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Toronto- Philly

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Old
02-07-2010, 09:50 AM
  #1
DougGilmour93
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Toronto- Philly

This is based on IF Kaberle waives his NTC. (I know, a big IF)


To Philadelphia:
A. Ponikarovsky
T. Kaberle

To Toronto:
S.Hartnell (somewhat of a salary dump)
C.Giroux
B.Coburn/1st in 2010


Thoughts? Suggestions?

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Old
02-07-2010, 09:50 AM
  #2
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Terrible. You're not going to like the responses you get on this one.

Let me put it this way, the Flyers didn't even move that package for Kovalchuk.

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Old
02-07-2010, 09:52 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
This is based on IF Kaberle waives his NTC. (I know, a big IF)


To Philadelphia:
A. Ponikarovsky
T. Kaberle

To Toronto:
S.Hartnell (somewhat of a salary dump)
C.Giroux
B.Coburn/1st in 2010


Thoughts? Suggestions?
How about the fact that Scott Hartnell would have to waive also. Which really wont happen

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Old
02-07-2010, 09:52 AM
  #4
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Its a very fair and reasonable trade. I think most flyers fans would agree that it is fair but would be reluctant to do it as they do not NEED Kaberle.

But calling this trade "terrible" shows a lack of understanding/knowledge of opposing teams players. Even as a Habs fan i can appreciate how valuable Kaberle is.

Too many NTC's involved though so near impossible to make.

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Old
02-07-2010, 09:54 AM
  #5
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Id say the value is probably there.
but Flyers fans, and management are sold on Giroux and i think he is going no where.

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:00 AM
  #6
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Are people serious right now??? That value is ****.

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:02 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Are people serious right now??? That value is ****.
For the Leafs? Maybe. Kaberle is extremely valuable as he is not a rental, is producing at a high rate and has a very reasonable salary. In fact it is my understanding that Kaberle ranks 2nd among point producing d-men since the lockout. Of course Kabs would be worth Giroux in return or better.

Poni for a salary dump in Hartnell (on pace for 43 pts and 4.2+ million dollar salary) is good value for the Flyers.

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02-07-2010, 10:04 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Its a very fair and reasonable trade. I think most flyers fans would agree that it is fair but would be reluctant to do it as they do not NEED Kaberle.

But calling this trade "terrible" shows a lack of understanding/knowledge of opposing teams players. Even as a Habs fan i can appreciate how valuable Kaberle is.

Too many NTC's involved though so near impossible to make.
Stop trolling. It's a terrible trade because

1) The Flyers don't need defense.

2) Poni's offense doesn't come near making up for the offense lost by both Hartnell and Giroux.

3) Flyers have to add Coburn or a first on top of it.

You'll find that most Flyers fans don't agree with FanHabtic.

Fair value in your mind doesn't exist. Fair value is based on the needs of each team. In a perfect vacuum based on the primes of each player, the Flyers still give up far too much. So, I don't know what you mean by fair value. This isn't fair by any definition of fair value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
For the Leafs? Maybe. Kaberle is extremely valuable as he is not a rental, is producing at a high rate and has a very reasonable salary. In fact it is my understanding that Kaberle ranks 2nd among point producing d-men since the lockout. Of course Kabs would be worth Giroux in return or better.

Poni for a salary dump in Hartnell (on pace for 43 pts and 4.2+ million dollar salary) is good value for the Flyers.
Kaberle is not worth Giroux in return or better. He's certainly not worth Giroux and Coburn/1st even if Poni for Hartnell is a Flyers' win.

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:13 AM
  #9
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Think the Flyers are overpaying with the inclusion of Giroux. I'd probably do the deal if you replaced Giroux with a prospect. What are the Leafs needs?

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02-07-2010, 10:15 AM
  #10
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I will be extremely upset with the Flyers management if they trade Giroux. Extremely upset.

We have no interest in Kaberle. If I were to be interested in Kaberle,

Gagne and Coburn
for
Kaberle and cap space.

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:16 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Stop trolling. It's a terrible trade because

1) The Flyers don't need defense.

2) Poni's offense doesn't come near making up for the offense lost by both Hartnell and Giroux.

3) Flyers have to add Coburn or a first on top of it.

You'll find that most Flyers fans don't agree with FanHabtic.

Fair value in your mind doesn't exist. Fair value is based on the needs of each team. In a perfect vacuum based on the primes of each player, the Flyers still give up far too much. So, I don't know what you mean by fair value. This isn't fair by any definition of fair value.


Kaberle is not worth Giroux in return or better. He's certainly not worth Giroux and Coburn/1st even if Poni for Hartnell is a Flyers' win.
THe post above is comical. Hartnell is a penalty prone goon who is producing at a pace of 43 pts with a salary of 4.2 million. He is hardly an asset.

Kaberle is extremely valuable and worth Giroux in return. There is no question about that. Its a fair trade value - wise. You are too much of a homer to see it.

Anyone who boldly states that Emery is a franchise goaltender should exclude themselves from any debate about player values. Not naming names but Chris knows who he is...

As for team needs i agree that the Flyers don't need Kaberle. BUt don't discount Kabby's value.

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02-07-2010, 10:17 AM
  #12
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as a leaf fan.....this is big time skewed in our favour.

take out the obvious facts that giroux is not getting traded anytime soon and just look at it from a value standpoint.

imo poni for hartnell might be workable but i see no way that burke can pull off a kabs for giroux heist.

philly....im jealous, he is going to be awsome for you.!!!

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:18 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
THe post above is comical. Hartnell is a penalty prone goon who is producing at a pace of 43 pts with a salary of 4.2 million. He is hardly an asset.

Kaberle is extremely valuable and worth Giroux in return. There is no question about that. Its a fair trade value - wise. You are too much of a homer to see it.

Anyone who boldly states that Emery is a franchise goaltender should exclude themselves from any debate about player values. Not naming names but Chris knows who he is...

As for team needs i agree that the Flyers don't need Kaberle. BUt don't discount Kabby's value.
If you had Giroux would you trade him straight up for Kaberle?

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:18 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
I will be extremely upset with the Flyers management if they trade Giroux. Extremely upset.

We have no interest in Kaberle. If I were to be interested in Kaberle,

Gagne and Coburn
for
Kaberle and cap space.
As much as I think that's a solid return for Kabs, I'm not sure a rebuilding team is looking to add a vet like Gagne, especially with his injury history. I'm no expert on the Leafs, but I'd expect they're looking for picks, prospects, and kids ready to break out in the NHL next season. Hence the interest in Giroux.

I could see Burke taking interest in Coburn as a project, though.

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:19 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Kaberle is extremely valuable and worth Giroux in return. There is no question about that. Its a fair trade value - wise. You are too much of a homer to see it.
Sure it might be fair trade value wise... but I honestly see a playmaking Paul Kariya is Giroux. He's unbelievable on the ice with the puck... With the addition of Pronger... we don't need Kaberle. We need a shutdown 4th/5 Dman and we need Syvrett and Parent back.

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:21 AM
  #16
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1. We don't need Kaberle, so the basis of this trade is off from the beginning.

2. The FLYERS wouldn't trade Giroux straight up for Kaberle, Giroux has more value to us because of his cheap contract, and our non-existent need for Kaberle

3. We don't have a first round pick in 2010.

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02-07-2010, 10:21 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
As much as I think that's a solid return for Kabs, I'm not sure a rebuilding team is looking to add a vet like Gagne, especially with his injury history. I'm no expert on the Leafs, but I'd expect they're looking for picks, prospects, and kids ready to break out in the NHL next season. Hence the interest in Giroux.

I could see Burke taking interest in Coburn as a project, though.
Understandable. He would provide at least three solid seasons of leadership and experience. Can't go too young without someone there to guide them.

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:22 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
Sure it might be fair trade value wise... but I honestly see a playmaking Paul Kariya is Giroux. He's unbelievable on the ice with the puck... With the addition of Pronger... we don't need Kaberle. We need a shutdown 4th/5 Dman and we need Syvrett and Parent back.
I think Giroux is a fantastic player which is why putting him in a trade (value wise) for Kaberle is extremely complimentary to Giroux.

Value wise the trade is fair. For anyone to claim it is not fair value-wise is being disengenous or a blatant homer.

Team needs wise it does not address the Flyers needs so it is impossible to pull off.

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:23 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Terrible. You're not going to like the responses you get on this one.

Let me put it this way, the Flyers didn't even move that package for Kovalchuk.
I agree that the trade doesn't work, I was just expecting Hartnell and Giroux.

I would say that Kaberle and Poni may have more value as Kabs has another year at a bargain contract.

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Old
02-07-2010, 10:23 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
I think Giroux is a fantastic player which is why putting him in a trade (value wise) for Kaberle is extremely complimentary to Giroux.

Value wise the trade is fair. For anyone to claim it is not fair value-wise is being disengenous or a blatant homer.

Team needs wise it does not address the Flyers needs so it is impossible to pull off.


Answer my question. If you had Giroux, would you trade him straight up for Kaberle?


Last edited by GKJ: 02-07-2010 at 10:47 AM.
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Old
02-07-2010, 10:27 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
As much as I think that's a solid return for Kabs, I'm not sure a rebuilding team is looking to add a vet like Gagne, especially with his injury history. I'm no expert on the Leafs, but I'd expect they're looking for picks, prospects, and kids ready to break out in the NHL next season. Hence the interest in Giroux.

I could see Burke taking interest in Coburn as a project, though.
I can see Burke happily taking on a salary dump if he got his hands on a good young player. Burke has already said he'll happily take on hefty salaries as long as he gets something valuable in return.

I can't see philly wanting Kaberle. Pronger and Timonen seem to be doing an excellent job with the PP and any offence needed fromt he blueline, Carle isn't that bad either.

Their only real weakness up front was their 3rd line, and the Leino pick up sure helps there. If Toronto had a goalie that interested Philly, then they might make a deal.

Especially seeing as how Philly has handled their cap, they are in some minor trouble going forward.

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02-07-2010, 10:32 AM
  #22
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Maybe if Philly needed they could send Toronto some additional salary?

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02-07-2010, 10:37 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
And you blatantly called Emery a franchise goaltender. There is no digging your way around that. Flyers fans were shaking their heads in unison. It was a banner moment for the HFBoards.
Never know.... it is only one season.

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02-07-2010, 10:37 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Are you clueless?

I stated that value-wise the trade is fair.
But team-needs wise the Flyers don't need Kaberle (ie. an offensive producing d-man).

Read before you comment!!

And you blatantly called Emery a franchise goaltender. There is no digging your way around that. Flyers fans were shaking their heads in unison. It was a banner moment for the HFBoards.
Value-wise it's not fair.

The world doesn't exist in a perfect vacuum. There is no such thing as "fair value." There is only what the value is for your specific team in the moment the trade is proposed.

This is by no means fair value.

Even if it was a perfect vacuum, and you had to start a team in a new league, would you go with Giroux + Coburn + Hartnell or would you go with Poni + Kaberle?

I have my mind made up. Not sure about you.

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02-07-2010, 10:39 AM
  #25
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The Kaberle ship sailed from Philly.

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