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Do the recent trades change your opinions on Burke?

View Poll Results: Has your opinion on Burkie changed?
Yes - I shouldn't have been so hard on him. 23 10.70%
No - He's still screwed us with the draft picks. 22 10.23%
Perhaps - The trades mean I'll give him some more time before I get mad at him. 49 22.79%
Heck no! - I've always been a Burke hater. 8 3.72%
Heck no! - I've always supported Burke and want to give him time. 113 52.56%
Voters: 215. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-02-2010, 05:15 PM
  #101
My Sweet Shadow
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I was a huge supporter of bringing in Burke as our GM, yet lately, I was beginning to question that belief. Was he just all talk? Would he just roll the dice on the Kessel trade and hope it's enough? These trades proved to me that he can walk the walk and is willing to make whatever move he feels will make this team better in the future.

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02-02-2010, 05:40 PM
  #102
Mess
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I think it doesn't matter at this point. We have $8.5 million on two goalies, and if Giguere plays to his old standards, it's worth it to have a $6.5 million goalie. If Gustavsson establishes himself and steals that job and only makes $2.5, who cares if the backup makes $6 million, you still have a top end goalie in net, and it's only for a year anyway.
My point is really this though ..

A $6.0 mil salaried forward is the equivalent of a Top 6 player at that pay and would be a big asset to a team, particularly our Leafs up front and would (barring injury) play in 82 games.

The difference is that while you dress 12 forwards you only ever dress 1 goalie per game.. So in games where Gustavsson will play that puts Giguere and his $6 mil contract on the bench, and of no use or effect to the outcome of that game. You only get the $6 mil benefit when he will play.

So a $ 6 mil forward for 82 games verses $6 mil Goalie for 50 games (Monster playing 32).. So those 32 games are lost to the Team which for all intents and purposes would be like a $6 mil forward missing 32 games to injury and only playing 50 where the $6 mil plays a factor in the outcome of a game next year.

By trading for Giguere for next season at $6 mil, that is $6 mil less that could have been invested in forward help and you only get the full benefit of that amount when the goalie actual plays..

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02-02-2010, 05:57 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
My point is really this though ..

A $6.0 mil salaried forward is the equivalent of a Top 6 player at that pay and would be a big asset to a team, particularly our Leafs up front and would (barring injury) play in 82 games.

The difference is that while you dress 12 forwards you only ever dress 1 goalie per game.. So in games where Gustavsson will play that puts Giguere and his $6 mil contract on the bench, and of no use or effect to the outcome of that game. You only get the $6 mil benefit when he will play.

So a $ 6 mil forward for 82 games verses $6 mil Goalie for 50 games (Monster playing 32).. So those 32 games are lost to the Team which for all intents and purposes would be like a $6 mil forward missing 32 games to injury and only playing 50 where the $6 mil plays a factor in the outcome of a game next year.

By trading for Giguere for next season at $6 mil, that is $6 mil less that could have been invested in forward help and you only get the full benefit of that amount when the goalie actual plays..
What year do you think BB is working toward for being a playoff team and solid cup contender? So he goes a bit weak up front next year, and gives playing time to the kids. Are you all for the kids getting some playing time? in July next year, he has another $6.5 million coming off the books. By then we have a better idea what Hanson, Kadri, Bozak, Kulemin, Kessel, Grabs are made of, and he canuse his money then. There's really nobody available anyway.

What comes off the books in 2011?
Kaberle $4.25
Giggy $6.5

With Schenn, Gunnarson, Bozak and Stahlberg as RFA's. I will guess that their combined cap hit will be lower than their current cap hit, unless they perform really well, and are effective 1st-2nd liners on this team.

but of course who knows what he does before then to bring in some forward depth.

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02-02-2010, 05:58 PM
  #104
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So a $ 6 mil forward for 82 games verses $6 mil Goalie for 50 games (Monster playing 32).. So those 32 games are lost to the Team which for all intents and purposes would be like a $6 mil forward missing 32 games to injury and only playing 50 where the $6 mil plays a factor in the outcome of a game next year.
forwards play 20 minutes/night. Goalies play 60-65 usually.

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02-02-2010, 06:25 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
My point is really this though ..

A $6.0 mil salaried forward is the equivalent of a Top 6 player at that pay and would be a big asset to a team, particularly our Leafs up front and would (barring injury) play in 82 games.

The difference is that while you dress 12 forwards you only ever dress 1 goalie per game.. So in games where Gustavsson will play that puts Giguere and his $6 mil contract on the bench, and of no use or effect to the outcome of that game. You only get the $6 mil benefit when he will play.

So a $ 6 mil forward for 82 games verses $6 mil Goalie for 50 games (Monster playing 32).. So those 32 games are lost to the Team which for all intents and purposes would be like a $6 mil forward missing 32 games to injury and only playing 50 where the $6 mil plays a factor in the outcome of a game next year.

By trading for Giguere for next season at $6 mil, that is $6 mil less that could have been invested in forward help and you only get the full benefit of that amount when the goalie actual plays..
You mean 2 mil? Blake is still a leaf if the trade doesn't happen and he eats up 4 mil of that 6 mil hypothetical.

If you can waive blake, why can't you waive Giguere for the same reason?

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02-02-2010, 07:37 PM
  #106
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You guys robbed Calgary blind and JSG move was perfect for this team. Always thought Burke was an arrogant jackass but he puts his money where his mouth is. You guys are lucky to have him.

BTW, Phaneuf looks very good tonight.

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02-02-2010, 08:03 PM
  #107
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I probably won't back him again unless the team climbs far out of the cellar. I thought a Kessel type move was a year too early. Right now it looks like they could have had Taylor Hall and Kessel for Kaberle and Kadri .
They haven't won the Phaneuf deal yet and it may be a while before that is clear. People need to chill on that. Dion hasn't played at an elite level in a couple of years
Having said all that I REALLY like the Giguere deal. I thought Blake and VT were both pretty much untradeable. I still can't believe that.
Need some good results though, not just new faces.

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02-02-2010, 09:52 PM
  #108
Faltorvo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
My point is really this though ..

A $6.0 mil salaried forward is the equivalent of a Top 6 player at that pay and would be a big asset to a team, particularly our Leafs up front and would (barring injury) play in 82 games.

The difference is that while you dress 12 forwards you only ever dress 1 goalie per game.. So in games where Gustavsson will play that puts Giguere and his $6 mil contract on the bench, and of no use or effect to the outcome of that game. You only get the $6 mil benefit when he will play.

So a $ 6 mil forward for 82 games verses $6 mil Goalie for 50 games (Monster playing 32).. So those 32 games are lost to the Team which for all intents and purposes would be like a $6 mil forward missing 32 games to injury and only playing 50 where the $6 mil plays a factor in the outcome of a game next year.

By trading for Giguere for next season at $6 mil, that is $6 mil less that could have been invested in forward help and you only get the full benefit of that amount when the goalie actual plays..
Sorry mess but your wrong on this one. If we spend 2m on a vet back up or say a 60/40 guy and the 4m Blake costs us. It works out as a cap wash.

Maybe it costs us an extra $0.750m to have Sjostrom taking Blakes spot, but so what.

I know your smarter and more intuitive then this.

BB was not going to sink Blake in the minors for two years. It just ain't heppnenenenen.

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02-02-2010, 09:53 PM
  #109
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forwards play 20 minutes/night. Goalies play 60-65 usually.
Good one.

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02-02-2010, 09:54 PM
  #110
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It's never changed. Always been a fan.

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02-02-2010, 09:56 PM
  #111
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I feel that Burke with his last two deals shows what a real GM does. He keeps the phone nearby and the lines of communication open with all other teams. Think of how many teams would be saying I'd have traded my second line for phaneuf etc.. its nice to see we knew who was available for a change.

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02-02-2010, 09:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by nuck View Post
I probably won't back him again unless the team climbs far out of the cellar. I thought a Kessel type move was a year too early. Right now it looks like they could have had Taylor Hall and Kessel for Kaberle and Kadri .
They haven't won the Phaneuf deal yet and it may be a while before that is clear. People need to chill on that. Dion hasn't played at an elite level in a couple of years
Having said all that I REALLY like the Giguere deal. I thought Blake and VT were both pretty much untradeable. I still can't believe that.
Need some good results though, not just new faces.
Easy, easy now, maybe DP was not matching his rookie season but do you think hockey Canada has him at the O summer camp if has fallen that far?

Like say Brewer, McCabe, Jovo cop, Hamhuis , Cobourn, Burns.

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02-02-2010, 09:59 PM
  #113
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My opinion isn't changing until I see what he does with Kaberle/Poni, and how he improves the forward core while maintaining the cap. I'm 50/50. Unlike some people who basically flip out when we lose or scream Stanley Cup when we win, I'll stay in the middle ground until I see more from him.

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02-02-2010, 10:03 PM
  #114
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forwards play 20 minutes/night. Goalies play 60-65 usually.
Touche, nice argument

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02-02-2010, 10:43 PM
  #115
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Burke was down, but he's a scrapper and he punched his way out of a corner with two great deals.

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02-03-2010, 11:11 AM
  #116
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Burke was down, but he's a scrapper and he punched his way out of a corner with two great deals.
He's acknowledged that he's needed to make moves, and he's tried to make moves. So it's great that he's finally been able to pull the trigger.

To be honest I'm quite surprised that so many people have maintained that they've always supported Burke; I'm pretty sure many of you guys were the same that were criticizing him a few months ago.

Glad to see more patience seems to be around.

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02-03-2010, 11:18 AM
  #117
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Nope. My opinion is still the same because of him giving up so many picks, especially two first rounders. If he can recoup some of those picks, we'll see but I see it as being very unlikely.

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02-03-2010, 12:36 PM
  #118
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I think the hockey gods have Burkies back. That's the only explanation that makes any sense to me.

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02-03-2010, 12:39 PM
  #119
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Didn't we read that Nonis did the Calgary trade and Burke did the Anaheim deal?

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02-03-2010, 12:42 PM
  #120
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Didn't we read that Nonis did the Calgary trade and Burke did the Anaheim deal?
Burke was quite surprised when Dregger told him about the Calgary deal?

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02-03-2010, 12:46 PM
  #121
Mess
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Didn't we read that Nonis did the Calgary trade and Burke did the Anaheim deal?
We did, however during the Press Conferences announcing the trades Burke said it was the other way around, and Nonis worked on Murray in Anaheim while Burke himself dealt with Sutter in Calgary..

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02-03-2010, 01:13 PM
  #122
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Didn't we read that Nonis did the Calgary trade and Burke did the Anaheim deal?
I'd bet they were both involved in both. Absurd to think they'd work seperately.

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02-03-2010, 01:20 PM
  #123
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Nonis is the man behind the curtain...

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02-03-2010, 02:21 PM
  #124
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There was a long period this season when i lost faith in burke. I thought he rushed the deal for phil (i thought this team was at least 2 years away from making that type of deal). I was really starting to think that a full draft and rebuild was going to be needed.
Without that option for another 2 years i was really starting to resent burke.

But i like his approach to building a team much better.

Drafting takes too long and is unpredictable - STEALING the players you want is faster, somewhat more predictable and i'm sure a whole lot of fun.

Burke should have gotten a standing O on Tuesday.

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02-03-2010, 02:36 PM
  #125
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To be honest I'm quite surprised that so many people have maintained that they've always supported Burke; I'm pretty sure many of you guys were the same that were criticizing him a few months ago.
isn't it possible to criticize him, yet still fully support him at the same time?

does supporting him mean blindly loving every move he makes?

my opinion of him hasn't changed. he loves to make big moves, loves the spotlight, loves to be the centre of attention. his overall results are pretty much average. i don't think there's much to choose between any of today's nhl general managers. they just have different personalities, and burke's style is certainly bombastic.

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