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Leafs need a true #1 Centre

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Old
02-04-2010, 10:49 AM
  #51
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We're not getting a #1 Centre until (if even then) July 1st..

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Old
02-04-2010, 10:50 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schennanigans View Post
Plekanec, Peverley, Pavelski, and Jordan Staal are some guys I would look at.

I would make a deal for someone like one of these guys.
Don't even talk about Staal.

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Old
02-04-2010, 10:53 AM
  #53
bobermay
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
With what cap space? They have under 15M left to sign 10 players.
Stalberg(0.850)-Marleau(7)-Kessel(5.4)
Kulemin(2.4*)-Kadri(1.75)-Hanson(0.950*)
Cooke*(2.0*)-Bozak(3.725)-Sjostrom(0.750
Rosehill(.513)-Primeau(0.900*)-Orr(1)
Wallin(0.750*), John Mitchell (0.750*)

Phaneuf(6.5)-Schenn(2.975)
Kaberle(4.25)-Komisarek(4.5)
Beauchemin(3.8)-Gunnarsson(0.800)
Oreskovic(0.500*)

Gigeure(6)
Gustavsson(2.0*)

ROSTER SIZE 23
SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $61,212,500
BONUSES $6,035,000
CAP SPACE $-2,500

I think that it COULD be worked out. That said, I think Marleau is a pipedream.

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Old
02-04-2010, 10:59 AM
  #54
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[QUOTE=bobermay;
Bozak(3.725)
CAP SPACE $-2,500

I think that it COULD be worked out. That said, I think Marleau is a pipedream.[/QUOTE]

It could clearly be worked out by putting Bozak in the minors, his contract is disgusting.

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Old
02-04-2010, 11:02 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobermay View Post
Stalberg(0.850)-Marleau(7)-Kessel(5.4)
Kulemin(2.4*)-Kadri(1.75)-Hanson(0.950*)
Cooke*(2.0*)-Bozak(3.725)-Sjostrom(0.750
Rosehill(.513)-Primeau(0.900*)-Orr(1)
Wallin(0.750*), John Mitchell (0.750*)

Phaneuf(6.5)-Schenn(2.975)
Kaberle(4.25)-Komisarek(4.5)
Beauchemin(3.8)-Gunnarsson(0.800)
Oreskovic(0.500*)

Gigeure(6)
Gustavsson(2.0*)

ROSTER SIZE 23
SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $61,212,500
BONUSES $6,035,000
CAP SPACE $-2,500

I think that it COULD be worked out. That said, I think Marleau is a pipedream.
Explain to me exactly why Marleau would sign with the Leafs lol? To play with his old coach? I think he'd rather go play for the GM that drafted him

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Old
02-04-2010, 11:04 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobermay View Post
Stalberg(0.850)-Marleau(7)-Kessel(5.4)
Kulemin(2.4*)-Kadri(1.75)-Hanson(0.950*)
Cooke*(2.0*)-Bozak(3.725)-Sjostrom(0.750
Rosehill(.513)-Primeau(0.900*)-Orr(1)
Wallin(0.750*), John Mitchell (0.750*)

Phaneuf(6.5)-Schenn(2.975)
Kaberle(4.25)-Komisarek(4.5)
Beauchemin(3.8)-Gunnarsson(0.800)
Oreskovic(0.500*)

Gigeure(6)
Gustavsson(2.0*)

ROSTER SIZE 23
SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $61,212,500
BONUSES $6,035,000
CAP SPACE $-2,500

I think that it COULD be worked out. That said, I think Marleau is a pipedream.
where's grabovski lol? you think he's just going to disappear?

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Old
02-04-2010, 11:06 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jevko View Post
Toronto is in dire need of a young #1 centre for the present and future, who do you think they should pursue and how would they get him?
not sure if its been mentioned. but Horcoff is available, and it wouldn't cost you too much

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Old
02-04-2010, 11:10 AM
  #58
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Aren't the leafs gettign rick Nash ? Maybe he can move to the middle ?

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Old
02-04-2010, 11:20 AM
  #59
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Kaberle, Ponikarovsky - Briere,1st, Patrick Maroon

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Old
02-04-2010, 11:21 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobermay View Post
Stalberg(0.850)-Marleau(7)-Kessel(5.4)
Kulemin(2.4*)-Kadri(1.75)-Hanson(0.950*)
Cooke*(2.0*)-Bozak(3.725)-Sjostrom(0.750
Rosehill(.513)-Primeau(0.900*)-Orr(1)
Wallin(0.750*), John Mitchell (0.750*)

Phaneuf(6.5)-Schenn(2.975)
Kaberle(4.25)-Komisarek(4.5)
Beauchemin(3.8)-Gunnarsson(0.800)
Oreskovic(0.500*)

Gigeure(6)
Gustavsson(2.0*)

ROSTER SIZE 23
SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $61,212,500
BONUSES $6,035,000
CAP SPACE $-2,500

I think that it COULD be worked out. That said, I think Marleau is a pipedream.
you're listing it as over $4mill over the current salary cap. How "could" that be worked out? Try putting together a lineup which is actually under the salary cap and see what it looks like.

Keep in mind that the NHLPA has not extended the CBA yet and have until September of 2010 to extend it - and as always, expect to see it extended last minute, which makes the 2010-2011 season one that automatically counts all bonuses (like we saw last year in the NHL). A team would have to start the season with a roster that is no higher than the league's salary cap, all bonuses included. Try putting that together, and see what the lineup looks like, and keep in mind that not every contract signing/extension will fall into the most conservative numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
We didn't have it to get Dion either, but Burke worked that

All you need (in the New NHL) is cap, cap is as important as high draft picks.

Plus we have Kaberle, thus Kaberle + cap-space = top line Centre (overpaid)
I agree that cap space is as valuable as high draft picks in this era. But you have to also keep in mind that cap space has to be managed long-term as well, otherwise you lose flexibility to keep a strong team, as any team that does do well will inevitably lose their quality depth to those other teams that end up having that extra cap space. To stay competitive, you need those high draft picks - or a quality scouting/development system - to keep replenishing the lineup with cheap ELC type contracts. This counters the inevitable increases for current players and the diminishing cap space that comes with it.

Toronto is in a tough spot right now, IMO. They don't have a lot of quality depth coming up through the system, while their management team hasn't exactly been known for strong drafting/player development, and they've already given up some top picks. Meanwhile, they continue to plug up their cap space with long-term deals. Keep adding to that, and you quickly become a top heavy team where you have to hope that every contract you dish out lives up to their cap hits. That's not that they're in a situation right now that they can't improve on - but they have to careful with how many more of these big longterm deals they tie up, before the talent pipeline gets stronger.

Calgary is a perfect example of this cap mismanagement. Sutter even talked foolishly about this a year ago and it hurt him. I believe his exact comments were that all you need is grade-10 math to figure out the salary cap. Meanwhile, he continually depleted his organization's future, brought in big contracts, gave those raises to the young talent he had, and had a team with questionable depth where you have to hope that every one of those big contracts plays to their cap level. When they didn't, they become cap casualties - going to teams that have the space (for now) to take them on, and will do it cheaply since most teams don't have that kind of flexibility. What you don't get back is high picks or longterm assets - you get salary dumps and rentals, like we saw with Phaneuf.

Toronto has to be careful not to fall into this same cycle - and IMO they're not in great shape yet. The quicker Toronto maximizes their cap space while not having those cheap quality contracts coming up through the system, the quicker Phaneuf needs to prove he's worth that $6.5mill/yr cap hit... otherwise, don't be surprised to see the same situation you just saw with Calgary - where they have dump that potential to get some depth throughout the rest of the lineup.

Cap space is definitely valuable, but without managing it effectively long-term it doesn't do a team much good.

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Old
02-04-2010, 11:50 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Miller91 View Post
It could clearly be worked out by putting Bozak in the minors, his contract is disgusting.
A lot of that is in Bonuses he likely wont reach though

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Old
02-04-2010, 11:55 AM
  #62
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The Leafs do need a number one centre. They have some assets that can be dangled for a number 1 centre but it would be smart to keep them (Kaberle, Kadri and Schenn). When July 1st hits i think there are only 2 possible number 1 centres in Marleau and maybe Plekanecs. I dont see San Jose or Montreal letting any of those guys go.

So the only way the Leafs can get a number 1 centre is develop one or trade for one. They dont have one in the system at the moment and they dont have enough pieces to warrant trading their young assets for one.

I think the Leafs should try to acquire young, underachieivng second line centres with potential. Two guys come to mind, Mueller and Cogliano. It has been beaten to death but i think either player can be available and had without giving up a player like Kaberle, Kadri or Schenn. I wouldnt mind moving Grabovski and try to buy low on Cogliano and Mueller. They can be your 1-2 centre punch and if someone improves their play then you could have a number 1 centre or two very good number 2 centres. I think that is the best option for the Leafs if they can get 2 underachiving players at a low cost.

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Old
02-04-2010, 12:11 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
you're listing it as over $4mill over the current salary cap. How "could" that be worked out? Try putting together a lineup which is actually under the salary cap and see what it looks like.
Bozak and Finger sent down.

Kulemin - Kadri - Kessel
Stempniak - Grabovski - Stalberg
Hanson - Mitchell - Sjostrom
Rosehill - Primeau - Orr

Phaneuf - Kaberle
Komisarek - Beauchemin
Gunnarsson -Schenn

Gigurere
Gustavsson

Assume Kulemin at 1.75 (Stajan's last extension), Stempniak at 1.5, Hanson at 925k, Primeau at 900k, Mitchell at 750k, and Jonas at 2.0

SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $50,812,500
BONUSES $3,185,000
CAP SPACE $9,172,500

If the Leafs are going to get a 1st line Centre, you can bet the bank that Grabovski is out of here, freeing up another 2.9M.

And in 2011, we'll see Bozak up at a LOT less than 3.8M, and Giguere at approaching half of what he's making now. On top of this. Aulie should be ready to play 3rd pair minutes by then, leaving the Leafs able to trade one of Komisarek, Beauchemin, or Kaberle (hopefully one of the first two) and save another ~4M.

The Leafs are in a more than decent cap situation for this year. And a fantastic one in 2011.

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Old
02-04-2010, 12:12 PM
  #64
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Kaberle for Krejci and Bostons 1st would be a sensible move for toronto and Boston.

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02-04-2010, 12:13 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ncredible View Post
I know.. RYAN GETZLAF. ok seriously, I see the Leafs making a hard push to sign Marleau in the off season.
Same here. Sign Marleau for a couple of years until Kadri can take over.

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02-04-2010, 12:17 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Reverse Flying V View Post
Bozak and Finger sent down.

Kulemin - Kadri - Kessel
Stempniak - Grabovski - Stalberg
Hanson - Mitchell - Sjostrom
Rosehill - Primeau - Orr

Phaneuf - Kaberle
Komisarek - Beauchemin
Gunnarsson -Schenn

Gigurere
Gustavsson

Assume Kulemin at 1.75 (Stajan's last extension), Stempniak at 1.5, Hanson at 925k, Primeau at 900k, Mitchell at 750k, and Jonas at 2.0

SALARY CAP $56,800,000
PAYROLL $50,812,500
BONUSES $3,185,000
CAP SPACE $9,172,500

If the Leafs are going to get a 1st line Centre, you can bet the bank that Grabovski is out of here, freeing up another 2.9M.

And in 2011, we'll see Bozak up at a LOT less than 3.8M, and Giguere at approaching half of what he's making now.
that's a realistic roster... but I don't see them being very good anytime soon, and likely to miss the playoffs again next year... Kadri isn't going to have a huge impact as a 19YO, and could actually be a bad move to throw him in that role (#1 center) as a rookie - who's the last 19YO rookie center that's done well in a 1st line role?

Can't see that team above being that good at least not for another 2-3 years.

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02-04-2010, 12:20 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
Kaberle for Krejci and Bostons 1st would be a sensible move for toronto and Boston.
kabs for bergeron would be even better and i can see boston moving bergeeron since they resigned savard and have kregci...and have colborne coming up ...and all reports say tehy want kabs..bergeron would be perfect for toronto hes young big ...great play maker...great 2way guy...and a leader

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02-04-2010, 12:27 PM
  #68
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Yet "#1 center" implies playing in all situations and playing a lot -- that's what #1 centers do. Brindy's barely an NHLer at this point, let alone taking big minutes.
but as i said in multiple posts in this thread i don't think they should go get a #1 center... they should get a vet to teach the kids instead and let them play alot... thats why i feel brindy is a good idea

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02-04-2010, 12:27 PM
  #69
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I think Ryan Kesler would be an ideal selection (if we're simply dreaming)....

He has the speed and skill to play with Kessel, and the size and defensive acumen to garner selke consideration. RFA at the end of the season and due for a sizable raise the Nucks may or may not have the cap flexibility to keep him in the wake of long term Sedin/Luongo deals. Having Cody Hodgson ready to make his NHL debut next year may also factor into the equation.

He could be our #1 pivot and shoulder a heavy defensive workload while we develop Kadri in his image.

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02-04-2010, 12:30 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
that's a realistic roster... but I don't see them being very good anytime soon, and likely to miss the playoffs again next year... Kadri isn't going to have a huge impact as a 19YO, and could actually be a bad move to throw him in that role (#1 center) as a rookie - who's the last 19YO rookie center that's done well in a 1st line role?

Can't see that team above being that good at least not for another 2-3 years.
Toews?

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Old
02-04-2010, 12:47 PM
  #71
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Toews?
yup... and Malkin... there are a few... Kadri does not belong with those guys though.

edit: my bad - Malkin was 20.

Toews was 19... but as a #1 center at 19, his team missed the playoffs... I'm guessing that's the case with most teams that carry 19 YO rookie centers as their #1 guy.

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Old
02-04-2010, 12:48 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by xicethug13x View Post
kabs for bergeron would be even better and i can see boston moving bergeeron since they resigned savard and have kregci...and have colborne coming up ...and all reports say tehy want kabs..bergeron would be perfect for toronto hes young big ...great play maker...great 2way guy...and a leader
The only thing I'd be concerned about is his history of injuries.

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but as i said in multiple posts in this thread i don't think they should go get a #1 center... they should get a vet to teach the kids instead and let them play alot... thats why i feel brindy is a good idea
You haven't watched Brind'Amour recently have you? The guy's got nothing left in the tank.

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Toews?
Tavares?

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Old
02-04-2010, 12:55 PM
  #73
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Kaberle for Krejci and Bostons 1st would be a sensible move for toronto and Boston.
Toronto would do that in a second...Boston wouldn't...

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Old
02-04-2010, 01:31 PM
  #74
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Can't see that team above being that good at least not for another 2-3 years.
Sure. Of course, they'd have some money to spend, and it remains to be seen how Burke will move money from D to the top 6.

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02-04-2010, 01:39 PM
  #75
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(no offense) lmao

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