HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Toronto- Philly

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-07-2010, 05:58 PM
  #76
Tripod
Registered User
 
Tripod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,425
vCash: 500
I just wish everone would realize that for the Flyers, they have 2 elite prospects that are head and shoulders above their other prospects. They are JVR and Giroux. These 2 are untouchable due to their huge upside and cheap contracts. This is why every Flyer fan gets PO'd whenever other teams do proposals for them. Is Kaberle good? Yes...very good. But we added Pronger...we have no need for a #2/#3 d-man...we need a #5(and of course the cheaper contract). I am just getting so tired of the Kaberle to Flyers proposals...so please...just stop.

Tripod is online now  
Old
02-07-2010, 06:02 PM
  #77
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
I said one of those guys or carter would have to go back. However it doesnt man atlanta would want one of those guys, exlcuding carter. Why wouldnt they take briere or gagne? Gee i dont know maybe they are overpaid and they dont want any high ticket players. Maybe they are on the downside of their career and dont want to be stuck with them. As for why wouldnt they want hartnell? What value does hartnell at 4.5mm add to their team? Is he going to help them win games?

Shooter wouldnt be doing his job regardless who may have had to go as he talks to gm's daily. You have your opinion and i have mine. No biggie.
Just like Gomez was overpaid? Oh wait... and he's considered by some on the downside of his career. Ever since the Gomez trade, people are starting to realize anything happens, no matter what how overpaid a player is.

You think Belfores (spelling?) and Oduya are gonna do a better job winning them games?


I know we have different opinions, I just dont understand how you think Gagne/Hartnell/Briere have, pretty much, no trade value....

sa cyred is online now  
Old
02-07-2010, 06:09 PM
  #78
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Just like Gomez was overpaid? Oh wait... and he's considered by some on the downside of his career. Ever since the Gomez trade, people are starting to realize anything happens, no matter what how overpaid a player is.

You think Belfores (spelling?) and Oduya are gonna do a better job winning them games?


I know we have different opinions, I just dont understand how you think Gagne/Hartnell/Briere have, pretty much, no trade value....
To a team like atlanta they dont have any trade value. They gain little by taking on their contracts. No they are not going to do a better job helping them win games now but. They make much less and may or may not help them more in the future. Briere and gagne are nto what atlanta needed.

So what value do you think they have? What teams will take on their contrac without the flyers taking back an equally bad one?

jb** is offline  
Old
02-07-2010, 06:15 PM
  #79
JVR21
G
 
JVR21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 7,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
and it was reported that they wouldn't trade either for Kovalchuk, so if offense is their first need it would seem that at this point they're pretty untouchable

Flyers need to work out the kinks, they don't need an addition of some big offensive player. They have plenty of guys who can produce who aren't producing. They need to do what it takes to try and get them going, adding one big offensive guy won't turn that around.
The Flyers weren't willing to give up assets for one playoff run with Kovy. I hope we don't end up signing him this off season either because he is not worth 1/5 of our cap space.

JVR21 is online now  
Old
02-07-2010, 06:16 PM
  #80
Machinae
Registered User
 
Machinae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Mississauga, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,514
vCash: 500
Wow this deal is awful. Leafs give up one of the best puck movers in the league for garbage.

Machinae is offline  
Old
02-07-2010, 06:16 PM
  #81
Cappo40*
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,764
vCash: 500
Giroux's not going anywhere for Philly...Hartnell can be had (according to some places)...Coburn I don't follow, so I don't know how he is playing..

Cappo40* is offline  
Old
02-07-2010, 06:48 PM
  #82
RJ8812
Hellooooo ladiiiies
 
RJ8812's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sudbury
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Wow this deal is awful. Leafs give up one of the best puck movers in the league for garbage.
HAHAHAHAH

Giroux...garbage, lol

RJ8812 is online now  
Old
02-07-2010, 06:49 PM
  #83
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Wow this deal is awful. Leafs give up one of the best puck movers in the league for garbage.
We will keep Giroux then

You keep that top puckmover in the league

sa cyred is online now  
Old
02-07-2010, 06:52 PM
  #84
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,577
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
We will keep Giroux then

You keep that top puckmover in the league
You sir are 100% correct

Hockeypete49 is offline  
Old
02-07-2010, 10:05 PM
  #85
NitHeel
Mucker/Grinder
 
NitHeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Reading, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Carle and coburn are playing top 4 roles by default. Carle is not a top 4 guy imo and corbun isnt either right now. Kaberle is head and shulders better than both of them. If the flyers were a kaberle away from what they thought was winning the cup, then yes giroux or jv would be included in a deal that was proposed for kaberle and poni. However they are not a player away and i hope shooter doesnt think they are. You have to give to get and people fail to realize that. Right now i dont do the deal but it isnt a bad value wise.
The point is not that all 4 are better then Kaberle (they're not), it's that the 1 thing this team DOES NOT NEED is a top-4 DMan. If one were to fall from the sky, that would be terrific. But it's certainly not worth the assets it would cost to get one when there are far more important holes to fill.

No one fails to realize you have to give to get. You fail to realize that the cost in getting Kaberle makes it a net-negative when you consider what Toronto would be right to expect to get in a trade for him.

NitHeel is offline  
Old
02-07-2010, 10:20 PM
  #86
Guest123
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lancaster,PA
Country: United States
Posts: 775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps View Post
Philly balked? or Atlanta balked and wanted ready NHL players and not prospects and picks...

i'd trade Giroux or JVR plus 1st and another prospect in a heartbeat for Kovy
Have you seen our salary cap situation recently? Philly balked because we are not giving up Giroux or JVR for a rental. Plain and simple.

Facepalm yourself.

Guest123 is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 12:40 AM
  #87
o Hamhuis 2 x
Registered User
 
o Hamhuis 2 x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading PA
Country: United States
Posts: 903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
This is based on IF Kaberle waives his NTC. (I know, a big IF)


To Philadelphia:
A. Ponikarovsky
T. Kaberle

To Toronto:
S.Hartnell (somewhat of a salary dump)
C.Giroux
B.Coburn/1st in 2010


Thoughts? Suggestions?
This trade is terrible for my flyers

o Hamhuis 2 x is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 12:41 AM
  #88
o Hamhuis 2 x
Registered User
 
o Hamhuis 2 x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading PA
Country: United States
Posts: 903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
The point is not that all 4 are better then Kaberle (they're not), it's that the 1 thing this team DOES NOT NEED is a top-4 DMan. If one were to fall from the sky, that would be terrific. But it's certainly not worth the assets it would cost to get one when there are far more important holes to fill.

No one fails to realize you have to give to get. You fail to realize that the cost in getting Kaberle makes it a net-negative when you consider what Toronto would be right to expect to get in a trade for him.
Carle is amazing

o Hamhuis 2 x is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 12:43 AM
  #89
dbr2
Lockout Beard
 
dbr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,340
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to dbr2
yeah, no

dbr2 is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 12:43 AM
  #90
o Hamhuis 2 x
Registered User
 
o Hamhuis 2 x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading PA
Country: United States
Posts: 903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Flyers need to add scoring not shop it out or break even at best. They need to add a PF like Poni but not at the expense of the only other PF they have in Hartnell.

Flyers don't have the cap space or draft picks to add Poni without a player being sent back.
Maybe...
Poni + Stempniak
Gagne + Asham
Good work I like that trade

o Hamhuis 2 x is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 12:45 AM
  #91
o Hamhuis 2 x
Registered User
 
o Hamhuis 2 x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading PA
Country: United States
Posts: 903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
yeah, no
he made like 3 mistakes that led to goals this season and hes still young

o Hamhuis 2 x is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 02:21 AM
  #92
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 12,582
vCash: 500
Ouch. Talk about getting shafted.

__________________
"Help was not promised, lovely girl. Only death."
JDinkalage Morgoone is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 03:32 AM
  #93
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,234
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Carle and coburn are playing top 4 roles by default. Carle is not a top 4 guy imo and corbun isnt either right now.


Kaberle is head and shulders better than both of them.
Carle and Coburn are both legit 3-4 defensemen, right now. Both have some upside to them yet as well. How good do you want your second pairing defense men to be honestly? I feel like lots of Flyers fans that don't really know hockey watch Timonen and Pronger and notice the sizable gap between their two best defensemen and the rest of the corp, and just figure the rest of the guys are trash because they have identifiable flaws. Carle and Coburn aren't bad second pairing guys at all, Timonen and Pronger as just really, really good first pairing guys.

Kaberle's skill with the puck is not debatable, and he also skates well. But I don't think he is any better than those two once the opponent has the zone, and those guys aren't exactly awful transition defenders.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 06:03 AM
  #94
captainpaxil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
By far the dumbest post i've ever read. Giroux is a first line centre, but Kaberle who has the second most points among defenseman on a team that isn't exactly a great scoring cast is just ridiculous.

Hartnell +/- is Poni, the only difference is Hartnell is making $4.2 million while Poni is obviously making less and comes of the books, you'll need money at some point to sign the JVR, Giroux, Emery, Coburn's of the world.

It was also 1st/Coburn, while that might be a bit extreme I think a second is about fair.
okay you didnt see what i did there. in toronto giroux immediately becomes the number 1 setup guy for kessell in phily kaberle is the 3rd best d-man. hed be the fourth best defensively and him and kimo are playing similar minutes. kimo has a talent for covering other guys defensive liabilities which kabere has continually shown himself to have.


hartnell as a straight dump is poni and coming off the books doesnt do any good when your trying to add depth. the flyers come out of this deal with one year of a player we neither want nor need.

captainpaxil is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 07:31 AM
  #95
RhyZa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,573
vCash: 500
I can see Philly fans getting bent out of shape over Giroux, but Hartnell or Coburn have limited value.

RhyZa is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 07:35 AM
  #96
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhyZa View Post
I can see Philly fans getting bent out of shape over Giroux, but Hartnell or Coburn have limited value.
It doesn't matter.

The Flyers still give up all these assets for basically nothing.

CS is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 09:18 AM
  #97
RhyZa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
It doesn't matter.

The Flyers still give up all these assets for basically nothing.
By all I take it you mean Giroux.

If Kaberle is nothing, I don't know what Hartnell and Coburn are.

RhyZa is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 09:21 AM
  #98
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhyZa View Post
By all I take it you mean Giroux.

If Kaberle is nothing, I don't know what Hartnell and Coburn are.
Hartnell and Coburn are locked up longer than a year. Granted, Coburn is an RFA, but my point remains true.

Kaberle is a bargain for a 1/4 season + playoffs this year and one more year before he turns into nothing at a position we don't need. Poni is a good forward who is arguably an upgrade to Hartnell but is off to the market this offseason.

Once again, the Flyers give up all these assets for nothing.

CS is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 09:25 AM
  #99
RhyZa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Hartnell and Coburn are locked up longer than a year. Granted, Coburn is an RFA, but my point remains true.

Kaberle is a bargain for a 1/4 season + playoffs this year and one more year before he turns into nothing at a position we don't need. Poni is a good forward who is arguably an upgrade to Hartnell but is off to the market this offseason.

Once again, the Flyers give up all these assets for nothing.
I guess I'll agree to disagree that lesser players, one borderline overpaid, the other who struggled immensely for a good part of the season are worth more than 2 better players because they're locked up to longer terms. If Coburn and Hartnell fit the needs for the Flyers better I guess that would make sense, but removing Giroux from the deal makes it a laughable deal for the Leafs.

RhyZa is offline  
Old
02-08-2010, 09:30 AM
  #100
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhyZa View Post
I guess I'll agree to disagree that lesser players, one borderline overpaid, the other who struggled immensely for a good part of the season are worth more than 2 better players because they're locked up to longer terms. If Coburn and Hartnell fit the needs for the Flyers better I guess that would make sense, but removing Giroux from the deal makes it a laughable deal for the Leafs.
Not really. You're likely about to lose Poni I assume, and Kaberle isn't going to be there forever.

Let me put it this way. The Flyers wouldn't move Giroux for a rental like Kovalchuk. Why would they move him for a rental and a borderline rental that don't come anywhere close to filling the need that Kovalchuk would have?

Hartnell + Coburn for Kaberle + Poni benefits the Flyers short-term and hurts the Flyers long-term.
Hartnell + Coburn + Giroux for Kaberle + Poni hurts the Flyers short-term and hurts the Flyers long-term.

No playoff team trades youth just to downgrade for a postseason run. It's the epitome of dumb move. Maybe a GM trying to destroy a team before leaving would make such a stupid trade, but that deal is beyond laughably in favor of the Leafs. It might actually be the most insane deal in the history of the NHL.


Last edited by CS: 02-08-2010 at 09:35 AM.
CS is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.