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Old
02-11-2010, 08:37 PM
  #51
the tikk
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Originally Posted by HOF99 View Post
I'M WAITING FOR SOMEBODY TO SHOW ME ANOTHER GUY WHO WILL LIVE HERE, SUPPORT THE TEAM, ALREADY BUILT A 20+ MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE, AND WANT TO LIVE HERE....

waiting......
No one is answering this because, though the peripheral discussion is crucial, your premise is silly and flawed.

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02-11-2010, 08:38 PM
  #52
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You admit outright that the root problem is not solved at all and it is just moved elsewhere. Let someone else/another part of Edmonton (perhaps your neighborhood) deal with the problems. Talk about being shortsighted...

fwiw, I am in no way against building a downtown arena with tax payer help but some of the arguments for the arena are insane.
No. Go back and read what I wrote. I said it will not be tolerated by a family oriented downtown community and, yes it will force that stuff out of the downtown, but it will also generate more tax dollars to support the downtown outreach programs that will be neighbors with the new businesses.

As for another neighborhood dealing with it, that's another issue, but certainly the increase in tax revenue will translate into more police officers and programs as well as corporate programs as I cited after my OP. I don't see how anyone who is reasonable could argue that more thriving businesses, which happen to be in an arena district, will harm the poor downtrodden citizens of Edmonton.

So let's say Katz isn't doing this and there is no downtown revitalization and no new revenues or jobs created for years in construction, management and just jobs of all kinds for the businesses down there, what's you solution?

Are you proud of the state of our downtown? It's not like there are not a dozen other nuclear bomb zones in Edmonton that these people will go to. Have you driven down Stony Plain road or in the Boyle/McCauley areas? Maybe by eliminating one area that is crime ridden it makes it easier to police the other problem communities. Ever think of that? Likely not.

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02-11-2010, 08:38 PM
  #53
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No one is answering this because, though the peripheral discussion is crucial, your premise is silly and flawed.
Besides a philosophical approach, why is it flawed?

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02-11-2010, 08:39 PM
  #54
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Holy motherloving crap. Where on earth do you think they'll go instead? To rehab and then university? WAKE UP EDMONTON! These problems need to be solved, not relocated!
Wrong! The city of NY fixed its problems in downtown Manhattan by moving all the problems to one area(The Bronx). Relocating is the only way to make it work. In saying that I'm not opposed to opening more institutions to help the poor.

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02-11-2010, 08:45 PM
  #55
the tikk
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Besides a philosophical approach, why is it flawed?
Dude, you're basically arguing that Katz should be able to develop without process because he's the only one rich and willing enough to do it.

1. So what if he's rich?
2. Should wealth buy unlimited political power?
3. Would you HONESTLY support this if you weren't a hockey fan?
4. Democracy?
5. Hierarchy?
6. Priorities?

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02-11-2010, 08:45 PM
  #56
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Oh sure. If Katz builds this huge hockey mall, then there will be programs for the poor. Downtown will have high property values and no crackheads! Just like...Vancouver...?

The gullibility is absolutely astonishing.

Not to mention, the absolute uncaring inhumanity of some among you is deeply disturbing.

It's attitudes like yours that have kept E-town in the sh*tter and will keep it there. Wake up and take care of your neighbours.
Your daftness is disturbing. Not that it matters, but I worked in healthcare for many years. I treated these people every single day of that career. I care about them, but I'm also a realist.

I think you're full of idealism and short on real ideas and solutions. I truly want to know what you would propose to help these people other than throwing more tax dollars into programs to support them. I'm sure that you would find that there is not much support for that either, even though I'd support it, most people would see it as adding to the welfare state and would want their tax dollars going to something more concrete.

Seriously. What would you do to develop the downtown and generate more tax dollars that will be used to better the downtown communities and enhance the programs there without raising taxes? How would you generate new taxes to fund the programs you want? New businesses would help that no? How would you propose to come up with a longterm plan that elevated this city and improves the quality of life? By the way, low crime rates improve quality of life in most studies.

Really. I want to know.

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02-11-2010, 08:47 PM
  #57
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Really? Or instead of "entire city", did you actually mean to type "people who frequent Oiler games"?
Or the enormous amount of jobs it will create........

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02-11-2010, 08:47 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by the tikk View Post
Dude, you're basically arguing that Katz should be able to develop without process because he's the only one rich and willing enough to do it.

1. So what if he's rich?
2. Should wealth buy unlimited political power?
3. Would you HONESTLY support this if you weren't a hockey fan?
4. Democracy?
5. Hierarchy?
6. Priorities?
That is what I'm saying.

He's gone through the process. He purchased the land.

Let him, unless somebody else wants to.

I don't get where you made your list from.

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02-11-2010, 08:49 PM
  #59
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Ehy wouldn't I support this? It's more about hockey.

Concerts, etc

Why do you think CGY can't get concerts.

Their roof is screwed up engineering wise.

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02-11-2010, 08:52 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by the tikk View Post
Dude, you're basically arguing that Katz should be able to develop without process because he's the only one rich and willing enough to do it.

1. So what if he's rich?
2. Should wealth buy unlimited political power?
3. Would you HONESTLY support this if you weren't a hockey fan?
4. Democracy?
5. Hierarchy?
6. Priorities?
All I can say if Edmontonians don't want the Arena they should just put it between Whitemud DR. and Sherwood Park FWY on the Anthony Henday. Give the arena to Strathcona county, they should have the tax dollars with all the refineries and once the Edmontonians realize what it does for a community they'll be *****ing that council should have voted for the proposed arena.

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02-11-2010, 08:53 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by HOF99 View Post
That is what I'm saying.

He's gone through the process. He purchased the land.

Let him, unless somebody else wants to.

I don't get where you made your list from.
Who's stopping him from going forward with his development?

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02-11-2010, 08:53 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by HOF99 View Post
Ehy wouldn't I support this? It's more about hockey.

Concerts, etc

Why do you think CGY can't get concerts.

Their roof is screwed up engineering wise.
Yup.

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Old
02-11-2010, 08:55 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Section337 View Post
Who's stopping him from going forward with his development?
I don't know

Treehuggers?

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02-11-2010, 08:57 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by IvyEyezPK View Post
Yup.
I can' believe those3 idiots didn't figure it out.

That's why most concerts are here.

Their roof can't hold the load (I did a civil ENG degree as well as my other one)

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02-11-2010, 09:02 PM
  #65
the tikk
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
Your daftness is disturbing. Not that it matters, but I worked in healthcare for many years. I treated these people every single day of that career. I care about them, but I'm also a realist.

I think you're full of idealism and short on real ideas and solutions. I truly want to know what you would propose to help these people other than throwing more tax dollars into programs to support them. I'm sure that you would find that there is not much support for that either, even though I'd support it, most people would see it as adding to the welfare state and would want their tax dollars going to something more concrete.

Seriously. What would you do to develop the downtown and generate more tax dollars that will be used to better the downtown communities and enhance the programs there without raising taxes? How would you propose to come up with a longterm plan that elevated this city and improves the quality of life? By the way, low crime rates improve quality of life in most studies.

Really. I want to know.
It's great that you care so much about "these people". Your idea of kicking them out of their neighbourhoods by making housing there unaffordable marginalizes them almost as well as your word choice.

I am not so naive as to think there's a quick solution to problems like drug addiction, FAS, abuse and poverty. I certainly don't think that these problems can be eradicated.

But, having travelled and lived across Canada, I can tell you that E-town is one of the worst cases and does just about the least to address it.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/03/04/t...a-murder-rate/

Solutions are long-term, require neighbourhood and infrastructure (transit) planning, intervention, rehab and most importantly (I think) EDUCATION. These are generational fixes and - you know what else (cover your ears, you stingy, right wing princes of Alberta) they require allocated CITIZEN TAX DOLLARS.

If you're holding your breath for some magical re-allocation of profits made by billionaires (which they'll be far happier shovelling into off-shore hideaways and tax-loss schemes, thank you) then good luck to you, sir.

Re-vitalise. What do you even think that means? The people it benefits are already f*&king rich!

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02-11-2010, 09:04 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by HOF99 View Post
Never mind who can.

Who is stepping up?
Darrel Katz is! I feel so smart now, I answered the question! Since that question is now answered, let's move on to another question:

Why did the chicken cross the road?

Answer: To get to the other side where there was a visionary arena and multi complex where the chicken could watch an Oilers game, play community league hockey, have a corporate meeting, live next to the college that adjoins it, eat at the restaurant that doesn't serve chicken, attend the Dimmu Borgir concert, walk across the pedway to get to the Mall where he can buy stuff, say quack quack to the newly hired workers and employees, spend a couple of eggs at the Casino, and perhaps collect some of those chicken taxes to build a roost for all the homeless chickens.

The End


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02-11-2010, 09:15 PM
  #67
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Darrel Katz is!
Bingo!!

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02-11-2010, 09:18 PM
  #68
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I like an arena over city wide, Vancouver like, drug houses though.

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02-11-2010, 09:34 PM
  #69
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Bingo!!
I've edited my first response with something a little more "flashy"

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02-11-2010, 09:36 PM
  #70
Seedling
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Originally Posted by the tikk View Post
It's great that you care so much about "these people". Your idea of kicking them out of their neighbourhoods by making housing there unaffordable marginalizes them almost as well as your word choice.

I am not so naive as to think there's a quick solution to problems like drug addiction, FAS, abuse and poverty. I certainly don't think that these problems can be eradicated.

But, having travelled and lived across Canada, I can tell you that E-town is one of the worst cases and does just about the least to address it.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/03/04/t...a-murder-rate/

Solutions are long-term, require neighbourhood and infrastructure (transit) planning, intervention, rehab and most importantly (I think) EDUCATION. These are generational fixes and - you know what else (cover your ears, you stingy, right wing princes of Alberta) they require allocated CITIZEN TAX DOLLARS.

If you're holding your breath for some magical re-allocation of profits made by billionaires (which they'll be far happier shovelling into off-shore hideaways and tax-loss schemes, thank you) then good luck to you, sir.

Re-vitalise. What do you even think that means? The people it benefits are already f*&king rich!
You are correct on the bolded part and solution is to increase the tax revenue base. Marganalize....w/e. Do you want these issues in your neighborhood? I doubt it so get of your highhorse. That's where the tax dollars come from as well as corporate sponsorship for the programs that help these people, and oh yeah, JOBS.

Re-vitalize:regenerate: restore strength; "This food revitalized the patient"
give new life or vigor to

To give new life, energy, activity or success to something; To rouse from a state of inactivity or quiescence

revitalized - restored to new life and vigor; "a revitalized economy"; "a revitalized inner-city neighborhood"

Three standard definitions of revitalize. Funny, I didn't see anything about fleecing tax payers for rich people in there.

Obvioulsy you are permanently entrenched in your nice view of the world and how it should work. I prefer reality.


Last edited by Seedling: 02-11-2010 at 09:44 PM.
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02-11-2010, 09:39 PM
  #71
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I just don't get what people don't like about this?

The guy had every right to Inherit his dads drug store. He wasn't some lazy a**. He had a vision.

He made a big business from enthusiasm, vision, etc.

He chose to go build a nice house across from Hawerlak. You don't build that to sell (Unless u were Hughes or the person selling the 18M home from Whitemud and 53rd).

He made the most of his opportunity. I don't care if he gets richer. The city benefits.

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02-11-2010, 09:44 PM
  #72
the tikk
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
You are correct on the bolded part and solution is to increase the tax revenue base. Marganalize....w/e. That's where the tax dollars come from as well as corporate sponsorship for the programs that help these people, and oh yeah, JOBS.

Re-vitalize:regenerate: restore strength; "This food revitalized the patient"
give new life or vigor to

To give new life, energy, activity or success to something; To rouse from a state of inactivity or quiescence

revitalized - restored to new life and vigor; "a revitalized economy"; "a revitalized inner-city neighborhood"

Three standard definitions of revitalize. Funny, I didn't see anything about fleecing tax payers for rich people in there.

Obvioulsy you are permanently entrenched in your nice view of the world and how it should work. I prefer reality.
Exactly my point. Neighbourhoods are partly composed of their residents.

You don't mean "revitalize", you mean "repopulate". (And before some meat-head says "same thing" - obviously it's not.)

These sorts of projects don't make the poor less poor. They make the middle class and the rich more distracted.

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02-11-2010, 09:45 PM
  #73
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Why cater to "these people"

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02-11-2010, 09:51 PM
  #74
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wow

what do you feel about a guy like Katx who has the resources to make this city better?

What would u want a guy like him to do instead?

That's IF he wanted to
Lets see he wants to make the city better by having the city take all the risk and he gets all the reward in this 1st proposed deal? He's love to negotiate with you.

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02-11-2010, 09:53 PM
  #75
Seedling
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Exactly my point. Neighbourhoods are partly composed of their residents.

You don't mean "revitalize", you mean "repopulate". (And before some meat-head says "same thing" - obviously it's not.)

These sorts of projects don't make the poor less poor. They make the middle class and the rich more distracted.
No, I mean revitalize. Like I said, if you want to go and misconstrue everything I say to fit your beliefs, fine. That doesn't change reality.

Building new things by definition means getting rid of some of the old. New people mix in, some of the old ones do to, and others move on to other areas.

You still have not proposed a solution that would revitalize the downtown, add tax revenue and increase community involvement downtown. Until you do, you're just another bleeding heart with lots of heat and no light.

EDIT: Here's another one basically saying what I'm saying about revitalization:

REVITALIZATION: The renewal and improvement of older commercial and residential areas through any of a series of actions or programs that encourage and facilitate private and public investment. This community investment can include (but is not limited to) activities and programs designed to improve neighborhoods; strengthen existing businesses; attract new businesses; encourage quality renovation and new construction; enhance public spaces and pedestrian amenities; ensure safe, efficient and convenient traffic flow; and contribute to the social and economic vitality of the area.


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