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Hockey Diet/coniditioning programs

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Old
02-08-2010, 01:56 PM
  #26
WhipNash27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicBomb View Post
If you don't feel like dog crap after a workout, you aren't doing it right. If you don't man up the next day and do it again, you aren't doing it right.

If you are not sore, you aren't doing it right.
lol, soreness feels good. Feeling like crap sucks. I'm not an aspiring professional athlete. I play hockey once or twice a week. I like to be able to enjoy the rest of my day after I work out.

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02-08-2010, 05:37 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by budster View Post
I really hate to oversimplify but diet fads come and go. The most important formula you should know is: calories in < calories out. Is there a specific build you're trying to achieve? Maybe if you state where you are now and where you want to be, some of the guys on this forum could give specific advice to help you achieve your fitness goals.
I'm on the bigger side. I'm looking to lose about 20 pounds and add 10 or so in muscle if that makes since.

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02-08-2010, 06:22 PM
  #28
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If you want to be a good hockey player do the following:

-Olympic lifts. Hockey is all about being explosive, nuff said.
-Sprints. Screw the damn cardio if your already in fairly decent shape. You want speed, explosivness, and endurance; then do your sprints. Pavel Bure used to do 20 sets of 100 metre sprints with 10 seconds between sets. A professional athelete will burn more calories running the 200m race then your *** running a mile. Sprints will get you in shape, believe me.
-Other plyometrics. Again, hockey is all about being explosive.
-Core work. No I don't make houndreds of crunches, do planks, weight sit ups, russian twist ect. All the movements in hockey involve your core.
-When you're in the gym, keep primary exercises to the dumbells and barbells, again learn how to do Olympic lifts properly and you will see great results in explosiveness and strength.

But Hey, what does a 14 year old know?

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02-08-2010, 08:16 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
Lots and lots of NHL players ride the bike and run stairs, it's no accident. It works, but I will agree with Scotty on two things, the importance of core strength and explosiveness.

The reason why I brought up endurance first is because that's what most rec leaguers are most lacking, not raw strength or explosiveness (although my experience in location x might be different from your neck of the woods.) However, to be a good player, you must focus on all three areas. It takes a lot of time. Perhaps I erred in not finding out more information about the original poster, so I will say, "my bad".

The key to remember is no other exercise or activity will as effectively work out all the muscles used in hockey, as hockey itself. If you identify weaknesses you have that aren't naturally improving, then feel free to go to the gym to improve that, but don't get hooked on lifting weights as the ultimate solution.
I cannot count how many pros have said on TV that what helped them going into overtime games when their legs would have just given out after playing 20+ minutes/game is the endless hours on the stationary bike. One player said he just rides like, forever...

I ride 25 miles+ 4 times per week, and even doing hard end-to-end sprints on the ice doesn't wind me that much - and I'm an over-40 over-the-hill chocolate chip cookie, cheeseburger-and-fries devourer...


Last edited by nystromshairstylist: 02-08-2010 at 08:26 PM.
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02-08-2010, 11:34 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicBomb View Post
Traditional Squats
Box Squats
Front Squats
Deadlifts
Milk.

Seriously. You do not need upper body strength, but every hockey player should be squatting. Note: This is not a powerlifter squat with a wide stance that just barely breaks 90 degree. You should be squatting deep and exploding out of the hole as hard as you can. You should feel like vomiting after every set.

Also: Plyometrics. And rest.
A wide stance is actually very sport specific, it gives you a lot of strength in the hips and hamstrings. I agree about going deeper than barely parallel, but you should know powerlifters train deep, then just don't have to go that deep during competitions. I definitely hate squatting, but it's been so amazing for sports that I just do it and hope I don't pass out lol. That said, why not get upper body strength? Your body can only get an x number of leg workouts per week to continue progress. During the rest time, why not get an advantage over everyone else and add some upper body strength?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
HIIT is great, but you feel like complete and utter crap when you're done. You have to be in great shape to do it more than a few times per week.

With most workouts, I feel really good when I'm done. With HIIT I feel like I wanna die.
Agreed. I think a good way is to start with 3 minute tabatas, or just do a 4 minute tabata finisher at the end. A friend of mine on this site suggested 8 minutes on the bike 30 secs on, 30 secs off. I think that's a good idea. It's insane how good it is for getting in shape though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicBomb View Post
If you don't feel like dog crap after a workout, you aren't doing it right. If you don't man up the next day and do it again, you aren't doing it right.

If you are not sore, you aren't doing it right.
Gotta disagree with you there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liveforthegame View Post
If you want to be a good hockey player do the following:

-Olympic lifts. Hockey is all about being explosive, nuff said.
-Sprints. Screw the damn cardio if your already in fairly decent shape. You want speed, explosivness, and endurance; then do your sprints. Pavel Bure used to do 20 sets of 100 metre sprints with 10 seconds between sets. A professional athelete will burn more calories running the 200m race then your *** running a mile. Sprints will get you in shape, believe me.
-Other plyometrics. Again, hockey is all about being explosive.
-Core work. No I don't make houndreds of crunches, do planks, weight sit ups, russian twist ect. All the movements in hockey involve your core.
-When you're in the gym, keep primary exercises to the dumbells and barbells, again learn how to do Olympic lifts properly and you will see great results in explosiveness and strength.

But Hey, what does a 14 year old know?
A lot apparently.

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Old
02-08-2010, 11:51 PM
  #31
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So I've thought about it a lot, and come up with this. EVERYONE needs to work on both endurance, explosiveness and strength, but at what ratio? It really depends on you, there can be no universal formula.

My personal feeling is that at lower levels, endurance is lacking as much or more than anything. I know I often feel that's the case for myself. But that's not true for everyone. Endurance can also be upped by playing hockey and forcing yourself to play balls out.

Here's a good example if you need explosiveness though:

Day 1: 20 minutes of various plyometrics (they'll wear you out fast), 15 minutes jogging, 5 minutes walking to wind down. You should be quite worn out when finished and sore the next day.
Day 2: Stretching and rest.
Day 3: Swimming for 45m, exercise bike for 45 minutes.
Day 4: Stretch, and rest.
Day 5: Jog 20 minutes, then rest for a half hour and do squats and or lunges. Wear yourself out.
Day 6: Stretch and rest
Day 7: Plyometrics and walking and jogging, same as day 1.

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Old
02-09-2010, 05:11 AM
  #32
hoonking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
So I've thought about it a lot, and come up with this. EVERYONE needs to work on both endurance, explosiveness and strength, but at what ratio? It really depends on you, there can be no universal formula.

My personal feeling is that at lower levels, endurance is lacking as much or more than anything. I know I often feel that's the case for myself. But that's not true for everyone. Endurance can also be upped by playing hockey and forcing yourself to play balls out.

Here's a good example if you need explosiveness though:

Day 1: 20 minutes of various plyometrics (they'll wear you out fast), 15 minutes jogging, 5 minutes walking to wind down. You should be quite worn out when finished and sore the next day.
Day 2: Stretching and rest.
Day 3: Swimming for 45m, exercise bike for 45 minutes.
Day 4: Stretch, and rest.
Day 5: Jog 20 minutes, then rest for a half hour and do squats and or lunges. Wear yourself out.
Day 6: Stretch and rest
Day 7: Plyometrics and walking and jogging, same as day 1.
I'm not going to comment on the workout but I do hope you don't mean 45 meters.

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Old
02-09-2010, 08:00 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by hoonking View Post
I'm not going to comment on the workout but I do hope you don't mean 45 meters.
Lol exactly what i thought.

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02-09-2010, 08:49 AM
  #34
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I thought of this when considering taking up the sport, perhaps if we called our local NHL team's trainer he might provide us with the diet/conditioning regimen given to the players.

It would probably be much more strenuous than needed for rec-league play, but used as a broad plan from which you could pick and choose the exercise and diet aspects you feel are most worthwhile and suitable to your ability/energy and skill level.

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02-09-2010, 09:21 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by MJAYK View Post
Lol exactly what i thought.
I don't want to be mean to donG but it isn't his place to give advice on workouts. I understand the original posters desire to look for help in the hockey forum but it might benefit him more to look somewhere like bodybuilding.com where there are many people who workout for their respective sports and can give them a good workout. There are some knowledgable people here though, however there are some not so knowledgable.

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02-09-2010, 10:15 AM
  #36
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As a beer-leaguer playing at a lower level, I've noticed that most guys don't work out (anymore... older team). The ones that do will go to the gym 1-2x and hit the weights for a bit, then use hockey as a form of cardio. The one fitness freak in the group (pushing 50) has been diagnosed w/ an irregular heartbeat, and may be hanging up the skates.

As you move up the ranks, you'll notice that hockey is just hockey, and many don't count it as a workout. At the higher levels you'll see guys doing full workouts on game days or hitting the gym after a hard practice to try and constantly improve.

Now, you have to ask yourself where you fit within this spectrum. If you're serious about training with hockey performance as your #1 goal, ignore most of what's in here (there is some good advice) and buy a copy of Peter Twist's hockey conditioning book, or find another resource from a professional. If you're not, focus on general fitness, but try to incorporate some things that will help your hockey as well.

Here's my take on the "controversy" in the thread:

On the bodyweight vs free weights vs plyometrics argument... I think that all three are important. If you can only do 3 pushups and not even 1/4 of a pullup, stay away from the weights. Weightless lunges and squats should be mastered with relative ease before you try plyometrics or weights for your lower body. In addition to training for explosiveness and speed, plyos also require good general strength to stabilize muscles and joints. Without that strength, you run the risk of injury to joints and ligaments. It's important to keep both plyometrics and weightlifting in your program. I like spending some time focusing soley on weights, then spending some time soley on plyos. I admittedly spend more time on plyos... I hate the gym I think of it as weightlifting to build size/strength, and plyometrics to maximize strength/power.


On aerobic vs anaerobic cardio.... they're both important for a hockey player. A beginner should focus on aerobic capacity first, especially if they are out of shape. If 20 mins at a low resistance on the bike has you gasping for air, a HIIT program could give you a heart attack. Aerobics will help condition your heart and lungs. From a hockey perspective, aerobic capacity allows you to recover more quickly and fully while on the bench, which allows to you perform well as the game progresses. Once you have a solid aerobic base, you'll be ready for anaerobic training. Anaerobic training simulates a hockey game... you're going all out for a short period, then taking a slightly longer rest. In addition to training your heart and lungs, your speed, explosiveness, and power will be improved. Anaerobic training also helps to sustain/improve your aerobic capacity, and should be your primary focus for cardio.


Also remember that in-season and off-season training are entirely different beasts. I do most of my long-distance jogging early in the summer, and try to get in a lot of strength training + plyos. In-season training is mostly about maintenance for me.

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02-09-2010, 10:19 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicBomb View Post
Traditional Squats
Box Squats
Front Squats
Deadlifts
Milk.

Seriously. You do not need upper body strength, but every hockey player should be squatting. Note: This is not a powerlifter squat with a wide stance that just barely breaks 90 degree. You should be squatting deep and exploding out of the hole as hard as you can. You should feel like vomiting after every set.

Also: Plyometrics. And rest.
You do need core strength, which is part of your upper body (to me anything below the waist is lower body). Also, having a strong upper body is still good to have. While the majority of your strength comes from your lower body & core, the rest of the upper body still contributes. As has been said, you can only work out your legs at most twice, maybe three times a week. Three times is probably pushing it. So why not just do upper body in between?

Also, if you're playing hockey, I doubt you'll want to play a day or so after lifting. It kills your performance when your legs are still recovering.

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02-09-2010, 04:21 PM
  #38
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Hey guys, since there's already a thread on this, I was just looking for a little advice. I'm starting to do some lifting, partly to help with hockey, partly just to give it a shot as I've never really done it before. Friend of mine read Starting Strength by Rippetoe like a year ago and has been lifting by it since, so I got him to start teaching me. I already exercise a bit, 3x a week cardio/general workout stuff (runs/sprints with pushups, situps, leglifts, etc) and play twice a week so I don't really need anything on that front.

Lifting 3x a week, doing squats, a press, and a pull. Planning alternating:

Squats
Bench Press
Deadlift

Squats
Overhead Press
Power Clean

Starting pretty low and moving up 5-10 pounds on each for each workout. Is there anything else simple I could do to that will help improve specially for hockey?

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Old
02-09-2010, 04:38 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by FootKnight View Post
Hey guys, since there's already a thread on this, I was just looking for a little advice. I'm starting to do some lifting, partly to help with hockey, partly just to give it a shot as I've never really done it before. Friend of mine read Starting Strength by Rippetoe like a year ago and has been lifting by it since, so I got him to start teaching me. I already exercise a bit, 3x a week cardio/general workout stuff (runs/sprints with pushups, situps, leglifts, etc) and play twice a week so I don't really need anything on that front.

Lifting 3x a week, doing squats, a press, and a pull. Planning alternating:

Squats
Bench Press
Deadlift

Squats
Overhead Press
Power Clean

Starting pretty low and moving up 5-10 pounds on each for each workout. Is there anything else simple I could do to that will help improve specially for hockey?
When I first started training I was do Starting Strength. It's one of the best routines out there to make your "newb" gains explode.

In 4 months my stats went something like bench 140lbs to 195, squat 195 to 315, deadlift 175 to 265. Over the past 5 months since I've stopped doing Starting Strength my gains haven't been that good, though these were newb gains. Great program to develope your strength to get to your next level. I think I may even go back to it to see if I can get those same results haha. If your wondering how much gains I've made in the last 5 months, they aren't nearly as good as those first 4 months of Starting Strength. Bench is at 225lbs, squat 350lbs, deadlift 315 lbs.

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Old
02-09-2010, 09:20 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by liveforthegame View Post
When I first started training I was do Starting Strength. It's one of the best routines out there to make your "newb" gains explode.

In 4 months my stats went something like bench 140lbs to 195, squat 195 to 315, deadlift 175 to 265. Over the past 5 months since I've stopped doing Starting Strength my gains haven't been that good, though these were newb gains. Great program to develope your strength to get to your next level. I think I may even go back to it to see if I can get those same results haha. If your wondering how much gains I've made in the last 5 months, they aren't nearly as good as those first 4 months of Starting Strength. Bench is at 225lbs, squat 350lbs, deadlift 315 lbs.
Somewhere on that website is a great intermediate template for those who can squat 1.5 to 2x their body weight.

I suffered a serious spiral fracture to my right arm and have been regaining strength through Westside for skinny ********. I currently have 4 practices + 1 plyometrics session a week and do not think that I could handle squatting three times on top of that or I would be using starting strength to get back to where I was.

Also, when I said upper body strength didn't matter, I meant that outside of oly-lifts and bench pressing you shouldn't worry about it. I just assumed everyone bench presses. I meant curls other isolation exercises were not needed.

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02-09-2010, 11:09 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by LogicBomb View Post
Somewhere on that website is a great intermediate template for those who can squat 1.5 to 2x their body weight.

I suffered a serious spiral fracture to my right arm and have been regaining strength through Westside for skinny ********. I currently have 4 practices + 1 plyometrics session a week and do not think that I could handle squatting three times on top of that or I would be using starting strength to get back to where I was.

Also, when I said upper body strength didn't matter, I meant that outside of oly-lifts and bench pressing you shouldn't worry about it. I just assumed everyone bench presses. I meant curls other isolation exercises were not needed.
Benching is nearly useless compared to other upper body exercises. The upper back and shoulders provide a lot more complex hockey strength than the pecs. Military press ftw.

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Old
02-10-2010, 01:40 AM
  #42
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Well, first, every NHL, ECHL, WHL, IHL...etc, team all have weight rooms at their rink or training facilities. I on the other hand do not have one at home. I got rid of it in my garage and replaced it with a Goldwing Trike.

But in every pro and semi-pro facility you will find rows of stationary bikes with TV screens in front of each bike. The purpose for these bikes are used for warm up and cool down of muscles.

Most player will do about 20 to 30 minutes on these bikes before they do their main workout. However, the majority of most hockey players on this site probably don't have a weight room at their home as well, or don't even own a membership to their local gym.

To get around all of this demanding stuff, I recommend that you invest in a couple of dumbells that weight just a little more then you can handle after pumping them about 5 times. You can do a sh** load of drills with just two weights, and they don't cost that much. I use 20lbs each and that good enought for what I need to do.

Second, I recommend a good dryland workout. I have posted a dryland program on this forum in the past. Let me see if I can find it and send you the link. Or if you want, I have about 8 dryland videos you can watch on my facebook account. Send me a PM request and I will send you the facebook link.

Finally, the diet! It all depends on what you want to accomplish. Do you want to bulk up...eat carbs! If you want to repair muscles after a big workout...eat proteins!
However, I recommend 6 meals a day.
  1. Breakfast: Standard (2 Eggs, Toast, Water)
  2. Snack: Fruit...Glass of water.
  3. Lunch: Chicken Salad Sandwich, Grapes, Apple...Glass of water.
  4. Snack: Fruit / Peanuts...Glass of water
  5. Dinner: Chicken/Beef/Seafood/...Salad or Veggies and...a glass of water
  6. Snack: 2 Hard boiled eggs before 9:00 PM...yes and a glass of water.

Notice that I have you drinking a sh** load of water. Stay away from softdrinks, Coffee and some teas. All of them have caffeine and that's not good for the body. Caffeine actually increases the size of the blood vessels in the body and brain. However, if you don't have more Caffeine, the blood vessels go back to their normal size. The problem is, your body get use to the unrestricted blood flow and once the vessel goes back to normal, you will get headaches....aka: Migraines.

Plus, water will help you flush out that lactic acid within your body. This is why I don't recommend you go and drink your urine like some crazy boxers do. Urine is about 95% lactic acid. Besides, your teeth will go bad and fall out. Oh they will be nice and white, the girl will wonder why you smell like a toilet...LOL.

Lactic acid is the by-product of Glucose (Sugar) converted into energy. Once this product (acid) starts to build up in the muscle, the muscle starts to cramp. That's just your bodys way of telling you that you have too much acid.

Now, when you are on the ice and you are about 8 seconds into your shift, you will start feeling that build up in your thighs....that is if you are bending your knees at that 90 degree piston type move....aka: Stride!

After about 8 second, it starts to hurt a little. So the average hockey player start to stand up to relieve the pian. However, standing up also make your stride go to hell in a hand basket. Then you get a guy like me on the bench yelling at you to get the he** off...you lazy piece of sh**! Well, probably not like that. Hockey players are sensitive.

Ok, so how to you get more bang for your buck in your stride...so to speak? For every minute of work, you will need two minutes of rest. This will help you get this lactic acid out of the muscle. But in order to do this, you will need to drink water to help push this acid out. Yes, I can hear it now..."Don't drink water on the bench!"

However, if you want to help flush this acid out...drink it! Yes, I know you don't like drinking water on the bench because you are not thursty. Drink it anyways! It's about flushing the acid, not about if you are thursty.

Finally....rest! If you are a crazy nut, like I use to be, work on your upper body one day and your lower body the next day. If that too much for you, go every other day with a weight training system and watch or jog or treadmill on the days that you are not doing weights.

That's my two cents!

Hope it helps.
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02-10-2010, 05:25 AM
  #43
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Benching is nearly useless compared to other upper body exercises. The upper back and shoulders provide a lot more complex hockey strength than the pecs. Military press ftw.
You know a proper bench press uses more than just the pecs, right....

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02-10-2010, 09:47 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by LogicBomb View Post
You know a proper bench press uses more than just the pecs, right....
No, he doesn't. Just ignore him.

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02-10-2010, 11:11 AM
  #45
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You know a proper bench press uses more than just the pecs, right....
Yes, but those are supplemental. Why not go right for what matters most? Ask Joe Sakic how well bench pressing works for hockey. And how come nobody has mentioned the importance of workings out your calves and ankles? That is one of the MOST crucial body areas overlooked by players and it constantly leads to injury because people don't work them out like they should.

I'm not a grandmaster on this topic, but for anyone who wants to bash me, I haven't pulled any of this stuff out of my rear-end. It's mostly comprised of what semi-pro or high college players have told me. Exercise bike, plyometrics, core work= best return on time investment and most important for hockey. If you don't believe me, go ask a coach, but some of the people here who think they know it all are in for a rude awakening...


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02-10-2010, 02:32 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
Ask Joe Sakic how well bench pressing works for hockey.
According to Peter Twist's book, Sakic would bench 350lbs for reps. He would most likely think bench is a good exercise because there's no way he did that out of nowhere without being very keen on bench press.

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02-10-2010, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by liveforthegame View Post
According to Peter Twist's book, Sakic would bench 350lbs for reps. He would most likely think bench is a good exercise because there's no way he did that out of nowhere without being very keen on bench press.
Yeah, I'd believe that. The story, which I read quite a long time ago in NHL magazine, probably almost 15 years ago, was that he was an undersized kid at 15 or 16 and spent his whole summer in the gym, got obsessed with the bench press etc. His hockey went to crap because he hadn't been skating and working at hockey regularly. If you want to work out sometimes and can still play 2x a week while getting enough rest, it's not a bad idea, but there are usually more efficient time uses for beer leaguers

I did the same thing myself a few years ago and my hockey went to crap too. Hockey= skating is #1 priority.

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02-10-2010, 06:41 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
Yes, but those are supplemental. Why not go right for what matters most? Ask Joe Sakic how well bench pressing works for hockey. And how come nobody has mentioned the importance of workings out your calves and ankles? That is one of the MOST crucial body areas overlooked by players and it constantly leads to injury because people don't work them out like they should.

I'm not a grandmaster on this topic, but for anyone who wants to bash me, I haven't pulled any of this stuff out of my rear-end. It's mostly comprised of what semi-pro or high college players have told me. Exercise bike, plyometrics, core work= best return on time investment and most important for hockey. If you don't believe me, go ask a coach, but some of the people here who think they know it all are in for a rude awakening...
The NHL Draft Combine has a bench press test.

Let me repeat that for you. The NHL Draft combine has a bench press test. 150 pounds - I believe the prospect average is around 10 reps. These are kids. They would not be able to complete 10 reps of 150 pounds without actually bench pressing before the combine.

The people who are stating that you can only workout X amount are also wrong. Work capacity varies a great deal from person to person. Furthermore, things such as rest, diet, supplementation, and steroid use can greatly decrease the time needed between workouts.

I currently have the following routine:

Monday AM: Weights immediately followed by a meal and a 40 minute nap. PM: Endurance based practice

Tuesday: PM: Skill practice

Wednesday AM: Leg weights immediately followed by a meal and a nap.

Thursday Rest Day

Friday: AM Weights immediately followed by a meal and a nap. PM: Situational drills + situational scrimmaging.

Saturday: AM: A run, yoga, nap.

Sunday: PM: Competitive Scrimmaging

By timing things a certain way, it becomes possible to get enough rest. All workouts include 15 minutes of wamrups and 15 minutes of stretching. A nap following proper nutrition kick starts the recovery process.

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02-20-2010, 09:19 PM
  #49
#66
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Just spent some time in the hospital. To make a long story short, I had an injury, didn't take care of it, had it get infected, didn't take care of that and came very close to losing my arm.

Just wanted to say thanks to you guys for the great posts. Lots of good info to get me back in shape.

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Old
02-20-2010, 11:24 PM
  #50
WhipNash27
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I just started P90X this week. It's been kicking my ass. My whole body was sore pretty much all week. The only thing is that I'm not really sticking to it like I should. I've been skipping Ab ripper X because I'm usually shot by the end of each workout. I skipped Yoga this week because it's an hour and a half and I didn't have time for that. I'm getting Tony Horton's 45 minute version of Yoga, I'll try that. I skipped Kenpo this week to play hockey instead (I think that's a good trade off). Other than that, yeah, I'm usually a sweaty mess after I'm done with each workout.

Plyometrics was definitely the hardest so far and the one I think I'm going to look most forward to each time. Love the possibilities that it may have for hockey.
Chest & Back was a whole lot of push ups and pull ups, very hard. I hope that when I'm done I can do large sets of pull ups like they are nothing.
Arms & Shoulders usually in groups of threes. Shoulders, Biceps, Triceps. The Shoulder exercises are brutal. Biceps involve a curls and such.
Legs & Back, more pull ups, lots of lunges, some squat type exercises and such. Not much weight involved, but it still kills.

Arms & Shoulders and Legs & Back weren't as hard as I thought that they'd be. Legs & back was hard, but I already have pretty strong legs so it wasn't as bad. Although being more flexible would have helped a lot.


Last edited by WhipNash27: 02-20-2010 at 11:30 PM.
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