I happened to overhear a conversation involving Matt Cullen and Jussi Jokinen today. I managed to catch my train home (by a matter of seconds) from downtown Toronto. A gentleman on his blackberry mentioned trading Jussi Jokinen and Matt Cullen in a deal together as I got onto the train. As the train left the terminal, the gentleman turned his attention away from his conversation and continued to text msg the other 45 minutes home. I don't know who he was representing but he mentioned trading Jokinen and Cullen followed by we're trying to get into first or second. The train terminal is steps away from the Air Canada Center and I have no doubt that's where he came from. He also mentioned a female (in management). He looked a lot like Dave Nonis but after a closer look he resembled Jim Rutherford. Does Rutherford have a son involved in hockey operations? Anyway... he mentioned a deal involving Jokinen and Cullen and added that the deal could be announced later. He also mentioned that he couldn't afford to give up any more production from the offense. Just food for thought..
With due respect, I hope you either misheard or did not hear this at all. Trading Jokinen, who is giving us first line production at third line cost would be an absolute debacle. With the chemistry he has exhibited with Pitkanen, this move could single handedly kill our powerplay.
If Rutherford moves Jokinen, he should be fired immediately.
Maybe i'm the only with that opinion, but for me Jussi is part of this team core.
Not every day you can get player like Jokinen for nothing. Before stars of season, fans thinks he's good but he's not exactly top 6 winger. Now you know the answer. You can put Jussi everywhere and he will produce. Not to mention Jussi has great contract - he will put at least 50 points this season, next too... and he mades 1.7 per year. Larose contracts is 1.7 per too. Wow!
"I think the confidence has always been the big thing for me."
Jussi find home here. He wants to stay here. He works with Staal.
"It's like my first two years in Dallas when I played with Mike Modano," Jokinen said of playing with Staal. "I think those two guys are actually the same type of players. They're both really fast and have a good shot and really good hockey sense. I like to play with those kind of players."
Exactly what i think. Staal reminds me of Modano. I'm just sayin' people finds Staal stats and says yea, he's good but he's not that good. he's 70 points player with bad very bad contract. People just forgot too how good was Mike Modano in his prime - true first liner with tremendous two-way game, great leader, shut down opposite stars... i like this because this is my type player. Staal will put 100 points again but not more than once imo.
I'm glad to see Staal to be Carolina captain. I'm started to think he will be great captain for us just like was Ronny and Roddy.
Last edited by imayagainknowanson: 02-03-2010 at 04:58 AM.
That is his projected stat line for the year. Amazing stuff considering where he was slated to start the year. If he plays the rest of the year with Staal, then there is a chance he meets and exceeds those marks. His play post-Christmas has been immense and he shows no signs of slowing his pace.
What we could be watching here is a player who has simply never had the opportunity to play in the Top 2 lines showing that he belongs there.
Jokinen will see a significant raise on next year's $1.9M salary on the free agent market. We can't afford to pay that because we have to re-sign Whitney for two years (the first year because he'll still be a good player, the second year because we need to show loyalty by "rewarding" him for prior service--of course with a NTC) and maybe bring in a few more veterans who possess qualities such as grit and leadership.
Here's a way to look at it: Jokinen does not throw big hits. Cole does. As Staal needs Cole to open up space for him, Cole is a better fit. The recent chemistry between Staal and Jokinen is nice, but it pales in comparison to what Staal and Cole did in '05-'06.
You could get a good return for Jokinen considering his excellent play this season and last year's playoffs. He's already 26 and could be as old as 28 or 29 before the team is ready to contend again. Why waste years of paying him a big salary when you can move him for picks and prospects? I know, prospects and picks are a gamble, but consider this: Erik Cole was drafted with a 3rd round pick. If you trade Jokinen for a third rounder and maybe a young defenseman, you can get another Erik Cole. Wouldn't it be great for Staal to play with two Erik Coles?
Jokinen will see a significant raise on next year's $1.9M salary on the free agent market. We can't afford to pay that because we have to re-sign Whitney for two years (the first year because he'll still be a good player, the second year because we need to show loyalty by "rewarding" him for prior service--of course with a NTC) and maybe bring in a few more veterans who possess qualities such as grit and leadership.
Here's a way to look at it: Jokinen does not throw big hits. Cole does. As Staal needs Cole to open up space for him, Cole is a better fit. The recent chemistry between Staal and Jokinen is nice, but it pales in comparison to what Staal and Cole did in '05-'06.
You could get a good return for Jokinen considering his excellent play this season and last year's playoffs. He's already 26 and could be as old as 28 or 29 before the team is ready to contend again. Why waste years of paying him a big salary when you can move him for picks and prospects? I know, prospects and picks are a gamble, but consider this: Erik Cole was drafted with a 3rd round pick. If you trade Jokinen for a third rounder and maybe a young defenseman, you can get another Erik Cole. Wouldn't it be great for Staal to play with two Erik Coles?
So, here is my proposal:
To BOS:
Jokinen, Pitkanen, 2nd
To CAR:
Ryder, Wideman, 3rd
I see what you're saying here, but I'd point out few things.
Jokinen might be due to a raise, but is that so big reason to get rid of him? You cannot separate his pros/cons (lack of hitting/Staal chemistry) without looking at the whole package overall.
Is the salary of, say, $2.5M-3.5/per so much of an overpayment for a player who is; capable to play both center/wing, contribute well in any of the 1st-3rd lines, is in his prime when 28yo, a solid 50-60pt guy, etc. If somebody else once had a better chemistry with Staal, does that make Jokinen a good riddance? You don't pump into these "dynamic duos" that often to begin with.
I doubt Jokinen would get anything close to $4M and if he did, then he's had a good year (next season). So, what would be wrong then with a proven winger, with solid point totals, in his prime, capable of covering different roles, clutch in playoffs, chemistry with Carolina's core players, etc.?
I mean, if he could get you a reasonable return, the trade is justified, but other that that, he seems to have some considerable upside especially for a small market team such as Hurricanes.
I see what you're saying here, but I'd point out few things.
Jokinen might be due to a raise, but is that so big reason to get rid of him? You cannot separate his pros/cons (lack of hitting/Staal chemistry) without looking at the whole package overall.
Is the salary of, say, $2.5M-3.5/per so much of an overpayment for a player who is; capable to play both center/wing, contribute well in any of the 1st-3rd lines, is in his prime when 28yo, a solid 50-60pt guy, etc. If somebody else once had a better chemistry with Staal, does that make Jokinen a good riddance? You don't pump into these "dynamic duos" that often to begin with.
I doubt Jokinen would get anything close to $4M and if he did, then he's had a good year (next season). So, what would be wrong then with a proven winger, with solid point totals, in his prime, capable of covering different roles, clutch in playoffs, chemistry with Carolina's core players, etc.?
I mean, if he could get you a reasonable return, the trade is justified, but other that that, he seems to have some considerable upside especially for a small market team such as Hurricanes.
I agree with you 100%. I probably should have put a tag under my post.
I was riding the bus home the other day and we picked up a gentlemen near the RBC Center. He happened to sit down in the seat next to me as the bus was quite full. Now this man was texting away like a maniac for the rest of the ride home. At one point I let curiosity get the best of me, and I happened to glance down at his Droid to see what the last text message he had written said. And there it was:
I happened to overhear a conversation involving Matt Cullen and Jussi Jokinen today. I managed to catch my train home (by a matter of seconds) from downtown Toronto. A gentleman on his blackberry mentioned trading Jussi Jokinen and Matt Cullen in a deal together as I got onto the train. As the train left the terminal, the gentleman turned his attention away from his conversation and continued to text msg the other 45 minutes home. I don't know who he was representing but he mentioned trading Jokinen and Cullen followed by we're trying to get into first or second. The train terminal is steps away from the Air Canada Center and I have no doubt that's where he came from. He also mentioned a female (in management). He looked a lot like Dave Nonis but after a closer look he resembled Jim Rutherford. Does Rutherford have a son involved in hockey operations? Anyway... he mentioned a deal involving Jokinen and Cullen and added that the deal could be announced later. He also mentioned that he couldn't afford to give up any more production from the offense. Just food for thought..
Not only do Nonis and Rutherford not look alike they are about 20 years apart in age. The B.S. light is now flashing.
Maybe they were talking about Olli Jokinen who was traded yesterday? Maybe the Rangers were talking about Cullen again and went with Olli instead. You never know but I would be upset if they traded any of the Fins. They won't be happy next preseason when we're over there and none of them are on our team anymore.
Maybe they were talking about Olli Jokinen who was traded yesterday? Maybe the Rangers were talking about Cullen again and went with Olli instead. You never know but I would be upset if they traded any of the Fins. They won't be happy next preseason when we're over there and none of them are on our team anymore.
This seems quite likely to me. Not sure I saw the Rags making much of a play at Cullen and even less so now that they have Olli.
Based on JRs comments over the last couple of days, we know this deal would be a non starter. he isnt looking to take on an NHL player with a sizable NHL contract. He wants picks and prospects. Both of those assets are far more tradeable than a guy like Bernier. I think, based on comments, JR is looking to stock the cupboard with assets so he can make deals for NHL players when the time is right, like 2011-2012 when the Canes could be ready for a playoff run again. I wouldnt be suprised to see JR take picks in the 2011 draft.
I would guess, based on the current financial situation in Raleigh, if JR was taking money back on board the price of Cullen would go up slightly. So whatever the baseline worth of Cullen is, Vancouver would have to go above it if they want JR to take Wellwood back. It probably wouldnt be worth much but i could see JR asking for an extra pick if he had to take Wellwood back even if it was just a 5th rounder
I would guess, based on the current financial situation in Raleigh, if JR was taking money back on board the price of Cullen would go up slightly. So whatever the baseline worth of Cullen is, Vancouver would have to go above it if they want JR to take Wellwood back. It probably wouldnt be worth much but i could see JR asking for an extra pick if he had to take Wellwood back even if it was just a 5th rounder
I think that's one thing a lot of people don't take into account too often. As it is Cullen's value might not be overly stellar and a contract player, Wellwood in this case, may have some value themselves. But if a team is selling at the deadline requesting the team that is selling to take back salary in the process only increases the asking price of the player being traded. There is no motivation for the team that is taking on a salary to want to do so, especially if they have kids in their system that they can prettymuch just plug into whatever hole is opened in the lineup. This goes doubly so when you're talking about a small/growing market team that is still struggling at the gate due to a poor season.
It's why I don't doubt that Wallin is getting back a 2nd rounder even though his actual value might be a 3rd or 4th. San Jose HAS to offload some salary to make the trade work and that likely is going to be Shelley who has no value in himself. Instead of a 3rd and Shelley, the Sharks have to pay up a 2nd round pick. Much like the situation if the Canes were to trade Cullen to Vancouver. Wellwood might have some marginal value in and of himself, but while Cullen might be worth a late 2nd/early 3rd on his own Vancouver will have to add value to the trade to convince Carolina to go through with it with Wellwood as part of the package. There is absolutely no reason for Carolina to make the trade otherwise when they feel they can get a similar pick/prospect package with no salary coming back from elsewhere.
I realize that the speculation in this thread is a dead horse now, but I wanted to talk about this line of thinking:
Quote:
Originally Posted by caniacho
If Rutherford moves Jokinen, he should be fired immediately.
There has to be a qualifier on this statement. It's just pretty darn silly to make such a grand statement without it. For instance, would you want Rutherford fired if he traded Jokinen for...oh I dunno, how about Jordan Eberle? Any really promising young talent...maybe Colton Teubert, since he's been the topic of discussion lately?
The point is everyone has their price, and to say that JR should be fired simply for trading Jokinen ignores that simple reality. C'mon folks...let's be reasonable here.
tag under my post.
