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Ovechkin vs Gretzky and Lemieux

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Old
10-28-2010, 09:51 PM
  #51
RottenScoundrel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmundus View Post
Ovechkin=Lemieux.
Ovechkin couldn't carry Lemieux's

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Old
10-28-2010, 11:01 PM
  #52
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Odd, but I do not remember creating this thread... and it says I am the author. Weird.


Anyways,

If you guys are telling me that you cannot even compare Stamkos to Crosby and Ovechkin based on what they have done in their career, then how in the heck could you even possibly suggest comparing the best two players ever in the game to some russian star who has not won anything as far as team achievements (NHL and international), not personaly trophies.

Ovechkin could not even carry Mario or Wayne's jock strap.

But Stamkos could carry more than Ovechkins! lol





Brutal comparisons!

Speaking of,


I think that Karlis Skrastins is the second coming of Bobby Orr.

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Old
10-29-2010, 12:45 AM
  #53
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Were you high or something...

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Old
10-29-2010, 01:02 AM
  #54
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Gretzky and Lemieux are legends for a reason.

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Old
10-29-2010, 01:17 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edruga View Post
Were you high or something...
hahaha!! lol

Perhaps! hahaha


but for real though,

I made a thread titled Stamkos vs. Crosby vs. Ovechkin


Not the title of this baby, lol.

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Old
10-29-2010, 01:20 AM
  #56
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Ovechkin sure would look snazzy in a Sabres uniform.

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Old
10-29-2010, 01:34 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Ovy was a Sharks' fan growing up, so why not.

I would love to have someone with that much fire and drive to win on the Sharks, but with Thornton preferably, not without.
I'd do Marleau and Heatley for Ovechkin in a heartbeat, especially considering that's 4.9million in salary going to Washington. Ovechkin - Thornton - Pylon would be the best line in the NHL by far. Best playmaker and best goalscorer in the world together

In fact I'd do our whole team minus Thornton for Ovechkin, even though we wouldn't win the cup, it'd be worth it just to see them on a line together for one season.

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10-29-2010, 01:36 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Odd, but I do not remember creating this thread... and it says I am the author. Weird.


Anyways,

If you guys are telling me that you cannot even compare Stamkos to Crosby and Ovechkin based on what they have done in their career, then how in the heck could you even possibly suggest comparing the best two players ever in the game to some russian star who has not won anything as far as team achievements (NHL and international), not personaly trophies.

Ovechkin could not even carry Mario or Wayne's jock strap.

But Stamkos could carry more than Ovechkins! lol





Brutal comparisons!

Speaking of,


I think that Karlis Skrastins is the second coming of Bobby Orr.
World Juniors and World Championship. You can laugh off the WJs but you did say "anything" and the WC means a lot to Europeans, so he's 1/3.

Besides, Gretzky took 4 or 5 years before he won anything and Lemieux took 7 or so. Give it time.

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10-29-2010, 02:16 AM
  #59
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The biggest difference in Mario and Gretz compared with Ovy is actually vision. Ovy objectively has a better shot than Gretz or Mario and might be faster too, so physically he's more capable but he loses in almost all other departments. Mario made slicker moves, Gretzky made better passes, both saw the game far better as well. If you gave Ovechkin the vision of either of the two, he'd be perhaps the best offensive player ever.

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Old
10-29-2010, 02:41 AM
  #60
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Why do people keep bumping this old threads is beyond me,

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Old
10-29-2010, 02:57 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Evil Oilers View Post
I'm an Oilers fan and I'd have to say Mario was better than gretz. If you look at the team make up during the 80's, the Oilers had a very built team. When you got Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Fuhr and Coffey to play with, of course your numbers are gonna be inflated by a LOT. Heck, if Lemieux played for the Oilers and Gretzky for the Penguins, Mario would be close to the 250 mark at LEAST 4-5 different times. Gretzky after the Oilers hit the 100 mark like 2-3 times then just sizzled out.
If Mario was healthy he could have Challenged Grez but same as Bure...Wayne was magic, different type of player then anyone before him (or since). Gretzky fizzled a bit but that was injury and marriage (used a lot of energy their--Janet).

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Old
10-29-2010, 08:34 AM
  #62
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Unsaid is that Gretz and Lemieux had teams built around them. This can no longer be done under the cap system.

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10-29-2010, 08:48 AM
  #63
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While I don't think Ovechkin can hold a candle to Gretzky or Lemieux, I feel like you can't really compare them. 66 and 99 were just on another god-like level, but they also were centers, and when they got older, they still had the vision and hockey sense to produce despite what their bodies were telling them.

Ovechkin, however, he's a freak. Mario and Wayne were freaks in their own right, but Ovie is just this crazy winger with a ton of energy, who can get a shot on net from anywhere, snipe with the best of them, and hit like a freight train. I really feel that he is something special on a whole new level.

Maybe 10 years down the line his age catches up with him, but I think he's this special, unique player that we may never see again. I'm a huge Pens fan, and I dislike Ovechkin at times, but you can't deny that he is amazing to watch. Sure, you can't rank him with the best ever, but there's just this aura about him that is different from any player I've ever seen. We should just appreciate him for what he is, really, because you just can't compare him.

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Old
10-29-2010, 08:50 AM
  #64
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Crosby is the best player in the world. Crosby has no one to play with (except Malkin once in a while), Ovechkin has Backstrom, Green and Semin to feed him the puck. We all saw what kind of heart Ovie had at the olympics. Russians are great in the regular season but once they hit the playoffs the North American grit takes over.

If you look at the rules, equipment, size of the players, training regimes and diet of this generation of hockey players you really can't compare players from different generations.
Guy Lafleur was a chain smoker. Howe used to go to training camp to get in shape. The biggest difference I think is the style of goal tending. It has become a science these days with massive equipment. Look at some of Gretzky's goals from the early 80's. The goalies were all standing up and they took a kick at the puck as it went by.

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Old
10-29-2010, 08:54 AM
  #65
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There is not way Ovechkin ever puts up 160-200 point seasons like the Great Mario and Wayne did.

He is just simply nowhere near as talented as those two. This is a pointless thread.

Its like comparing apples to oranges.

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Old
10-29-2010, 09:11 AM
  #66
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ovechkin shouldent even be mentioned in the same sentence as lemuix or gretzky.

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Old
10-29-2010, 09:13 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Just looking at some stats. When I look at guys stats like Gretzky and Lemieux and then I look at Ovechkin's I just see a big drop off.

I understand that Ovie is the most talented player in the game today and he is the NHL's MVP.

I just wonder why everyone on this board always talks about how untradable Ovechkin is. I mean if Wayne Gretzky could be traded, then why not Ovechkin???


I know that he would fetch alot in return, but it is not impossible. Some people say whoever acquires Ovie in a trade gets the better end of the deal no matter what.


So you mean if NJ traded Kovalchuk, Parise and 2 1st round picks Washington wouldnt get the better end of that??

Or how about Hedman, Stamkos, Lecavalier and a 1st rounder for Ovechkin??


Or how about Heatley, Thornton straight up for Ovie??



Do you think the NHL's best player right now will ever reach the numbers that Wayne and Mario did???
Most stars don't get traded. No generational talent should be traded. And arguably the greatest hockey player of all time should not have been traded.

Bobby Orr wasn't traded. Mario wasn't traded. And not that these guys are comparable but Ovie and Sid won't get traded.

Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHnZFEWzAkE (part 1/4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCh_L...eature=related (part 2/4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnMR1...eature=related (part 3/4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGqtS...eature=related (part 4/4)

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Old
10-29-2010, 09:18 AM
  #68
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1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux


Ovy's a great player but he does not belong anywhere close to these two legends. Crosby is better then Ovy and he does not even belong in the same sentence as Gretzky and Lemieux.

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Old
10-29-2010, 09:27 AM
  #69
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People always say: "If Gretzky got traded, nobody is untouchable."

Simply not true.. Gretzky got traded in an entirely different era and for financial reasons. In the salary cap world of today, you don't trade away the best player in the game. You have cap restrictions and league maximums for a reason, the players realize this and sign contracts accordingly.

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Old
10-29-2010, 09:41 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Committed Fanatic View Post
Most stars don't get traded. No generational talent should be traded. And arguably the greatest hockey player of all time should not have been traded.

Bobby Orr wasn't traded. Mario wasn't traded. And not that these guys are comparable but Ovie and Sid won't get traded.

Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHnZFEWzAkE (part 1/4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCh_L...eature=related (part 2/4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnMR1...eature=related (part 3/4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGqtS...eature=related (part 4/4)

Wow! That is an extremely old post of mine! This is the weirdest thread ever!! A post of mine from months ago here, the title was switched and now people are actually trying to comapre some russian with a few great seasons to the games best players ever!?!?!


Also,
You said stars are rarely traded like Mario and Orr?


Well how about Messier, Bure, Forsberg, Roy, Gretzky, Hull, Shanahan, Blake, Pronger, Coffey, Howe, Bourque, Lindros, Jagr, Hasek, Sawchuk, Francis, Gilmour, Sundin, Thornton, Heatley, Kariya, I am not gonna sit here and name everyone or I would be here for hours.


If you look back though, more star players have been traded over their careers then not traded.

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Old
10-29-2010, 09:52 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
Personally I think Lemieux was the greatest player of all time, at least the most talented.
No Lemeiux was the most talented, not the greatest player. Orr was the greatest player, he could do it all, how many other d-men have won the scoring title?
Gretsky is a close second, not as naturally talented as Mario, but a far better attitude and a better vision of the game. The three of them reign supreme. No other players even come close to their abilities. It is very doubtful Gretsky's point totals will ever be surpassed, unless the game changes radically. Mario came close, but had health problems.

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10-29-2010, 09:57 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Wow! That is an extremely old post of mine! This is the weirdest thread ever!! A post of mine from months ago here, the title was switched and now people are actually trying to comapre some russian with a few great seasons to the games best players ever!?!?!


Also,
You said stars are rarely traded like Mario and Orr?


Well how about Messier, Bure, Forsberg, Roy, Gretzky, Hull, Shanahan, Blake, Pronger, Coffey, Howe, Bourque, Lindros, Jagr, Hasek, Sawchuk, Francis, Gilmour, Sundin, Thornton, Heatley, Kariya, I am not gonna sit here and name everyone or I would be here for hours.


If you look back though, more star players have been traded over their careers then not traded.
You're right. I guess what I was trying to say is that the bigger the star, the less likely he's going to get traded. Most of the guys you listed have probably played 90% of their career with one or two teams.

Oh and just cause I can't let this go... Blake isn't a star!

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Old
10-29-2010, 10:42 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Oilers View Post
I'm an Oilers fan and I'd have to say Mario was better than gretz. If you look at the team make up during the 80's, the Oilers had a very built team. When you got Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Fuhr and Coffey to play with, of course your numbers are gonna be inflated by a LOT. Heck, if Lemieux played for the Oilers and Gretzky for the Penguins, Mario would be close to the 250 mark at LEAST 4-5 different times. Gretzky after the Oilers hit the 100 mark like 2-3 times then just sizzled out.
Sizzled out? They guy was putting up 90+ point seasons in the heart of the dead-puck era on lousy teams at age 37. During his time with the Kings, he made many players look like superstars, and had a pair of 2+PPG seasons, and five of over 120pts (with injury troubles being the only things that stopped him from doing it at least two more times).

1988-89 Los Angeles Kings NHL 78 54 114 168
1989-90 Los Angeles Kings NHL 73 40 102 142
1990-91 Los Angeles Kings NHL 78 41 122 163
1991-92 Los Angeles Kings NHL 74 31 90 121
1992-93 Los Angeles Kings NHL 45 16 49 65
1993-94 Los Angeles Kings NHL 81 38 92 130
1994-95 Los Angeles Kings NHL 48 11 37 48
1995-96 Los Angeles Kings NHL 62 15 66 81
1995-96 St. Louis Blues NHL 18 8 13 21
1996-97 New York Rangers NHL 82 25 72 97
1997-98 New York Rangers NHL 82 23 67 90
1998-99 New York Rangers NHL 70 9 53 62

Here's the list of top scorers in his final full season (when he was 37). He finished tied for third with Pavel Bure, one point back of Peter Forsberg and only 12 back of Jagr, when all of these players were in their absolute prime. Show the man some respect - a prime Forsberg, in one of his healthier seasons, playing on a stacked team alongside perennial all-stars, put up two more goals and 1 more point that year than a 37 year old, beat up Wayne Gretzky playing for a non-playoff contender.

Player Team GP G A PTS
Jaromir Jagr Pittsburgh 77 35 67 102
Peter Forsberg Colorado 72 25 66 91
Pavel Bure Vancouver 82 51 39 90
Wayne Gretzky NY Rangers 82 23 67 90
John LeClair Philadelphia 82 51 36 87
Zigmund Palffy NY Islanders 82 45 42 87
Ron Francis Pittsburgh 81 25 62 87
Teemu Selanne Anaheim 73 52 34 86
Jason Allison Boston 81 33 50 83
Jozef Stumpel Los Angeles 77 21 58 79


Last edited by RewBicks: 10-29-2010 at 10:52 AM.
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Old
10-29-2010, 06:09 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Evil Oilers View Post
Put him on Edmonton in the 80's and he'd have got 250+ points IMO.
you guys are acting like he played with talbot or the current scrubs crosby does. as far as i knew playing on a line with jagr counts as playing with good players

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Old
10-29-2010, 07:48 PM
  #75
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I would put it as

1. Bobby Orr
2. Mario Lemieux
3. Wayne Gretzky
4. Maurice "the Rocket" Richard
5. Gordie Howe

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