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The iron's heating up on two guys the Oilers could certainly use

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04-23-2004, 12:33 AM
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Mizral
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The iron's heating up on two guys the Oilers could certainly use

... Tomas Kaberle & Nikolai Antropov.

Before you get on my case here, let me say that I think both guys are two things the Oilers could certainly use. With Kaberle, you've got a smooth skating puck moving defenseman who can make the first pass out of the zone as good as any defenseman in this league. Swifter on his skates, and while very soft in his own zone, isn't too bad positionally. Could be a fixture on the #1 PP unit, as well as play with a player like Smith or Brewer to make his lack of physical play a little less noticable.

Nikolai Antropov isn't as slow as you think. Yes, he can skate with the Oilers. The question is: Will he be healthy? Some may look at this as a big negative, but also realize that it lowers his trade value significantly at the same time. Quinn is clearly not happy with either of these guys, and Antropov in particular is huge and has fine offensive potential.

What would be the cost to acquire these guys? I'm not sure exactly, but I can't imagine it'd going to cost the farm. It might cost a guy like Jason Smith & a guy like Chimera - I really don't think it'd be much more at all.

While they are both looking terrible at the moment, remember last year Kaberle scored I believe 40+ points, and Antropov was showing signs of being a very strong 2nd line centreman. Heck, at the very least with these guys, you're getting a top 4 puck moving defenseman and some size (and a mean streak) on the 3rd line. Those are team needs anyways.

Might be a potential move to look into at the draft for Kevin Lowe & the rest of the Oilers front office. I'm sure Ferguson Jr. will be all ears.

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04-23-2004, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
... Tomas Kaberle & Nikolai Antropov.

Before you get on my case here, let me say that I think both guys are two things the Oilers could certainly use. With Kaberle, you've got a smooth skating puck moving defenseman who can make the first pass out of the zone as good as any defenseman in this league. Swifter on his skates, and while very soft in his own zone, isn't too bad positionally. Could be a fixture on the #1 PP unit, as well as play with a player like Smith or Brewer to make his lack of physical play a little less noticable.

Nikolai Antropov isn't as slow as you think. Yes, he can skate with the Oilers. The question is: Will he be healthy? Some may look at this as a big negative, but also realize that it lowers his trade value significantly at the same time. Quinn is clearly not happy with either of these guys, and Antropov in particular is huge and has fine offensive potential.

What would be the cost to acquire these guys? I'm not sure exactly, but I can't imagine it'd going to cost the farm. It might cost a guy like Jason Smith & a guy like Chimera - I really don't think it'd be much more at all.

While they are both looking terrible at the moment, remember last year Kaberle scored I believe 40+ points, and Antropov was showing signs of being a very strong 2nd line centreman. Heck, at the very least with these guys, you're getting a top 4 puck moving defenseman and some size (and a mean streak) on the 3rd line. Those are team needs anyways.

Might be a potential move to look into at the draft for Kevin Lowe & the rest of the Oilers front office. I'm sure Ferguson Jr. will be all ears.
I think it would take a lot more than Smith and Chimera to nab Antropov and Kaberle. They've both been fairly dismal this year but I don't think that lowers their trade value down that far. In any event, I'd definitely make that deal if the Leafs came knocking. I'd be willing to throw our 2nd rounder in as well if that deal was on the table. Kaberle is exactly what this team needs and would look stellar paired up with Brewer IMO. I just don't think it'll happen without Brewer going the other way though..

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04-23-2004, 12:47 AM
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We don't want guys like that, we want a truly skilled #1 center. The last thing I want to see is a whole bunch of lateral trades.

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04-23-2004, 12:48 AM
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Wowzers, if only the Leafs fans on the board could control transactions. Antropov and Kaberle must currently be the most hated two individuals in Canada..

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04-23-2004, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
We don't want guys like that, we want a truly skilled #1 center. The last thing I want to see is a whole bunch of lateral trades.
But would you do a Smith for Kaberle deal? I certainly would.. Kaberle has had an awful year but he brings a whole different skillset to the Oilers blueline that only Bergeron can match right now.

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04-23-2004, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
Wowzers, if only the Leafs fans on the board could control transactions. Antropov and Kaberle must currently be the most hated two individuals in Canada..
What did I miss inspector gadget? Did those two cost the Leafs the game tonight or something?

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04-23-2004, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
What did I miss inspector gadget? Did those two cost the Leafs the game tonight or something?
Judging from the reaction on the Leafs' board I'd say so.. I actually didn't see the game but my Go Go Gadget Sensor is pointing in Antropov and Kaberle's direction! Apparently the winning goal went off Nik Antropov's skate and Kaberle was directly responsible for 2 of the Flyers goals.

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04-23-2004, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
Wowzers, if only the Leafs fans on the board could control transactions. Antropov and Kaberle must currently be the most hated two individuals in Canada..
What about Lalime?

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04-23-2004, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
But would you do a Smith for Kaberle deal? I certainly would.. Kaberle has had an awful year but he brings a whole different skillset to the Oilers blueline that only Bergeron can match right now.
That's the whole thing, maybe Bergeron can do what Kaberle would be doing here.

Marc-Andre Bergeron, D 54 9-17-26 +13 26pims 17:37
Tomas Kaberle, D 71 3-28-31 +16 18pims 23:11

MAB was really kicking butt at the end of the year and he'll probably be making about $1M less (guessing here). We could use the extra money for Nedved or another #1 center.

I don't dislike the guy, he'd be a good player to have, I just don't think we need to make that deal right now. Before Bergeron broke out it would have been a helluva deal though.

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04-23-2004, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#2
What about Lalime?
I feel bad for all the Sens, if I hadn't gone into a hockey pool and taken two Leafs I woulda been cheering like hell for them even though they are a bit on the sissy side.

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04-23-2004, 01:00 AM
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Leafs are low on quality young players. I doubt they'd trade aways two of the few they have. They certainly won't trade both for Chimera and Smith. Did you mean one for Chimera and Smith, Mizral?


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04-23-2004, 01:05 AM
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Cerebral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
That's the whole thing, maybe Bergeron can do what Kaberle would be doing here.

Marc-Andre Bergeron, D 54 9-17-26 +13 26pims 17:37
Tomas Kaberle, D 71 3-28-31 +16 18pims 23:11

MAB was really kicking butt at the end of the year and he'll probably be making about $1M less (guessing here). We could use the extra money for Nedved or another #1 center.

I don't dislike the guy, he'd be a good player to have, I just don't think we need to make that deal right now. Before Bergeron broke out it would have been a helluva deal though.
True.. Kaberle actually makes more money than I thought as well (he's at $2.75 million/year now). However, that's likely equal to or possibly less than what Smith will earn and I believe we have the cash to possibly keep Nedved and Smith (if he has reasonable contract demands). Also keep in mind that this was a major off year for Kaberle and that he's scored around 45 points in 82 games for his career. His best season he managed 82 11-36-47. You're probably right though, Bergeron will be a much cheaper alternative (I'm guessing he doesn't get too much as a RFA in the off-season) and he is already in an Oilers jersey. I'm just really eager to see our PP creep out of the basement for a peek at the other teams..

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04-23-2004, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
I'm just really eager to see our PP creep out of the basement for a peek at the other teams..
You and me both. God I hope there isn't a lockout, I have no idea what winter would be like without hockey

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04-23-2004, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
You and me both. God I hope there isn't a lockout, I have no idea what winter would be like without hockey
It actually wouldn't kill me if they started broadcasting a lot more Junior/AHL games. It definitely wouldn't be the same though and I don't have enough Oilers games taped to last me more than a week. It would be kind of humorous to watch a lockout last for 2 years and see how many Leafs players are still alive when the dust settles though!

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04-23-2004, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
We don't want guys like that, we want a truly skilled #1 center. The last thing I want to see is a whole bunch of lateral trades.
If there's one thing Antropov is, it's "truly skilled". He has an unbelievable skill set...combine this with his size and grit and the potential, at least, is truly mouthwatering. He needs to smarten up, though, and I'm not sure Craig MacTavish is going to be the guy that does that.

I also suggest avoiding Kaberle...he is due for a big, $3.5 million-plus settlement at the arbitration table.

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04-23-2004, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit

I also suggest avoiding Kaberle...he is due for a big, $3.5 million-plus settlement at the arbitration table.
Even after his fairly sub-par season? I guess they unfortunately look at a bigger timeline than one year..

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04-23-2004, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Cerebral
Even after his fairly sub-par season? I guess they unfortunately look at a bigger timeline than one year..
I'm talking about his crappy season, unfortunately.

Bryan Berard last year: 80 games, 38 points, completely one-dimensional offensive play. He was awarded well north of $3 million by by some retarded arbitrator (I forget the exact figure)...I'd expect similar idiotic dollars for Kaberle. If they *do* look at a longer timeline...well then, that's even worse.

(I have little respect for the arbitration process)

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04-23-2004, 05:24 AM
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Kaberle maybe, antropov however is one hit away from being bobby orr. No thanks, too brittle.

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04-23-2004, 08:15 AM
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antropov is not a first line centre right now. We have Horcoff, Reasoner, and Stoll who each perform a specific role as the 2nd through 4th line. Antropov does not replace any of these guys except possibly Horcoff. As said earlier, this is a lateral move at best. If the leafs would take Horcoff and a little bit, then it makes sense.

As for Kaberle, I am one of his biggest fans. Lowe likes to buy low and sell high so a Staios + Pisani for Kaberle could be something he throws out to Ferguson. I would luv it but don't see it happening.

for a view on how Leaf fans currently feel about kaberle:

http://mb3.theinsiders.com/ftorontom...tart=1&stop=20


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04-23-2004, 10:21 AM
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I too...

...see the value in Kaberle and Antropov however I would not trade for either one UNLESS we only traded players we can easily afford to lose - Isbister, etc. - and the Leafs won't go for that.

Antropov is very brittle and given the continual hype on this guy I would expect that one, good, healthy year would lead to astronomical contract demands.

Kaberle is already making a bundle and is a pretty soft player - we already had Poti here and we saw how a Poti/Brewer tandem worked .

Both players are VERY skilled to be sure, however I only have room for them in my hockey pools. I would simply hate to give up established warriors, knowing full well the value we get from them, for two players with major upside/major deficiency problems. Like I say though - we get them cheap and I am in...

Isbister & draft pick FOR Antropov

is a trade that works for me. Our question mark with huge upside for their question mark with huge upside.

IF we are going to trade anything of REAL value to the Leafs then I would prefer we go the old fashioned route and pick up their young guys/prospects who:

-- have all the upside
-- lack all the established weaknesses

Which means we go for some grouping of Colaiacovo, Steen, Bell, Harrison, Wellwood, Stajan and, oddly enough, Antropov (if we can get him cheap enough)

Of those players the ones with real / good / moderate value (respectively) are:

Cola, Steen, Stajan / Antropov (injury history) / Bell, Harrison, Wellwood

When you think about it the permutations of a trade between Edmonton and TO are endless. Brewer and Cola could easily be principals in a trade between the two teams (some kind of blockbuster)... and that is a trade that would definitely interest me.


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04-23-2004, 11:10 AM
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What would be the cost to acquire these guys? I'm not sure exactly, but I can't imagine it'd going to cost the farm. It might cost a guy like Jason Smith & a guy like Chimera - I really don't think it'd be much more at all.
Smith and Chimera for Kaberle and Antropov?

Why don't you explain how this deal helps Toronto?

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04-23-2004, 11:19 AM
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I was actually looking at Kaberle alone for Smith & Chimera, sorry about that. It was kind of late when I made the post

YKOil - great idea on Isbister. Izzy seems exactly like the guy the Leafs would love to have. And he fits in with the team I think - north/south good skating big man. He's fairly young too.

Perhaps something like Smith, Isbister, and Philadelphia's 1st round pick for Kaberle & Antropov? I guess it depends on Kaberle's arbitration, but I somehow don't think he's gonna get a Berard-like settlement, BES.

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04-23-2004, 12:17 PM
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Why not? Arbitrators continue to award stupid money to easily exploited, one-dimensional d-men. It happened with Poti and Berard last summer, it'll happen with Kaberle and Gonchar this year.

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04-25-2004, 10:40 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
If there's one thing Antropov is, it's "truly skilled". He has an unbelievable skill set...combine this with his size and grit and the potential, at least, is truly mouthwatering. He needs to smarten up, though, and I'm not sure Craig MacTavish is going to be the guy that does that.

I also suggest avoiding Kaberle...he is due for a big, $3.5 million-plus settlement at the arbitration table.

Typical tainted view of big players, everyone sitting around drooling over the "skilled 6'5" center," as the REAL skill guys float around the waiver wire, until someone gives them a chance.....

What has AnDROPov ever done to deserve all the hype, he can skate I can admit that but skill, come on.....no more skilled than any average nhl'er.

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04-25-2004, 11:18 AM
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Antropov is a big stiff. A big brittle stiff. The Laffs can keep him. As for Kaberle, he is too similar to Poti for my tastes. We need to use our available assets to improve at centre and get a legitimate goalie.

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