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Winger Problem and Chris Kunitz: Deal Him?

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Old
02-04-2010, 07:19 PM
  #1
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Winger Problem and Chris Kunitz: Deal Him?

I feel and don't get why the Pens seem to be married to the idea of Kunitz being with Crosby. I'd like to see the Pens get TWO wingers who can actually finish along with a defenseman who can fill a Scuds/Gill role. They won't be able to do this without emptying the farm system.

However, there is another way. Why not deal Kunitz either directly for another winger/defenseman or for picks/prospects and then forward them in a seperate trade?

I am not a fan of Kunitz at all. The guy plays with the best center in hockey, and yet can not finish. He is basically a more skilled Matt Cooke, minus the grit. The Pens like to through out the line "well he completes his other assignments well" but that's not his role. His purpose is too score and finish, not get cheap secondary assists. He stinks, he can't finish and it is very frustrating to see a so called top winger who can't produce with Crosby setting him up.

Any chance we can get rid of him because I believe any serious talks of upgrading wingers begins not just with replacing Dupuis on the top six, but also with replacing Kunitz. Get finishers who can score.

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02-04-2010, 07:21 PM
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02-04-2010, 07:22 PM
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He's been hurt, He's having a down season and there's no winger we'd get straight up for him that would be any better.

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02-04-2010, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TraderJoe View Post
I feel and don't get why the Pens seem to be married to the idea of Kunitz being with Crosby. I'd like to see the Pens get TWO wingers who can actually finish along with a defenseman who can fill a Scuds/Gill role. They won't be able to do this without emptying the farm system.

However, there is another way. Why not deal Kunitz either directly for another winger/defenseman or for picks/prospects and then forward them in a seperate trade?

I am not a fan of Kunitz at all. The guy plays with the best center in hockey, and yet can not finish. He is basically a more skilled Matt Cooke, minus the grit. The Pens like to through out the line "well he completes his other assignments well" but that's not his role. His purpose is too score and finish, not get cheap secondary assists. He stinks, he can't finish and it is very frustrating to see a so called top winger who can't produce with Crosby setting him up.

Any chance we can get rid of him because I believe any serious talks of upgrading wingers begins not just with replacing Dupuis on the top six, but also with replacing Kunitz. Get finishers who can score.
so much wrong with this but I'll just pick one Kunitz is like a more skilled Matt Cooke minus the grit Have you even watched him play?

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02-04-2010, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TraderJoe View Post
I feel and don't get why the Pens seem to be married to the idea of Kunitz being with Crosby. I'd like to see the Pens get TWO wingers who can actually finish along with a defenseman who can fill a Scuds/Gill role. They won't be able to do this without emptying the farm system.

However, there is another way. Why not deal Kunitz either directly for another winger/defenseman or for picks/prospects and then forward them in a seperate trade?

I am not a fan of Kunitz at all. The guy plays with the best center in hockey, and yet can not finish. He is basically a more skilled Matt Cooke, minus the grit. The Pens like to through out the line "well he completes his other assignments well" but that's not his role. His purpose is too score and finish, not get cheap secondary assists. He stinks, he can't finish and it is very frustrating to see a so called top winger who can't produce with Crosby setting him up.

Any chance we can get rid of him because I believe any serious talks of upgrading wingers begins not just with replacing Dupuis on the top six, but also with replacing Kunitz. Get finishers who can score.
cooke minus the grit? ...so you've never seen a single game of kunitz's career?

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02-04-2010, 07:29 PM
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Dude around here players with "grit" can do no wrong. It's not even worth bothering to argue even though the guy is grossly overpaid.

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02-04-2010, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Dude around here players with "grit" can do no wrong. It's not even worth bothering to argue even though the guy is grossly overpaid.
guy is 750,000 overpaid at most. What do you think 20 goal 50-60 point wingers who is a good 2 way player with two rings get paid?

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02-04-2010, 07:35 PM
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I remember someone on this board compared Kunitz with other wingers who make a similar amount of money and basically proved that he wasn't really overpaid.

Sure he isn't the best finisher but that isn't the only thing he brings to the table. He creates a lot of space for Crosby and was a dominant force on the fore check at one point. I want to see him when he isn't injured. In reality, he is the least of our worries.

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02-04-2010, 07:35 PM
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He's a demolition man!!! No grit.......
We need to shed Fedx/Adams and/or Guerin, not Kunitz.

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02-04-2010, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TraderJoe View Post
I feel and don't get why the Pens seem to be married to the idea of Kunitz being with Crosby. I'd like to see the Pens get TWO wingers who can actually finish along with a defenseman who can fill a Scuds/Gill role. They won't be able to do this without emptying the farm system.

However, there is another way. Why not deal Kunitz either directly for another winger/defenseman or for picks/prospects and then forward them in a seperate trade?

I am not a fan of Kunitz at all. The guy plays with the best center in hockey, and yet can not finish. He is basically a more skilled Matt Cooke, minus the grit. The Pens like to through out the line "well he completes his other assignments well" but that's not his role. His purpose is too score and finish, not get cheap secondary assists. He stinks, he can't finish and it is very frustrating to see a so called top winger who can't produce with Crosby setting him up.

Any chance we can get rid of him because I believe any serious talks of upgrading wingers begins not just with replacing Dupuis on the top six, but also with replacing Kunitz. Get finishers who can score.
OK, so which team will take Kunitz and what winger(s) are they going to give? I don't disagree that he needs to score more, he does, but injuries have clouded any meaningful analysis from this season so far, let's see how he does down the stretch run/playoffs. Guerin is the real problem on that line IMO and putting in a legitimate shooting winger would make Kunitz the perfect, albeit slightly overpaid, complementary player.

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02-04-2010, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
guy is 750,000 overpaid at most. What do you think 20 goal 50-60 point wingers who is a good 2 way player with two rings get paid?
Well if $750k is so negligible, Malone only makes $750k more and is way better but you've already made up your mind since the guy hits somebody every once in awhile so whatever. This is the part where I hear all the exaggerations about him "causing havoc on the forecheck."

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02-04-2010, 07:45 PM
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I'm getting so tired of the Kunitz hate. He only scored one goal in da playoffz!!!1

Yeah, and he added a decent ppg clip, timely hits, and a good forecheck en route to his second cup.

He singlehandedly makes the ES transition game better and creates space for everyone on his line -- especially old/slow BillyG. It seems that every game he's battling on the boards in the neutral zone, fishing out pucks, and sending Crosby and Guerin on their way. Often he does this and doesn't record a point, yet anyone who pays attention will understand his value on those plays.

The Pens have lost 11 of their last 21 games and have had trouble establishing possession in the offensive zone. Kunitz is a complete and well-rounded winger that the Pens need to have in the playoffs. He helps transition, he's good down low in the offensive zone, he has good hockey sense, he's physical, and he plays tenacious defense.

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02-04-2010, 07:45 PM
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Kunitz stinks.
1 goal in the playoffs last season.
How many goals in 30 games this year, 6?
He is NOT a 1st line winger, and he can't finish.

I'm tired of seeing him swing and miss on a good scoring chance and then have to read about how good he is at his other assignments.
We have enough role players who can get secondary assists and backcheck, we need a finisher.

You can deal Kunitz for picks or a prospect and use that to get a winger/defenseman we need. Keeping Kunitz is part of the problem, he is an overpaid glorified 3rd liner.

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02-04-2010, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Well if $750k is so negligible, Malone only makes $750k more and is way better but you've already made up your mind since the guy hits somebody every once in awhile so whatever. This is the part where I hear all the exaggerations about him "causing havoc on the forecheck."
Bugsy is breaking out this season but is still only on pace for 60 points. Tampa gave him that contract when he'd had a 51 point season and two 40 point seasons. Kunitz got his contract after 1 40 point season, 1 50 point season and 1 60 point season and a cup ring. What do you think Kunitz should be getting paid?

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02-04-2010, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TraderJoe View Post
I feel and don't get why the Pens seem to be married to the idea of Kunitz being with Crosby. I'd like to see the Pens get TWO wingers who can actually finish along with a defenseman who can fill a Scuds/Gill role. They won't be able to do this without emptying the farm system.

However, there is another way. Why not deal Kunitz either directly for another winger/defenseman or for picks/prospects and then forward them in a seperate trade?

I am not a fan of Kunitz at all. The guy plays with the best center in hockey, and yet can not finish. He is basically a more skilled Matt Cooke, minus the grit. The Pens like to through out the line "well he completes his other assignments well" but that's not his role. His purpose is too score and finish, not get cheap secondary assists. He stinks, he can't finish and it is very frustrating to see a so called top winger who can't produce with Crosby setting him up.

Any chance we can get rid of him because I believe any serious talks of upgrading wingers begins not just with replacing Dupuis on the top six, but also with replacing Kunitz. Get finishers who can score.
Let me guess, you are the kind of guy that yells "SHOOT" when the Pens are on a powerplay too...

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02-04-2010, 07:58 PM
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crosby playoff stats with an "elite" finisher on his wing 6g 21a 27p



crosby playoff stats with the terrible kunitz on his line 15g 16a 31p


we should go after semin, so that when the heat turns up in the playoffs, he can play perimeter hockey and not get involved along the boards like he did in our series last year. we'll let crosby do all the work in the corners

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02-04-2010, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Bugsy is breaking out this season but is still only on pace for 60 points. Tampa gave him that contract when he'd had a 51 point season and two 40 point seasons. Kunitz got his contract after 1 40 point season, 1 50 point season and 1 60 point season and a cup ring. What do you think Kunitz should be getting paid?
Put it this way, how much have you missed him lately?

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02-04-2010, 08:01 PM
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Put it this way, how much have you missed him lately?
quite a bit the Team is much more effective with Kunitz on it. For the third time how much should Kunitz be making in your eyes?

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02-04-2010, 08:06 PM
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quite a bit the Team is much more effective with Kunitz on it. For the third time how much should Kunitz be making in your eyes?
I would concede that $3 million is probably right, but no more. The guy has no hands whatsoever and not much vision. If it seems like I'm pinching pennies it's because we have big contracts and I don't like players that show up every 7-8 games.

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02-04-2010, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I would concede that $3 million is probably right, but no more. The guy has no hands whatsoever and not much vision. If it seems like I'm pinching pennies it's because we have big contracts and I don't like players that show up every 7-8 games.
problem is it's difficult to get players who show up everygame on a shoe string. Most of the wingers in Kunitz's price range are equally streaky and lacking in some department.

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02-04-2010, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Put it this way, how much have you missed him lately?
Who? Malone or Kunitz?

If it's Kunitz, I'd say I miss him a whole helluva lot. I miss him every time Crosby has to do all the work in all three zones for his line, I miss him when the only wingers bringing it physically are Cooke and Rupp, and I miss him when the other team spends more time in the Pens' zone than the Pens do in theirs.

I guess we could just trade him for a cool sniper and watch that sniper provide absolutely nothing else but the occasional well-placed puck.

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02-04-2010, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jedi Pengu View Post
He's a demolition man!!! No grit.......
We need to shed Fedx/Adams and/or Guerin, not Kunitz.
Guerin?
He is our best winger. He can actually finish.

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02-04-2010, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by lastcupever75 View Post
crosby playoff stats with an "elite" finisher on his wing 6g 21a 27p



crosby playoff stats with the terrible kunitz on his line 15g 16a 31p


we should go after semin, so that when the heat turns up in the playoffs, he can play perimeter hockey and not get involved along the boards like he did in our series last year. we'll let crosby do all the work in the corners
Actually the Pens power play struggles are a direct result from having no good winger aside from Guerin on the top six.
The result is they have no 2nd line power play and must stock, overload their first line.

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02-04-2010, 08:13 PM
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problem is it's difficult to get players who show up everygame on a shoe string. Most of the wingers in Kunitz's price range are equally streaky and lacking in some department.
Fair enough, my point is just that when our big guns are performing well that's when we win and there's never a thought of "if only we had Kunitz drifting up and down the wing."

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02-04-2010, 08:19 PM
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he was on pace for 55 or so points.... that equates to a four million dollar player, unless they are underpaid.

and his slow starts in goal scoring is common for him so he would have hit 60 pts this year with over 20 goals. you people boggle my mind and have no idea of his history or the class of people that his salary equates to.

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