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Alexei Ponikarovsky to Ottawa

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Old
02-05-2010, 06:39 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad Panda View Post
No offense, but we don't want Winchester. We don't want Cheechoo. And a San Jose 2nd rounder is basically a 3rd.



I really hope this is a joke.
Why do you not want Winchester? And most of your trade options are going to be picking late.

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Old
02-05-2010, 06:44 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
Bolded are all guys who had other LW teammates that scored 50pts. I imagine there is also quite a few more in the 45-50pt range as well. If you did this for C and RW there would be a lot of 2nd line guys who score 50pts.
Are we increasing the range now, are we talking about 45+ to make your point?,
There are only 7.

It`s very difficult to get 50pts if you are not playing on 1st line.

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02-05-2010, 06:55 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
Bolded are all guys who had other LW teammates that scored 50pts. I imagine there is also quite a few more in the 45-50pt range as well. If you did this for C and RW there would be a lot of 2nd line guys who score 50pts.
Player Cur. Team Pos GP G A P
3 Ilya Kovalchuk ATL L 79 43 48 91
9 Vyacheslav Kozlov ATL L 82 26 50 76
13 Thomas Vanek BUF L 73 40 24 64
4 Michael Cammalleri cal L 81 39 43 82
8 Ray Whitney CAR L 82 24 53 77
22 Kristian Huselius CBJ L 74 21 35 56
25 Kris Versteeg CHI L 78 22 31 53
20 Ryan Smyth col L 77 26 33 59
14 Loui Eriksson DAL L 82 36 27 63
11 Henrik Zetterberg DET L 77 31 42 73
17 David Booth FLA L 72 31 29 60
19 Alexander Frolov LAK L 77 32 27 59
23 Dustin Brown LAK L 80 24 29 53
28 Andrew Brunette MIN L 80 22 28 50
2 Zach Parise NJD L 82 45 49 94
7 Patrik Elias NJD L 77 31 47 78
12 Dany Heatley ott L 82 39 33 72
10 Simon Gagne PHI L 79 34 40 74
18 Scott Hartnell PHI L 82 30 30 60
24 Chris Kunitz PIT L 82 23 30 53
21 Milan Michalek SJS L 77 23 34 57
26 Ryane Clowe SJS L 71 22 30 52
29 David Perron STL L 81 15 35 50
15 Jason Blake TOR L 78 25 38 63
16 Alexei Ponikarovsk TOR L 82 23 38 61
5 Daniel Sedin VAN L 82 31 51 82
27 Alexandre Burrows VAN L 82 28 23 51
1 Alex Ovechkin WSH L 79 56 54 110
6 Alexander Semin WSH L 62 34 45 79


1. They may be listed as LW, it does not mean they are playing L.
2. From the list, I am counting 7 pairs of LW with 50+ pts playing on the same team

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Old
02-05-2010, 07:49 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PablitoArg View Post
How about this:


Kuba
Cheechoo
Fisher


for


Kaberle
Poni
Kadri (I want the only Lebanese player in Ottawa) hahaha
Stef
Poni is an UFA, Kaberle only has one year left on his contract and wouldn't sign for Ott again. (the chances are) ... And toronto would be getting a Top second line center that can play a hard nosed game. With a great contract with 4 years left on it.

i'm sure TO would do Fisher for Kadri & Stef any day...

What if Ottawa adds a 2nd round pick with a 4th round pick ? IMO that's fair value... You guys aren't going to sign Kaberle when his contract finishes anyways, cause he'll be asking around 6M a year type deal. And you're already tight to the cap as it is with No (#1 centre, No LW ) ..


Fisher
Kuba
Cheechoo
2nd round
4th round

for

Kaberle
Poni
Kadri
Stef

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Old
02-05-2010, 07:51 PM
  #105
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they can get more for each piece separately. That trade is simply bad pabilito.

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Old
02-05-2010, 07:55 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PablitoArg View Post


Fisher
Kuba
Cheechoo
2nd round
4th round

for

Kaberle
Poni
Kadri
Stef
Ugghh please....

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Old
02-05-2010, 07:58 PM
  #107
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1) Value of Alexei Ponikarovsky to Ottawa: just his salary on July 1, 2010.
2) Foligno for Poni? GTFO.
3) The above trade: prepare to get murdered by Leafs fans. I'd make sure they can't track your IP address.

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Old
02-05-2010, 08:01 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
they can get more for each piece separately. That trade is simply bad pabilito.
can't blame a guy for trying to Pull one in Lameriellian Fashion

(Lou Lameriello, NJ owner & Gm for the idiots)

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Old
02-05-2010, 08:07 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PablitoArg View Post
Poni is an UFA, Kaberle only has one year left on his contract and wouldn't sign for Ott again. (the chances are) ... And toronto would be getting a Top second line center that can play a hard nosed game. With a great contract with 4 years left on it.

i'm sure TO would do Fisher for Kadri & Stef any day...

What if Ottawa adds a 2nd round pick with a 4th round pick ? IMO that's fair value... You guys aren't going to sign Kaberle when his contract finishes anyways, cause he'll be asking around 6M a year type deal. And you're already tight to the cap as it is with No (#1 centre, No LW ) ..


Fisher
Kuba
Cheechoo
2nd round
4th round

for

Kaberle
Poni
Kadri
Stef
Ouch !

No chance.

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Old
02-05-2010, 08:47 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PablitoArg View Post

Fisher
Kuba
Cheechoo
2nd round
4th round

for

Kaberle
Poni
Kadri
Stef
If Murray were to ever trade off Fisher for such a bad deal, I would cry. Literally.

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Old
02-05-2010, 09:23 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
Player Cur. Team Pos GP G A P
3 Ilya Kovalchuk ATL L 79 43 48 91
9 Vyacheslav Kozlov ATL L 82 26 50 76
13 Thomas Vanek BUF L 73 40 24 64
4 Michael Cammalleri cal L 81 39 43 82
8 Ray Whitney CAR L 82 24 53 77
22 Kristian Huselius CBJ L 74 21 35 56
25 Kris Versteeg CHI L 78 22 31 53
20 Ryan Smyth col L 77 26 33 59
14 Loui Eriksson DAL L 82 36 27 63
11 Henrik Zetterberg DET L 77 31 42 73
17 David Booth FLA L 72 31 29 60
19 Alexander Frolov LAK L 77 32 27 59
23 Dustin Brown LAK L 80 24 29 53
28 Andrew Brunette MIN L 80 22 28 50
2 Zach Parise NJD L 82 45 49 94
7 Patrik Elias NJD L 77 31 47 78
12 Dany Heatley ott L 82 39 33 72
10 Simon Gagne PHI L 79 34 40 74
18 Scott Hartnell PHI L 82 30 30 60
24 Chris Kunitz PIT L 82 23 30 53
21 Milan Michalek SJS L 77 23 34 57
26 Ryane Clowe SJS L 71 22 30 52
29 David Perron STL L 81 15 35 50
15 Jason Blake TOR L 78 25 38 63
16 Alexei Ponikarovsk TOR L 82 23 38 61
5 Daniel Sedin VAN L 82 31 51 82
27 Alexandre Burrows VAN L 82 28 23 51
1 Alex Ovechkin WSH L 79 56 54 110
6 Alexander Semin WSH L 62 34 45 79


1. They may be listed as LW, it does not mean they are playing L.
2. From the list, I am counting 7 pairs of LW with 50+ pts playing on the same team
Not to mention all the bolded players did not play 1st line minutes

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Old
02-05-2010, 09:51 PM
  #112
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Cheechoo and a 1st for Poni?

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Old
02-05-2010, 09:52 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouter0 View Post
If Murray were to ever trade off Fisher for such a bad deal, I would cry. Literally.
I really hope those would be tears of joy, because if they weren't you would be just plain MAD. No offence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PablitoArg View Post
Poni is an UFA, Kaberle only has one year left on his contract and wouldn't sign for Ott again. (the chances are) ... And toronto would be getting a Top second line center that can play a hard nosed game. With a great contract with 4 years left on it.

i'm sure TO would do Fisher for Kadri & Stef any day...

What if Ottawa adds a 2nd round pick with a 4th round pick ? IMO that's fair value... You guys aren't going to sign Kaberle when his contract finishes anyways, cause he'll be asking around 6M a year type deal. And you're already tight to the cap as it is with No (#1 centre, No LW ) ..


Fisher
Kuba
Cheechoo
2nd round
4th round

for

Kaberle
Poni
Kadri
Stef
So........why do the leafs do this again?

There is no way in hell Fisher is worth a bluechip prospect + good prospect. Why would we trade Kadri for Fisher? Have you ever seen a good second liner get traded for a top 10 pick AND another freakin' prospect? Seriously man, stop overrating his value.

We won't want Kuba in return. The only reason why Kaberle would be moved is to do one of the following:

1) To acquire a top line center
2) To clear salary from the defensive end for picks+ prospects

The player in return needs to be young as well.

Fisher is not one, except for him and Kuba, the rest is just crap. So, I doubt we even trade Kaberle for that package. And then you add a top 6 forward, our top prospect, AND another prosect. Burke would facepalm about 50 times before answering if Murray ever offered this.

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Old
02-05-2010, 09:54 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by My Sweet Shadow View Post
Cheechoo and a 1st for Poni?
If we didn't want Cheechoo, we could just bury him in the minors VIA waiving him.

No reason to give up a first or someone to take him.

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Old
02-05-2010, 09:57 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by PablitoArg View Post
can't blame a guy for trying to Pull one in Lameriellian Fashion

(Lou Lameriello, NJ owner & Gm for the idiots)
What the hell does that even mean (please dont tell me ur talking about the Kovy trade)

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Old
02-05-2010, 10:00 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
That's fair. I'm not sure Murray would do it because Foligno was starting to get going prior to his injury, but I'll admit to that being a fair deal for both sides.
Ponikarovsky becomes UFA, you know that? So, let's say Poni is able to bring an early 2nd rounder at the deadline, would you be ready to trade Foligno for an early 2nd round pick?

Foligno (22) is still an RFA (cheaper salary) for a few years... His upside is probably as good as Poni, if not better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Holy ****, there's some hilarious homer kool aid being drunk in this thread. Foligno's a nice young player, Poni is an established goal scorer.
You realize it is Poni's 6th full NHL season and his career-high for goals was 23? Foligno scored 17 goals last season as a 21 y/o who spent half season on the 4th line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan83 View Post
Yeah man, that 24 yr old AHLer Stalberg's got so much top line potential! Sort of like how Kulemin, Tlusty, Pogge, Stralman were all 8.0B to 8.0C in fall 2008. The leafs will be pretty hard to beat with all those future first liners.


Yes, i've been in that kind of argument with Leafs fans before, that their prospects were so great while ours were busts. Where are their Regins, Winchesters, Elliotts, Folignos and Karlssons out of that great bunch of Leafs prospects?

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this thread =
/thread.

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Old
02-05-2010, 10:31 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Yes, i've been in that kind of argument with Leafs fans before, that their prospects were so great while ours were busts. Where are their Regins, Winchesters, Elliotts, Folignos and Karlssons out of that great bunch of Leafs prospects?
Going back to the Fall 2008 rankings; Schenn was just drafted 5th overall, Kulemin fresh off of 27 and 21 goal season in the Superleague as a 20-21 year old, Tlusty has always tantalized fans with glimpses of tremendous skill, but was finally given up on this year as he just can't seem to perform consistently, and Stralman kind of came out of nowhere the season before and had a very solid rookie campaign. Now he's Columbus' highest scoring defenseman.

As for Ottawa's prospects, Lee and Karlson were both ranked quite highly, Lee performing very well in the AHL, but only playing 10 games in the NHL and Karlson having spent the last season in the Swedish Junior League (hard to rank much higher then a 7.5 when you've only played in a 2nd tier, European league...not to mention weighing only 165 lbs). Elliot struggled for most of the season, as did Pogge, but Pogge had to his advantage a WHL MVP title and an unbelivable WJC performance, which led to higher hopes for his potential. Regin had a decent season in the SEL and was already projected to have 2nd-line potential. Winchester had just finished his senior year at Colgate University, where he put up decent, PPG numbers (which some may argue deserves more recognition...while jumping to the other side of the fence when it comes to Bozak, Hanson, Stalberg, etc.) As for Foligno, he had just put up 6 goals, 3 assists in 45 games for the Senators as a 20 year old; tough to predict his present day play after that kind of rookie campaign (Tlusty had 10 and 6 in 58 as a 19 year old...slightyly better, so slightly higher ranking).

Sorry for the rant, but those comments just frustrate me. If anything, being a Leafs prospect hurts your reputation. As soon as any player puts on that blue and white jersey, their value seems to drop by at least 50% around here.

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Old
02-06-2010, 05:12 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My Sweet Shadow View Post
Going back to the Fall 2008 rankings; Schenn was just drafted 5th overall, Kulemin fresh off of 27 and 21 goal season in the Superleague as a 20-21 year old, Tlusty has always tantalized fans with glimpses of tremendous skill, but was finally given up on this year as he just can't seem to perform consistently, and Stralman kind of came out of nowhere the season before and had a very solid rookie campaign. Now he's Columbus' highest scoring defenseman.

As for Ottawa's prospects, Lee and Karlson were both ranked quite highly, Lee performing very well in the AHL, but only playing 10 games in the NHL and Karlson having spent the last season in the Swedish Junior League (hard to rank much higher then a 7.5 when you've only played in a 2nd tier, European league...not to mention weighing only 165 lbs). Elliot struggled for most of the season, as did Pogge, but Pogge had to his advantage a WHL MVP title and an unbelivable WJC performance, which led to higher hopes for his potential. Regin had a decent season in the SEL and was already projected to have 2nd-line potential. Winchester had just finished his senior year at Colgate University, where he put up decent, PPG numbers (which some may argue deserves more recognition...while jumping to the other side of the fence when it comes to Bozak, Hanson, Stalberg, etc.) As for Foligno, he had just put up 6 goals, 3 assists in 45 games for the Senators as a 20 year old; tough to predict his present day play after that kind of rookie campaign (Tlusty had 10 and 6 in 58 as a 19 year old...slightyly better, so slightly higher ranking).

Sorry for the rant, but those comments just frustrate me. If anything, being a Leafs prospect hurts your reputation. As soon as any player puts on that blue and white jersey, their value seems to drop by at least 50% around here.
SF83 never talked about Schenn there. Obviously he was a 5th overall pick but he hasn't lived up to the hype yet.

No, he talked about Stalberg (7.5D), Kulemin (8.0B), Tlusty (8.0B), Pogge (8.0C), Stralman (8.0C) who all got very nice grades from HF but why for? Yes, you gave some nice arguments, but the same could have been made for Sens prospects who got way lesser grades. That's all a matter of who works as a writer for your team on HF. Sens writers have been very conservative for a while. Take a look at this :

Elliott (6.5C) : never struggled over a long period like you suggested, amazing NCAA career, was a Top goalie in the AHL as well

Foligno (6.5A) : 1st round draft pick, son of Mike Foligno. Had "Kadri type of stats" in the OHL...

Regin (7.0D) : Zetterberg type of season in the SEL. Almost a PPG player in the AHL in his 1st NA year.

Winchester (6.0 B) : PPG 2-way forward in his last 3 college years

Karlsson (7.5C) : Elite puck-mover in the Sweden junior leagues, dominated the U-18 tournament then the WJC. Drafted 15th, still not enough to have a 8.0 grade...

Shannon (6.5C) : over a PPG in the NCAA and the AHL

In conclusion, Leafs writers have been more generous in many opinions. Even if those Sens prospects had lesser grades, an argument could be made that :

Elliott > Pogge
Foligno > Kulemin
Regin > Stalberg
Karlsson > Stralman
Shannon/Winchester > Tlustly

Maybe i am way off?

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Old
02-06-2010, 05:15 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
SF83 never talked about Schenn there. Obviously he was a 5th overall pick but he hasn't lived up to the hype yet.

No, he talked about Stalberg (7.5D), Kulemin (8.0B), Tlusty (8.0B), Pogge (8.0C), Stralman (8.0C) who all got very nice grades from HF but why for? Yes, you gave some nice arguments, but the same could have been made for Sens prospects who got way lesser grades. That's all a matter of who works as a writer for your team on HF. Sens writers have been very conservative for a while. Take a look at this :

Elliott (6.5C) : never struggled over a long period like you suggested, amazing NCAA career, was a Top goalie in the AHL as well

Foligno (6.5A) : 1st round draft pick, son of Mike Foligno. Had "Kadri type of stats" in the OHL...

Regin (7.0D) : Zetterberg type of season in the SEL. Almost a PPG player in the AHL in his 1st NA year.

Winchester (6.0 B) : PPG 2-way forward in his last 3 college years

Karlsson (7.5C) : Elite puck-mover in the Sweden junior leagues, dominated the U-18 tournament then the WJC. Drafted 15th, still not enough to have a 8.0 grade...

Shannon (6.5C) : over a PPG in the NCAA and the AHL

In conclusion, Leafs writers have been more generous in many opinions. Even if those Sens prospects had lesser grades, an argument could be made that :

Elliott > Pogge
Foligno > Kulemin
Regin > Stalberg
Karlsson > Stralman
Shannon/Winchester > Tlustly

Maybe i am way off?
No you aren't off the crack.

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Old
02-06-2010, 05:26 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
SF83 never talked about Schenn there. Obviously he was a 5th overall pick but he hasn't lived up to the hype yet.

No, he talked about Stalberg (7.5D), Kulemin (8.0B), Tlusty (8.0B), Pogge (8.0C), Stralman (8.0C) who all got very nice grades from HF but why for? Yes, you gave some nice arguments, but the same could have been made for Sens prospects who got way lesser grades. That's all a matter of who works as a writer for your team on HF. Sens writers have been very conservative for a while. Take a look at this :

Elliott (6.5C) : never struggled over a long period like you suggested, amazing NCAA career, was a Top goalie in the AHL as well

Foligno (6.5A) : 1st round draft pick, son of Mike Foligno. Had "Kadri type of stats" in the OHL...

Regin (7.0D) : Zetterberg type of season in the SEL. Almost a PPG player in the AHL in his 1st NA year.

Winchester (6.0 B) : PPG 2-way forward in his last 3 college years

Karlsson (7.5C) : Elite puck-mover in the Sweden junior leagues, dominated the U-18 tournament then the WJC. Drafted 15th, still not enough to have a 8.0 grade...

Shannon (6.5C) : over a PPG in the NCAA and the AHL

In conclusion, Leafs writers have been more generous in many opinions. Even if those Sens prospects had lesser grades, an argument could be made that :

Elliott > Pogge
Foligno > Kulemin
Regin > Stalberg
Karlsson > Stralman
Shannon/Winchester > Tlustly

Maybe i am way off?
Personally, I'd rather have Kulemin over Foligno and Stalberg over Regin, but its way to early to say who will have a better career.

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Old
02-06-2010, 05:38 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by !!TML97!! View Post
No you aren't off the crack.
how so? are you going to make an argument as to why any of those prospects are better than the sens' version? the only one i think you can make an argument for is Kulemin vs Foligno and even then, its on potential, not on results thus far in their NHL careers.

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Old
02-06-2010, 06:43 PM
  #122
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Two Scenarios.

1.

Poni for Foligno straight up.

2.

Poni for Shannon + 2nd

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Old
02-06-2010, 07:10 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PablitoArg View Post
can't blame a guy for trying to Pull one in Lameriellian Fashion

(Lou Lameriello, NJ owner & Gm for the idiots)
If you can't even spell his name right, you probably shouldn't be calling anybody idiots.

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Old
02-06-2010, 08:53 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
Leafs fans need to stop bringing Kabs into every trade. Chechoo + 1st for Poni. You dump a salary; in return we get a 1st.
I hope your joking

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02-06-2010, 08:54 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Slave View Post
Two Scenarios.

1.

Poni for Foligno straight up.

2.

Poni for Shannon + 2nd
I like the second one. I think both sides could live with that

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