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Old
02-11-2010, 07:35 AM
  #1
Naoned
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New Brunet article on the Habs drafting

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...perception.php

Nice piece once again.

Article in french


Last edited by Habs 4 Life: 02-11-2010 at 08:35 AM.
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Old
02-11-2010, 07:48 AM
  #2
Dirty Danglez
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good piece. I don't undervalue timmins, I just wish for a kopitar, parise, getzlaf and so on. We havn't had on of those young studs in a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BakerNator View Post
Why post a French article with no translation on an English board?
Google translate. do it yourself.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-11-2010 at 08:11 AM. Reason: Merge
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Old
02-11-2010, 07:58 AM
  #3
WestIslander
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This can be debated on and on but I still think that Gainey and Timmins drafted above average NHL players between 2003 and 2009.

Here are the ones that I feel they missed the boat on though:

2003: Carter, Brown, Seabrook, Parise, Getzlaf, Kesler, Richards and Perry
2004: Zajac, Wolski, Schneider and Green
2005: Kopitar
2006: Giroux, Berglund and Foligno
2007: Perron
2008: Carlson


Last edited by WestIslander: 02-11-2010 at 08:05 AM.
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Old
02-11-2010, 08:07 AM
  #4
Habs10Habs
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That's not the point, this is first and foremost an English board. The OP should have at least provided a brief summary of what the article entailed.

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02-11-2010, 08:39 AM
  #5
alexstream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
This can be debated on and on but I still think that Gainey and Timmins drafted above average NHL players between 2003 and 2009.

Here are the ones that I feel they missed the boat on though:

2003: Carter, Brown, Seabrook, Parise, Getzlaf, Kesler, Richards and Perry
2004: Zajac, Wolski, Schneider and Green
2005: Kopitar
2006: Giroux, Berglund and Foligno
2007: Perron
2008: Carlson
dude.

instead of focusing on the luck of every other GMs...
focus on one.

you think Philly drafted better than MTL? (Richards and Carter) or Anaheim (Corry, Getzlaf)
well, go the whole nine yards and analyse whether or not Philly did better in those 6 years.
heck, Timmins is very good, but he can't be the ONE BEST every year. He dug gold with Subban, Halak, S. Kost, Streit... etc
but got screwed with a few others, that's how life goes man.

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02-11-2010, 08:40 AM
  #6
Thorn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BakerNator View Post
Why post a French article with no translation on an English board?
Basically the article talks about how the Montreal media and fans have the "grass is always greener on the other side" perspective when it comes to the draft. Saying that while we could have drafted Perron or Giroux that there is no guarantee they would perform the same way here. In fact compared to his first season Perron might be viewed by some as regressing. Continuing with the Perron example, St. Louis had 3 first round picks that year, their first two no one remembers and it wasn't until their third choice they picked Perron.

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02-11-2010, 08:42 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
dude.

instead of focusing on the luck of every other GMs...
focus on one.

you think Philly drafted better than MTL? (Richards and Carter) or Anaheim (Corry, Getzlaf)
well, go the whole nine yards and analyse whether or not Philly did better in those 6 years.
heck, Timmins is very good, but he can't be the ONE BEST every year. He dug gold with Subban, Halak, S. Kost, Streit... etc
but got screwed with a few others, that's how life goes man.
This is pretty much a perfect example of what the article is talking about. People saying we could have drafted so-and-so instead but failing to point out how these other teams did overall over that span.

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02-11-2010, 08:44 AM
  #8
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Brunet nails it again. Familiarity breeds contempt in Montreal, and we're very, very quick to decry our own people. Outside observers may not have the same familiarity but they also have more detachment. Also, when it comes to drafting, people evaluate the Habs' work without comparing to what's done elsewhere in the league, or rather, they compare the Habs' entire body of work to a handful of specific home runs made by other teams. That's just not how it works. In reality, Timmins remains one of the very best in the business.

I'll always remember Villeneuve screaming about how few of their own draft picks the Habs had... when at the time they were tied for third-most in the NHL.

Here's another fun fact: more active NHLers were drafted by Montreal than any other team. They are an extremely good drafting team.

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Old
02-11-2010, 08:44 AM
  #9
Teufelsdreck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
This can be debated on and on but I still think that Gainey and Timmins drafted above average NHL players between 2003 and 2009.

Here are the ones that I feel they missed the boat on though:

2003: Carter, Brown, Seabrook, Parise, Getzlaf, Kesler, Richards and Perry
2004: Zajac, Wolski, Schneider and Green
2005: Kopitar
2006: Giroux, Berglund and Foligno
2007: Perron
2008: Carlson
You didn't name the Habs who were picked instead in the first round.
The worst misjudgments came when they chose Chipchura (2004) and Fischer (2006). They missed out in 2008 because they traded their selection for Tanguay as a rental player. I was hoping they would take Meszaros in 2004.

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02-11-2010, 08:47 AM
  #10
alexstream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naoned View Post
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...perception.php

Nice piece once again.

Article in french
(sketchy) ABSTRACT

-Everything is a question of perception
-While fans are puking all over the place on Timmins pick because of d'Ago, Pacio and David Fischer, guys like Scott Burnside are praising Timmins big time.
-d'Ago is only a 6th round pick, one of only two of that draft year to have played NHL games (the other is Tim Kennedy)
-Pacio is one of 7 of that draft year (2007) to have played NHL games, 4 of which were picked in the top 4 of that draft. He's still really young, yadayadayay.
-Fans blast Timmins for skipping Perron and Giroux, but with their actual stats, they are no better than Guillaume Latendresse was with us, and Lats was "qualified" as a bust by most of the fans. [my comment : greener in the neighbour courtyard] Had both of these guys played here, the expections would have been higher and similar thing to lats might have happened.
-Every other team before the Habs (Fischer) on Giroux year skipped Giroux and they mostly all picked guys who are not there yet (Mitera, Wyshart)
-Subban (2nd round) might become better than most of the other players of his brass

an amazing total of 12 players drafted by the habs between 2003 and 2006 [my comment : I think it's more than any other team in the NHL] are playing in NHL right now, eight of which were drafted in 2004 and 2005 [my comment : 2006 is still early, since Fischer is still very young!].

NAME - NHL Games played
Mark Streit 335

Guillaume Latendresse 263

Maxim Lapierre 236

Andrei Kostitsyn 226

Mikhail Grabovski 147

Sergei Kostitsyn 132

Carey Price 126

Ryan O'Byrne 100

Kyle Chipchura 97

Matt D'Agostini 90

Max Pacioretty 86

Jaroslav Halak 82

Gregory Stewart 26

Ryan White 16

Ben Maxwell 11

Yannick Weber 8

Mathieu Carle 3

Corey Locke 1

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Old
02-11-2010, 08:48 AM
  #11
loudi94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeCammalleri View Post
good piece. I don't undervalue timmins, I just wish for a kopitar, parise, getzlaf and so on. We havn't had on of those young studs in a while.



Google translate. do it yourself.
And then when I interpret it wrong, somebody comes on here and becomes critical of me. The translators don't work like they should. However, if this is the attitude our bilingual neighbours are going to have, perhaps I will take all babelfish translations literally when adding my two cents.

"The others, like Pacioretty, Subban, Kristo, Leblanc and Weber, are still in gestation."

Interesting translation....Man those french reporters are weird....

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Old
02-11-2010, 08:51 AM
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FrankMTL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
This can be debated on and on but I still think that Gainey and Timmins drafted above average NHL players between 2003 and 2009.

Here are the ones that I feel they missed the boat on though:

2003: Carter, Brown, Seabrook, Parise, Getzlaf, Kesler, Richards and Perry
2004: Zajac, Wolski, Schneider and Green
2005: Kopitar
2006: Giroux, Berglund and Foligno
2007: Perron
2008: Carlson
They didn't even have a first round pick in 2008 as they traded it to Calgary for Alex Tanguay. Also, many teams missed on these players, not just the Montreal Canadiens....There's never been a perfect drafting team, they all make mistakes.

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02-11-2010, 08:51 AM
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alexstream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
"The others, like Pacioretty, Subban, Kristo, Leblanc and Weber, are still in gestation."

Interesting translation....Man those french reporters are weird....
that's exactly exactly what he said. seriously.

what he meant is that we really don't know how they could turn out and they may develop into great players.

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Old
02-11-2010, 09:09 AM
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JackZap
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Timmins just hasnt hit a home run yet

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Old
02-11-2010, 09:12 AM
  #15
WestIslander
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Quote:
They didn't even have a first round pick in 2008 as they traded it to Calgary for Alex Tanguay. Also, many teams missed on these players, not just the Montreal Canadiens....There's never been a perfect drafting team, they all make mistakes.
It's called not trading away your first round draft pick for a player than is an impending UFA and you have no intention of signing.

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Old
02-11-2010, 09:16 AM
  #16
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At the end of the day, the results just haven't been there, and that's all that counts.

Like Parcells says, "You are what you are".

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Old
02-11-2010, 09:17 AM
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SergeConstantin74
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With the way Avtsin seems to develop in the KHL, do you think he could become Timmins' homerun?

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02-11-2010, 09:22 AM
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Dirty Danglez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
With the way Avtsin seems to develop in the KHL, do you think he could become Timmins' homerun?
I shouldn't judge because I don't watch KHL games, but is 8 pts in 30 games in the KHL really that impressive?

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02-11-2010, 09:27 AM
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SergeConstantin74
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For a 18 yo who plays 8 min a game, yes.

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Old
02-11-2010, 09:28 AM
  #20
Naoned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
That's not the point, this is first and foremost an English board. The OP should have at least provided a brief summary of what the article entailed.
Sorry H10H

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Old
02-11-2010, 10:32 AM
  #21
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nice article from one of the best sport journalist in Montreal and Subban could be Timmins homerun

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Old
02-11-2010, 10:52 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeCammalleri View Post
I shouldn't judge because I don't watch KHL games, but is 8 pts in 30 games in the KHL really that impressive?
It is. We're talking about a teenager playing in the second most skilled league in the world here. In comparison, Ovechkin had 4 points in 21 games in his first year with the Moscow Dynamo, and 15 points in 40 games in his second year.

Edit: Ovechkin started playing in the REL very young it seems. I believe at the same age as Avtsin, Ovy had 23 points in 53 games.

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Old
02-11-2010, 11:03 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
That's not the point, this is first and foremost an English board. The OP should have at least provided a brief summary of what the article entailed.
Fair enough but imo it isn't his responsibility to translate or give a summary really, he found content, he gave it to us, if someone else wants to be a nice guy and translate it awesome, but imo the OP's responsibility ends at making the thread and posting the article.

I'll be the first to admit a brief summary would be nice, but how is it in anyway his responsibility, did he originally comment on it in French? I see tons of French articles people post and flat out say if someone else wants to translate it go right ahead, and nobody ever complains.

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Old
02-11-2010, 11:12 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
It's called not trading away your first round draft pick for a player than is an impending UFA and you have no intention of signing.
How is that Timmins fault though?? And maybe they would have re-signed him if he had been decent with us...I don't agree with the move, and I never did because I always thought Tanguay was soft, but if it would have worked, nobody would have said a thing.

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Old
02-11-2010, 11:23 AM
  #25
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Quote:
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Timmins just hasnt hit a home run yet
I'd consider Halak as a homerun.

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