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Old
02-10-2010, 09:58 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
But we didn't. That's the problem. Now people are advocating that we should trade Dubi and Cally because they think Horton or Weiss are better. And next year, when we have a bunch of ill-fitting parts, everyone will complain that there is too much turnover and we need to keep the "core" so they can grow together.

Trading Dubi or Cally isn't going to make us a better team. Why would we trade from an area of weakness to try to improve that same area of weakness? Makes no sense.
That's actually a big problem. But you know the situation surrounding those two trades. Weight went for Tikkanen I think - and who knows whether we win in '94 without that move.

The Savard move was a move for both youth and age (a draft pick, Lundmark, and Hlavac). Odd in that it was a desperate move by Smith to capture lighting in a bottle again with the Czechmates line. It was sold to fans by saying that Savard was bad in the locker room.

IF a deal for Horton or Weiss goes down, it would supposedly be a lateral move age-wise and not similar to the others mentioned. We would not have these other peripheral concerns driving the trade.

Horton, for example, and Dubinsky are comparable in age but Dubinsky is a career underachiever in comparison to him. I make that deal, as we don't get significantly older and I really don't see the value of Duber to the organization, long term. I like the guy but , even playing with Jagr and Gaborik, he's never put up any notable amount of points.

Dubes is looking more and more like a poor man's Chris Gratton every day. At least Gratton was tough and had a couple of 60 point seasons.

Now, Callahan, on the other hand, I wouldn't move for Horton or Weiss. He's getting better and really has taken on a strong leadership role in the club. You can see he's got a future here.

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02-10-2010, 10:08 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
That's actually a big problem. But you know the situation surrounding those two trades. Weight went for Tikkanen I think - and who knows whether we win in '94 without that move.

The Savard move was a move for both youth and age (a draft pick, Lundmark, and Hlavac). Odd in that it was a desperate move by Smith to capture lighting in a bottle again with the Czechmates line. It was sold to fans by saying that Savard was bad in the locker room.

IF a deal for Horton or Weiss goes down, it would supposedly be a lateral move age-wise and not similar to the others mentioned. We would not have these other peripheral concerns driving the trade.

Horton, for example, and Dubinsky are comparable in age but Dubinsky is a career underachiever in comparison to him. I make that deal, as we don't get significantly older and I really don't see the value of Duber to the organization, long term. I like the guy but , even playing with Jagr and Gaborik, he's never put up any notable amount of points.

Dubes is looking more and more like a poor man's Chris Gratton every day. At least Gratton was tough and had a couple of 60 point seasons.

Now, Callahan, on the other hand, I wouldn't move for Horton or Weiss. He's getting better and really has taken on a strong leadership role in the club. You can see he's got a future here.
I'm not sure I buy your logic. Dubinsky, a late 2nd round pick is a career underachiever, compared to the 3rd pick in the 2003 draft? Horton is the more talented player, but, given where Dubinsky was drafted, and what's he's become, he's now a career underachiever?

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02-10-2010, 10:22 AM
  #178
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I'm not sure I buy your logic. Dubinsky, a late 2nd round pick is a career underachiever, compared to the 3rd pick in the 2003 draft? Horton is the more talented player, but, given where Dubinsky was drafted, and what's he's become, he's now a career underachiever?
If Lundqvist loses every game for the rest of his career, is he a career underachiever? Or is he still a career overachiever because he was a 7th round pick?

We all know what Dubinsky is capable of. We've seen flashes of it. He hasn't put it all together yet and I personally don't think he'll ever be able to break the 60 point mark in his career without a hall-of-fame talent on his wing. There is no reason for him to be invisible on a nightly basis.

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02-10-2010, 10:33 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
If Lundqvist loses every game for the rest of his career, is he a career underachiever? Or is he still a career overachiever because he was a 7th round pick?

We all know what Dubinsky is capable of. We've seen flashes of it. He hasn't put it all together yet and I personally don't think he'll ever be able to break the 60 point mark in his career without a hall-of-fame talent on his wing. There is no reason for him to be invisible on a nightly basis.
What is wrong with a 50-60 point player for 1.4 mil as opposed to Horton, who, while I like his game, certainly isnt a superstar caliber player, for 4+ mil.

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02-10-2010, 10:37 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
What is wrong with a 50-60 point player for 1.4 mil as opposed to Horton, who, while I like his game, certainly isnt a superstar caliber player, for 4+ mil.
Nothing, besides the fact that he's our best center on the team. I'm not saying Dubinsky is a waste of a draft pick. I love having him on the team. But this team needs a true first line center, so that our first line AND second line can perform better.

And Dubinsky hasn't come close to 50 points yet, and he's due for a raise next off-season.

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02-10-2010, 10:39 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by ZacUSNYR View Post
I like Corey, every time i've watched the Wolfpack he was one of the better defensive defensemen on the ice.
ever time I've seen the Wolfpack play over the last few years....Potter was one of the worst defensemen period on the ice.

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02-10-2010, 10:39 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Nothing, besides the fact that he's our best center on the team. I'm not saying Dubinsky is a waste of a draft pick. I love having him on the team. But this team needs a true first line center, so that our first line AND second line can perform better.
I think a team can function with supporting centers. I really do. As long as the wingers are good enough to compensate. You put Gaborik with Dubinsky and Kovalchuk with Anisimov and I think they are good enough to play 1st and 2nd line center duties. Just look at how much more effective Christensen has been.

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02-10-2010, 10:41 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I think a team can function with supporting centers. I really do. As long as the wingers are good enough to compensate. You put Gaborik with Dubinsky and Kovalchuk with Anisimov and I think they are good enough to play 1st and 2nd line center duties. Just look at how much more effective Christensen has been.
But why spend $9 million to make Dubinsky and Anisimov functional when you can spend $5 million for a legit first line center, have Dubinsky and Anisimov in roles they can more than handle, and still have another $4 million for a guy like Horton or Volchenkov?

We've gone the big contract superstar route and all we've seen is that we suffer from a severe lack of depth.

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02-10-2010, 10:42 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I think a team can function with supporting centers. I really do. As long as the wingers are good enough to compensate. You put Gaborik with Dubinsky and Kovalchuk with Anisimov and I think they are good enough to play 1st and 2nd line center duties. Just look at how much more effective Christensen has been.
It's interesting, and I lean towards agreeing with that.

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02-10-2010, 10:44 AM
  #185
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Exactamundo!...He ripped Lecavalier daily a new a-hole and made Lecavalier what he is today...
AN overpaid 2nd tier superstar?


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02-10-2010, 10:45 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
But why spend $9 million to make Dubinsky and Anisimov functional when you can spend $5 million for a legit first line center, have Dubinsky and Anisimov in roles they can more than handle, and still have another $4 million for a guy like Horton or Volchenkov?
I dont have a problem with that, I just thought we were thinking Dubinsky would be in the deal for Horton, which I wasnt a huge fan of. If we can get Horton for a salary dump and some picks/prospects I wouldnt have an issue with that strategy. I just dont want to dump Dubinsky when he's finally getting off of the 40 point barrier

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02-10-2010, 10:48 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I dont have a problem with that, I just thought we were thinking Dubinsky would be in the deal for Horton, which I wasnt a huge fan of. If we can get Horton for a salary dump and some picks/prospects I wouldnt have an issue with that strategy. I just dont want to dump Dubinsky when he's finally getting off of the 40 point barrier
I will be the first to point out that Dubinsky is not a first line center. But I will also be the first to point out that he is a great second line center to have going forward. I don't want him involved in any deals for offensive players. Trade defense and defensive prospects, because we're going to have a logjam in a couple of years on the blue line.

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02-10-2010, 10:59 AM
  #188
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Dubi is a young player with consistency issues. This year he's had a 14 game goalless streak in the early part of his season (3 assists in that period),a 7 game goalless streak just recently (1 assist), and at the beginning of the season he had a 5 game goalless streak (2 assists). Take into consideration he missed 13 games...but it is a little bit of an improvement from last season.

Last year he had a 13 game goalless streak (4 assists), a 19 game goalless streak (6 assists),and a 23 game goalless streak (10 assists).

He's has put together two solid play-off appearances.

I personally feel he's eventually going to put it all together.

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02-10-2010, 11:03 AM
  #189
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Chris Drury? Is that you?

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02-10-2010, 11:13 AM
  #190
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GUYS! BREAKING NEWS FROM EKLUND!

According to my sources within the New York Rangers organization, the Carolina Hurricanes are willing to part with C Eric Staal, D Joni Pitkanen, a bucket of fried chicken to obtain the services of D Wade Redden. Remember, you heard it here first!


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02-10-2010, 11:18 AM
  #191
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id say Horton is the career underachiever here...with that said, hes still better than Dubi.

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02-10-2010, 11:25 AM
  #192
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I just don't think Sather is going to break up the young core in place to get a Horton or Weiss. Lateral moves. May or may not work. I think he would prefer to add to the core with same age players. That points to draft picks and non NHL roster players heading to Florida. Which begs the question -- would you include Grachev or Stepan in a trade? Kreider (who I think is our best forward prospect) just seems to have too high a ceiling for me to even think about moving him.

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02-10-2010, 11:33 AM
  #193
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Could Colorado not be fore a Liles( who has been benched) and Svatos for say Rozy and Lisin?

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02-10-2010, 12:17 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I just don't think Sather is going to break up the young core in place to get a Horton or Weiss. Lateral moves. May or may not work. I think he would prefer to add to the core with same age players. That points to draft picks and non NHL roster players heading to Florida. Which begs the question -- would you include Grachev or Stepan in a trade? Kreider (who I think is our best forward prospect) just seems to have too high a ceiling for me to even think about moving him.
I wouldn't, I think those prospects have higher upsides than Dubinksy and Callahan.
Right now I don't see Callahan and Dubinsky getting much better then what they're currently are. Especially Callahan. I think he pretty much is what he's going to be.

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02-10-2010, 12:17 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Could Colorado not be fore a Liles( who has been benched) and Svatos for say Rozy and Lisin?
I have a gut feeling that MSG would eat Svatos alive if he were ever to land on the Rangers. With that said, I don't care for him to be on this squad. I wouldn't do that trade for the sole reason of trading Rozsival away. Rosie does more for this team than Marek Svatos would ever do.

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02-10-2010, 12:19 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I just don't think Sather is going to break up the young core in place to get a Horton or Weiss. Lateral moves. May or may not work. I think he would prefer to add to the core with same age players. That points to draft picks and non NHL roster players heading to Florida. Which begs the question -- would you include Grachev or Stepan in a trade? Kreider (who I think is our best forward prospect) just seems to have too high a ceiling for me to even think about moving him.
To me, it all depends on what Ranger brass thinks Dubinsky is going forward. I think both Kreider and Stepan raised their stock at the WJCs. So, depending on whether they see Dubinsky as a C or LW, it seems to me that the Rangers might consider moving either Grachev or Anisimov. Based upon an interview with Gordie Clark shortly after the WJCs, they consider Dubinsky a potential 1st liner, while they've seemed to see Anisimov as a 3rd liner. If they are pleased with Kreider's progress, and see Dubinsky as a top six LW, it wouldn't surprise me to see them offer Grachev in a deal to add a young player who'd fit at 2nd line RW, (allowing Callahan to slide in as the high quality 3rd line RW), and know they'd have the chance to add Grachev's replacement in the upcoming draft.

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02-10-2010, 12:24 PM
  #197
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IMO, Dubinsky will not be kept at center. He will be a 2nd line 50-60 point LWer. Torts wants to transform him into a power-forward which this organization needs. Trading him or Callahan would be a mistake.

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02-10-2010, 12:27 PM
  #198
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I see the Rangers targeting Booth more then Horton. What the Rangers would give up for him, I have no idea.

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02-10-2010, 12:33 PM
  #199
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I like Dubinsky much more on the wing. Seems it allows him to focus more on the basics, which he excels at.

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02-10-2010, 12:34 PM
  #200
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I like Dubinsky much more on the wing. Seems it allows him to focus more on the basics, which he excels at.
Yeah, it also allows him to work the boards more which is one of his strengths. Torts should work on him going to the front of the net more because if he does that, he will get 10+ more points/season by just hanging around the goal more.

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