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Alexei Ponikarovsky to Ottawa

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Old
02-05-2010, 03:03 PM
  #51
powerthirst
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post

Edit: So your asking for:
Kabs which = 1st + top prospect
Poni= at least a 2nd, probably 2nd + 4th
Kadri= #7 pick and our top prospect
Stefanovich= our #3 prospect after Kadri and Monster. Had 49g in the QHL last year and rated 7.5C by HFutures(which is higher than any forward you have in your system)

for Spezza @ 7m *6yrs and has 27pts this year

You're off your rocker buddy.
Just to point out that that's what Leaf fans *think* he is worth. I've never, ever seen even 1 thread where another fan base is willing to give this up for 1 year of Kaberle.

Also picking Spezza's worst year as a reference point is weak. Also being under contract is a plus, not a minus.

Franchise centre's don't come cheap, especially ones that have racked up 90 points in less than 70 games and are still very young.

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02-05-2010, 03:04 PM
  #52
Nazem Gretzky
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I think the Leafs will probably deal him to the west. Maybe anaheim.

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02-05-2010, 03:05 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerthirst View Post
Just to point out that that's what Leaf fans *think* he is worth. I've never, ever seen even 1 thread where another fan base is willing to give this up for 1 year of Kaberle.

Also picking Spezza's worst year as a reference point is weak. Also being under contract is a plus, not a minus.

Franchise centre's don't come cheap, especially ones that have racked up 90 points in less than 70 games and are still very young.
You didn't look very hard then. Multiple Buffalo fans were suggesting either Kassian + 1st or Stafford + 1st.

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02-05-2010, 03:09 PM
  #54
Kevin Malone
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Originally Posted by powerthirst View Post
Just to point out that that's what Leaf fans *think* he is worth. I've never, ever seen even 1 thread where another fan base is willing to give this up for 1 year of Kaberle.

Also picking Spezza's worst year as a reference point is weak. Also being under contract is a plus, not a minus.

Franchise centre's don't come cheap, especially ones that have racked up 90 points in less than 70 games and are still very young.
Well you might wanna look at what Sens fans think Spezza's worth.

Not at 7m per season.

Could this be Spezza's worst season thus far because he doesn't have Dany ******* Heatley on his wing?

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02-05-2010, 03:09 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Professor Truculence View Post
I think the Leafs will probably deal him to the west. Maybe anaheim.

Ryan is the only duck they could use and Anaheim won't part with him

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02-05-2010, 03:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
Well you might wanna look at what Sens fans think Spezza's worth.

Not at 7m per season.

Could this be Spezza's worst season thus far because he doesn't have Dany ******* Heatley on his wing?
first major injury too

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02-05-2010, 03:22 PM
  #57
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hey sens fans, where is this talk about us not being able to fit poni under the cap coming from?

i'm fairly confident i am more well-versed in the sens cap situation than anyone outside the NHL (dont really know how to say this without sounding arrogant), and from what i can tell, we have more than enough space to fit poni under the cap for the rest of the season without sending ANY players back.

Sending roster players back makes the deal slightly worse for the sens, as the only expendable roster player we have would be cheechoo, and he has negative value. I would propose a 2nd and a prospect like erik condra or kaspars daugavins, or a player like winchester and a 3rd. To be honest, with the leafs offense the way it is, toronto is probably better off simply resigning poni though. I cant see any NHL team offering significantly more than that either, unless they are dumping some salary.

If the leafs are willing to take cheechoo, sure, i'd pay more, but more means someone like jim obrien (who i'm sure the leafs would develop into a stellar 3rd line center or possibly a 2nd line winger) or maybe give both cheechoo and winchester (but then we would be relying on z. smith as an injury fill-in. Another guy i think the leafs could be interested in is cody bass, who seems to have been passed by z. smith in organizational depth over the past year due to his injuries but he grew up a leafs fan and plays a very "burke" style of game.

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02-05-2010, 03:23 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
Stefanovich= our #3 prospect after Kadri and Monster. Had 49g in the QHL last year and rated 7.5C by HFutures(which is higher than any forward you have in your system)
You realize those ratings are chosen by different people for each team?

Stalberg, Bozak, Stefanovich, and Gustavsson are rated a 7.5C or 7.5B vs Regin and Elliot being 7.0C and 7.0B.

Does that make Stalberg (17GP, 3pts) a better prospect than Regin (52GP, 17pts at a younger age)?

Does that make Gustavsson a better prospect than the hottest goalie in the league for the past 3 weeks?

Call me crazy, but I'll take Regin and Elliot over Stalberg and Gustavsson regardless of HF ratings.

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02-05-2010, 03:24 PM
  #59
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well Burke has claimed he will take on another teams bad contract so why not

Cheechoo and a 2nd rounder for Poni

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02-05-2010, 03:26 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by harfo1 View Post
well Burke has claimed he will take on another teams bad contract so why not

Cheechoo and a 2nd rounder for Poni
done, and i think you're underselling poni there. You could probably squeeze out cody bass, kaspars daugavins, or josh hennessy. Could even get condra, but he's in his first pro season so murray may want to see him develop a bit more before deciding on him.

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02-05-2010, 03:28 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
hey sens fans, where is this talk about us not being able to fit poni under the cap coming from?

i'm fairly confident i am more well-versed in the sens cap situation than anyone outside the NHL (dont really know how to say this without sounding arrogant), and from what i can tell, we have more than enough space to fit poni under the cap for the rest of the season without sending ANY players back.

Sending roster players back makes the deal slightly worse for the sens, as the only expendable roster player we have would be cheechoo, and he has negative value. I would propose a 2nd and a prospect like erik condra or kaspars daugavins, or a player like winchester and a 3rd. To be honest, with the leafs offense the way it is, toronto is probably better off simply resigning poni though. I cant see any NHL team offering significantly more than that either, unless they are dumping some salary.

If the leafs are willing to take cheechoo, sure, i'd pay more, but more means someone like jim obrien (who i'm sure the leafs would develop into a stellar 3rd line center or possibly a 2nd line winger) or maybe give both cheechoo and winchester (but then we would be relying on z. smith as an injury fill-in. Another guy i think the leafs could be interested in is cody bass, who seems to have been passed by z. smith in organizational depth over the past year due to his injuries but he grew up a leafs fan and plays a very "burke" style of game.
hey sens mod, where are all these sens fans talking about us not being able to fit poni under the cap?

I'm fairly confident only one or two sens fan suggested we don't have enough space (don't really know how to say this without sounding like a dick).

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02-05-2010, 03:32 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
Well you might wanna look at what Sens fans think Spezza's worth.

Not at 7m per season.

Could this be Spezza's worst season thus far because he doesn't have Dany ******* Heatley on his wing?
He started the year with a lingering back injury that he decided to play through. He sat out a couple games here and there in the hopes of getting some recovery time but it didn't make much of a difference. I've been the several games earlier this season and just about every TV timeout, he'd be out on the ice doing some stretches. When play was about to resume, he'd jump back on to the bench.

His knee injury kept him out for weeks, and likely had the benefit of giving him a proper amount of recovery time for his back as well. He's been money in the bank ever since. He also confirmed this as being one of the reasons why he's played better in an interview today.

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02-05-2010, 03:33 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan83 View Post
hey sens mod, where are all these sens fans talking about us not being able to fit poni under the cap?

I'm fairly confident only one or two sens fan suggested we don't have enough space (don't really know how to say this without sounding like a dick).
4/7 sens fans that have posted in this thread (not including you) seemed to think we didnt have space. I felt clarification was needed. I could copy some tables from my spreadsheet if necessary, but i feel my word is enough.

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02-05-2010, 03:38 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
4/7 sens fans that have posted in this thread (not including you) seemed to think we didnt have space. I felt clarification was needed. I could copy some tables from my spreadsheet if necessary, but i feel my word is enough.
I only count two but I guess I just interpreted some of the responses differently. Thanks for the clarification though.. of course the word of my favourite mod friend is more than enough! Now could you do something about my infractions so we can all see Fisher's face again?

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02-05-2010, 03:39 PM
  #65
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2nd Cheechoo for Poni works

I really doubt this is the best Toronto can do for Poni though.

And we arent THAT desperate to get Cheech off the books to give up more in this deal. Hes only got a year left after this and if we still have him in the off season hes as good as bought out.

If Toronto was dead set on making a deal with Ottawa for Poni the worst Id go...
Cheech+2nd+4th/average prospect

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02-05-2010, 03:40 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by sensfan83 View Post
You realize those ratings are chosen by different people for each team?

Stalberg, Bozak, Stefanovich, and Gustavsson are rated a 7.5C or 7.5B vs Regin and Elliot being 7.0C and 7.0B.

Does that make Stalberg (17GP, 3pts) a better prospect than Regin (52GP, 17pts at a younger age)?

Does that make Gustavsson a better prospect than the hottest goalie in the league for the past 3 weeks?

Call me crazy, but I'll take Regin and Elliot over Stalberg and Gustavsson regardless of HF ratings.
The numbers are based on the players ceiling and letters on the probability of them hitting that ceiling.

Stahlberg has top line potential which Regin does not. Does that mean Stahlberg is the better player right now, no it doesn't. Thats like saying Regin is better than Kadri because he's got pts in the NHL while Kadri is lighting up juniors. Kadri is still the better prospect hands down.

When I'm looking at prospects I care more about potential because 3rd and 4th line guys can be added through free agency.

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02-05-2010, 03:46 PM
  #67
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I honestly doubt burke has any interest in trading poni for a much less productive player, with an additional season of a higher cap hit

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02-05-2010, 03:46 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
The numbers are based on the players ceiling and letters on the probability of them hitting that ceiling.

Stahlberg has top line potential which Regin does not. Does that mean Stahlberg is the better player right now, no it doesn't. Thats like saying Regin is better than Kadri because he's got pts in the NHL while Kadri is lighting up juniors. Kadri is still the better prospect hands down.

When I'm looking at prospects I care more about potential because 3rd and 4th line guys can be added through free agency.
Yeah man, that 24 yr old AHLer Stalberg's got so much top line potential! Sort of like how Kulemin, Tlusty, Pogge, Stralman were all 8.0B to 8.0C in fall 2008. The leafs will be pretty hard to beat with all those future first liners.

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02-05-2010, 03:48 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
Well you might wanna look at what Sens fans think Spezza's worth.

Not at 7m per season.

Could this be Spezza's worst season thus far because he doesn't have Dany ******* Heatley on his wing?
Or perhaps he was playing injured and has now put up the franchises longest goal scoring streak of all time.
I'm not going to argue Spezza's value, and I said I don't know much about Stefanovich, but I sure as hell wouldn't trade Spezza for Poni Kadri, a 25th pick, and Kaissan.

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02-05-2010, 03:49 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by radmanigan View Post
Wilson doesn't need Cheech..Wilson needs a Fisher or a Speeza

Kaberle and Poni for Fisher or Kaberle, Poni, Kadri, Stefanovich, for Speeza
I hope you realize that Ottawa want to upgrade and make a run for the cup before Alfie retires, so trade Spezza or Fisher is just out of the question at this point in time. That and the fact that these guys are core guys on the sens

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02-05-2010, 03:52 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
Well you might wanna look at what Sens fans think Spezza's worth.

Not at 7m per season.

Could this be Spezza's worst season thus far because he doesn't have Dany ******* Heatley on his wing?
He also happens to be on a 8 game goal streak

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02-05-2010, 03:58 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
The numbers are based on the players ceiling and letters on the probability of them hitting that ceiling.

Stahlberg has top line potential which Regin does not. Does that mean Stahlberg is the better player right now, no it doesn't. Thats like saying Regin is better than Kadri because he's got pts in the NHL while Kadri is lighting up juniors. Kadri is still the better prospect hands down.

When I'm looking at prospects I care more about potential because 3rd and 4th line guys can be added through free agency.
Regin has top line potential. He's just got stuck in the age old quandary that is the Spezza-Fisher logjam at Center. Antoine Vermette got caught in the same situation not too long ago.

Regin actually has a better skillset than Antoine aside from Vermette's ridiculous faceoff abilities. Regin has a strong stride, good balance, controls the puck extremely well, great vision, shiftiness, sound defensively. When Spezza got injured, he got more minutes and played with Kovalev and Alfredsson at various points. He did not look out of place and produced at a point per game pace.

The problem is, he gets stuck on a line with Jonathan Cheechoo and Jesse Winchester... His abilities are pretty much wasted playing there.

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02-05-2010, 04:07 PM
  #73
Nazem Gretzky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
The numbers are based on the players ceiling and letters on the probability of them hitting that ceiling.

Stahlberg has top line potential which Regin does not. Does that mean Stahlberg is the better player right now, no it doesn't. Thats like saying Regin is better than Kadri because he's got pts in the NHL while Kadri is lighting up juniors. Kadri is still the better prospect hands down.

When I'm looking at prospects I care more about potential because 3rd and 4th line guys can be added through free agency.
I'm a Leafs fan and I'd say that Regin definitely has top line potential. To be perfectly honest, Stalberg could end up being a top line player, but more likely I see him as a very good 15-15 third line PK specialist because of his speed, size, and forechecking ability.

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02-05-2010, 04:17 PM
  #74
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02-05-2010, 04:19 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Professor Truculence View Post
I'm a Leafs fan and I'd say that Regin definitely has top line potential. To be perfectly honest, Stalberg could end up being a top line player, but more likely I see him as a very good 15-15 third line PK specialist because of his speed, size, and forechecking ability.
On Stalberg: Serious? From what I've seen the kid has serious potential, I would have thought 25-25 at least would be reasonable.

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