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What to do with Gagne???

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Old
02-04-2010, 02:14 PM
  #26
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Realistically, unless Gagne asks for the moon, he'll be retiring a Flyer. For those of you saying loyalty be damned, you're talking about the organization that's loyal to a fault.

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02-04-2010, 02:22 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Gagne went through a 6 game slump, from Jan 19th at CBJ through Jan 28 at Atlanta. When he came back from injury, he had 13 points in the first 12 games back.....his only bad game being against Ottawa when he was a -5 and had 0 points. He now has 3 points in the last 3 games.

There you go guys......SIX ****ING GAME SLUMP and everyone is acting like the guy's career is over, he cant play hockey anymore and he is like the worst player on the team......WOW

Gagne's only issue this year is his shooting. His shooting percentage is 6% compared to an average between 12-14%. Otherwise, Gagne is completely fine.
Thank you!

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02-04-2010, 02:23 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Would make more sense to just get rid of Gagne and put someone in there who is worth 5 million wouldn't you agree?
Like who?

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Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
You're awfully adamant at defending a team that has had a pretty poor season all around considering we were supposed to be a Stanley Cup contender by all accounts. No one said Gagne was the worst player on the team. That distinction goes to Coburn (I don't count Cote, Tollefsen, or Syvret because they're not playing even close to a full season).

Why not just keep the whole team around because obviously they're all going to just 'snap out of it' is the old John Stevens argument. I think we're all just trying to find the sore spots to see if improvements can be made.

It's silly to defend every player at every position simply because he wears a Flyers jersey. Gagne and Hartnell are players I personally think are totally expendable at this point, because I believe there are better players on the trading block.

It's a shame both have NTCs.
You assume that I agreed that we were stanley cup contenders at the beginning of the year??? (I didnt for the record)

Plus, I am only defending Gagne....I wasnt defending Hartnell, I was debating whether this was a normal year for him, or a down year.

If there is a move out there that will improve this team I am all for it. I have yet to see anyone propose one that would improve the team, or that is remotely even possible??? I would be curious as to your ideas??

Teams dont win Cups when you continuously turn over the entire roster year after year....and when you make stupid moves like recalling Jones on entry waivers, and trading all your top draft picks....and picking up someone like Carle to compensate for all those stupid moves you made.

We had a team with great chemistry, that won in spite of its moronic coach, and went to the conference finals two seasons ago. Since then, they have completely turned over the roster and it has caused chemistry issues with this team, obviously. I dont think more wholesale changes are going to help at this point.

The biggest issue with this team was the coach in my opinion....that was fixed. There are still issues with this team, but we need to let the young guys like Richards, Carter, Giroux, JVR, Powe, etc. develop together. You also, however, need guys like Gagne around to bridge the gap between the young players and the veterans. Find me another LW on this team that is willing to step up and take Gagne's place and I will be more than happy to entertain moving him....Is that Hartnell? Is that JVR?? Maroon??? We saw what happened last time we relied on young guys too quickly.....

Who do you suggest we replace Hartnell and Gagne with that is on the trading block that we could conceivable get without first round picks or any prospects not in the NHL to trade?

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02-04-2010, 02:33 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Gagne went through a 6 game slump, from Jan 19th at CBJ through Jan 28 at Atlanta. When he came back from injury, he had 13 points in the first 12 games back.....his only bad game being against Ottawa when he was a -5 and had 0 points. He now has 3 points in the last 3 games.

There you go guys......SIX ****ING GAME SLUMP and everyone is acting like the guy's career is over, he cant play hockey anymore and he is like the worst player on the team......WOW

Gagne's only issue this year is his shooting. His shooting percentage is 6% compared to an average between 12-14%. Otherwise, Gagne is completely fine.
I disagree with shooting being his only issue. I haven't seen any type of play where I was reminded how fast Gagne is. People rag on Carter cause it looks like he doesn't try when hes skating, but Gagne is routinely beaten to pucks by players he should be beating. He flubs scoring chances left and right, he forces passes when he should just let the puck go, he doesn't win many board battles and he has a whopping 2 points on the powerplay.

I hope he makes me eat my words and breaks out here at some point and starts contributing. But at this point hes a shell of what he was last season, and hes not going to get any more durable in these upcoming years.

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02-04-2010, 02:37 PM
  #30
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This whole thread is one big facepalm. One poster said Gagne wouldn't even be worth it at a discount 3.5. One post even speculated in buying him out. Can't bare to read the rest. Bunch of kids... Gagne will score 30+ goals next season. Again.

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02-04-2010, 02:37 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Kambo View Post
Realistically, unless Gagne asks for the moon, he'll be retiring a Flyer. For those of you saying loyalty be damned, you're talking about the organization that's loyal to a fault.
Who is the last Flyer to spend his entire career in the orange and black?

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02-04-2010, 02:43 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
I disagree with shooting being his only issue. I haven't seen any type of play where I was reminded how fast Gagne is. People rag on Carter cause it looks like he doesn't try when hes skating, but Gagne is routinely beaten to pucks by players he should be beating. He flubs scoring chances left and right, he forces passes when he should just let the puck go, he doesn't win many board battles and he has a whopping 2 points on the powerplay.

I hope he makes me eat my words and breaks out here at some point and starts contributing. But at this point hes a shell of what he was last season, and hes not going to get any more durable in these upcoming years.
He has lost a bit of a step, absolutely....it may be permanent, it may be him still recovering from his injury this year. Abdominal and groin injuries, anything in that area, it takes time to recover from.

I dont see the same issues as you along the boards and what not....but who knows.

Again, 22 points in 31 games is not a shell of what he was....He just isnt finishing. He theoretically should have 13-15 goals at this point, which would put him at a PPG pace....He is still putting up assists to make up for the goals he isnt scoring.

Again, goals are down for Carter, Hartnell, etc. He isnt the only one.

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02-04-2010, 03:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Lomark View Post
This whole thread is one big facepalm. One poster said Gagne wouldn't even be worth it at a discount 3.5. One post even speculated in buying him out. Can't bare to read the rest. Bunch of kids... Gagne will score 30+ goals next season. Again.
I didn't suggest buying him out. The OP was wondering what could be done and I was pointing out that it's not an option. I don't see how thats speculating.

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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
He has lost a bit of a step, absolutely....it may be permanent, it may be him still recovering from his injury this year. Abdominal and groin injuries, anything in that area, it takes time to recover from.

I dont see the same issues as you along the boards and what not....but who knows.

Again, 22 points in 31 games is not a shell of what he was....He just isnt finishing. He theoretically should have 13-15 goals at this point, which would put him at a PPG pace....He is still putting up assists to make up for the goals he isnt scoring.

Again, goals are down for Carter, Hartnell, etc. He isnt the only one.
Like I said he isn't the problem, but hes part of it. Briere Gagne Hartnell Carter Richards, none of these guys are producing at the level they are capable of. But I'm much more concerned about Briere and Gagne because their lack of production could be a product of diminishing skills as much as injuries. Gagne's main contrtibutions have always been his finishing (hes never really created an awful lot on his own) and his defense. He is passing up shots to try to make passes and thats not his game. That is my primary concern with Gagne.

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02-04-2010, 03:03 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Who is the last Flyer to spend his entire career in the orange and black?
Therien had all but 11 games when we traded him in 03-04 and then brought him back in 05-06.

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02-04-2010, 03:12 PM
  #35
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2 mil absolute maximum.

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Old
02-04-2010, 03:12 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
I didn't suggest buying him out. The OP was wondering what could be done and I was pointing out that it's not an option. I don't see how thats speculating.

Like I said he isn't the problem, but hes part of it. Briere Gagne Hartnell Carter Richards, none of these guys are producing at the level they are capable of. But I'm much more concerned about Briere and Gagne because their lack of production could be a product of diminishing skills as much as injuries. Gagne's main contrtibutions have always been his finishing (hes never really created an awful lot on his own) and his defense. He is passing up shots to try to make passes and thats not his game. That is my primary concern with Gagne.
I agree, he isnt finishing....definitely an issue at the moment, but I hardly think the guy is done and not worth his salary anymore. He did have 30+ goals last year and is not "old" You dont just lose your hands overnight....His injuries have not had anything to do with his hands. He is probably pressing, lacking confidence and passing more because he feels that is where he can contribute while not scoring. Who knows?

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02-04-2010, 03:22 PM
  #37
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That some seasons ago he's been standing next to far post with his stick on ice and having Foppa shooting pucks into the net bouncing off Gagne's stick doesn't mean he should eat up 5mil off the salary cap.

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02-04-2010, 03:24 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I agree, he isnt finishing....definitely an issue at the moment, but I hardly think the guy is done and not worth his salary anymore. He did have 30+ goals last year and is not "old" You dont just lose your hands overnight....His injuries have not had anything to do with his hands. He is probably pressing, lacking confidence and passing more because he feels that is where he can contribute while not scoring. Who knows?
Mental issues are up to him to correct though. His hands were never really that great. Hes an ok passer and not much of a stick handler. I think getting him away from Richards would do a lot for him. Cannon forces a lot of things that aren't there, and generally tries to slow things down when scoring chances aren't there. I think Gagne might be better off with Carter and Briere because off the rush if Carter has it, its probably going on net and if Briere has it hes looking for the trailer he can hit with a pass from the right wing. I'm not saying hes done, but I'm also to the point where I'm questioning whether hes in a funk or if this is how hes going to be for the rest of his career.

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02-04-2010, 03:35 PM
  #39
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Offer him $3.5 and if he says no, part ways with him.

That's the cap, sadly.
Offer him 3. He likes it here in Philly. He has made enough money for a few lifetimes.

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02-04-2010, 03:43 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Mental issues are up to him to correct though. His hands were never really that great. Hes an ok passer and not much of a stick handler. I think getting him away from Richards would do a lot for him. Cannon forces a lot of things that aren't there, and generally tries to slow things down when scoring chances aren't there. I think Gagne might be better off with Carter and Briere because off the rush if Carter has it, its probably going on net and if Briere has it hes looking for the trailer he can hit with a pass from the right wing. I'm not saying hes done, but I'm also to the point where I'm questioning whether hes in a funk or if this is how hes going to be for the rest of his career.
Obviously its up to him. Hey, he actually looked pretty good with Carter for a handful of games a couple of years ago when it was Gagne/Carter/Upshall. The only problem with taking Gagne away from Richards is that with Giroux being our 3rd center, Richards gets all the shut-down assignments, as does Gagne.

I wouldnt mind trying this for a few games, however, then Richards cant be your shut down center.

Hartnell Richards Briere
Gagne Carter Powe/Giroux

I am glad Lavi was keeping lines intact for the most part, but its been a while. Switch things up for a bit to see if we can get Gagne going.

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02-04-2010, 03:50 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Obviously its up to him. Hey, he actually looked pretty good with Carter for a handful of games a couple of years ago when it was Gagne/Carter/Upshall. The only problem with taking Gagne away from Richards is that with Giroux being our 3rd center, Richards gets all the shut-down assignments, as does Gagne.

I wouldnt mind trying this for a few games, however, then Richards cant be your shut down center.

Hartnell Richards Briere
Gagne Carter Powe/Giroux

I am glad Lavi was keeping lines intact for the most part, but its been a while. Switch things up for a bit to see if we can get Gagne going.
If you put Richards with Powe and Hartnell I don't see why it can't be a shutdown line (which IMO is over rated for the regular season). Gagne Carter Briere could work out, and you leave the bottom 6 where they are. It might work, it might not but I think Laviolette has to try and toy around a bit before the olympic break here so we can get some consistency.

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02-04-2010, 03:53 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by RockinRiles View Post
That some seasons ago he's been standing next to far post with his stick on ice and having Foppa shooting pucks into the net bouncing off Gagne's stick doesn't mean he should eat up 5mil off the salary cap.
Go away, you have no clue what you are talking about.

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02-04-2010, 03:54 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
If you put Richards with Powe and Hartnell I don't see why it can't be a shutdown line (which IMO is over rated for the regular season). Gagne Carter Briere could work out, and you leave the bottom 6 where they are. It might work, it might not but I think Laviolette has to try and toy around a bit before the olympic break here so we can get some consistency.
Yeah, but then you are counting on JVR/Giroux/Asham to be your 2nd scoring line. They are too young to be relied on that much at this point, and Asham doesnt belong anywhere near a scoring line. You are not going to get enough points out of Hartnell Richards Powe, who I think would be a fine shut-down line.

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02-04-2010, 03:56 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Yeah, but then you are counting on JVR/Giroux/Asham to be your 2nd scoring line. They are too young to be relied on that much at this point, and Asham doesnt belong anywhere near a scoring line. You are not going to get enough points out of Hartnell Richards Powe, who I think would be a fine shut-down line.
They aren't getting enough points out of Gagne Richards and anyone so gotta try something. I don't want Powe anywhere near Carter.

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02-04-2010, 04:08 PM
  #45
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They aren't getting enough points out of Gagne Richards and anyone so gotta try something. I don't want Powe anywhere near Carter.
22 POINTS IN 31 GAMES for Gagne. Other than 6 games, he has basically been a hair shy of a PPG

Richards is 2nd on the team in points.

I am all for Richards being used with lesser wingers in a shut down role since he gets a lot of points on special teams, but not at the expense of screwing up the development of Giroux/JVR.

And not if it hurts the teams overall offense, which is would

I dont want Powe anywhere near the top 6 either, but they dont have much of a choice at the moment. You could move JVR up there, but then Giroux plays with slop.

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02-04-2010, 04:29 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
22 POINTS IN 31 GAMES for Gagne. Other than 6 games, he has basically been a hair shy of a PPG
other then 6 games hes practically been at a PPG pace? You can't just throw out a 6 game slump and say hes practically been a PPG player lol. Just like I could sit here and say if you took away the game against the Rangers he has 18 points in 30 games with 3 goals. I'm sure a lot of players stats would look better if you just magically ignored 6 games where they were kept off the score sheet.

RIGHT NOW Richards and Gagne are not producing at the level we need them to in order for us to be successful. In fact outside of Carter none of our forwards are really consistently producing and Carter has cooled off a bit these last few games.

In our last 10 games, 8 of our opponents were in the bottom third of the league in goals against. We were shut out by the two WORST defensive clubs. Got 1 goal against Pitt and 2 against the Islanders. I don't see how you can sit here and just say that Gagne and Richards are producing. (it's not just them either, collectively the offense is not where it needs to be for us to be successful over long stretches of hockey)

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02-04-2010, 04:32 PM
  #47
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other then 6 games hes practically been at a PPG pace? You can't just throw out a 6 game slump and say hes practically been a PPG player lol. Just like I could sit here and say if you took away the game against the Rangers he has 18 points in 30 games with 3 goals. I'm sure a lot of players stats would look better if you just magically ignored 6 games where they were kept off the score sheet.

RIGHT NOW Richards and Gagne are not producing at the level we need them to in order for us to be successful. In fact outside of Carter none of our forwards are really consistently producing and Carter has cooled off a bit these last few games.

In our last 10 games, 8 of our opponents were in the bottom third of the league in goals against. We were shut out by the two WORST defensive clubs. Got 1 goal against Pitt and 2 against the Islanders. I don't see how you can sit here and just say that Gagne and Richards are producing. (it's not just them either, collectively the offense is not where it needs to be for us to be successful over long stretches of hockey)
Find me an NHL player that doesnt have a 5 or 6 game period where they go through a slump???

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02-04-2010, 04:33 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Find me an NHL player that doesnt have a 5 or 6 game period where they go through a slump???
Find me a PPG player with 22 points in 31 games.

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02-04-2010, 04:33 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
other then 6 games hes practically been at a PPG pace? You can't just throw out a 6 game slump and say hes practically been a PPG player lol. Just like I could sit here and say if you took away the game against the Rangers he has 18 points in 30 games with 3 goals. I'm sure a lot of players stats would look better if you just magically ignored 6 games where they were kept off the score sheet.

RIGHT NOW Richards and Gagne are not producing at the level we need them to in order for us to be successful. In fact outside of Carter none of our forwards are really consistently producing and Carter has cooled off a bit these last few games.

In our last 10 games, 8 of our opponents were in the bottom third of the league in goals against. We were shut out by the two WORST defensive clubs. Got 1 goal against Pitt and 2 against the Islanders. I don't see how you can sit here and just say that Gagne and Richards are producing. (it's not just them either, collectively the offense is not where it needs to be for us to be successful over long stretches of hockey)
Thank you. That bold statement is the only correct thing you have said all day. So stop singling out Gagne.

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02-04-2010, 04:36 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Find me a PPG player with 22 points in 31 games.
LOL!!! Wow, I must be bored to keep arguing with people that cant read......LOL

When you get me an answer to my question, I will find you a PPG player with 22 points in 31 games (even though I never once called Gagne a PPG player....never has been) I probably have a better chance of finding that than you finding someone who never had a 6 game slump in their career.....It shows how just flat out wrong you are. There is not one single player in NHL history that hasnt had a stretch where he didnt put up points for several games. Its an 82 game season. Gagne has been perfectly fine other than one 6 game stretch out of 30 and people are on here *****ing about him.

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