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02-12-2010, 01:12 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Pretty sure the people who own West Ed still live in the city.
One family.

Who else does besides Katz?

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02-12-2010, 01:16 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by HOF99 View Post
One family.

Who else does besides Katz?
The Epcor guys? How 'bout Qualico?

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02-12-2010, 01:18 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
The Epcor guys? How 'bout Qualico?
They ain't as big.

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02-12-2010, 01:19 AM
  #104
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I'm glad to see Katz step up to help make Edmonton a better place to live/visit. I don't even live in Edmonton anymore and I think it's great for Edmonton.

I hope the City and Katz find a way to make it work. I agree with the originator of the thread - I sure don't see anyone else stepping up to the plate in Edmonton. The City needs to stop thinking like a dink-hick town. Alberta is the economic engine of Canada. Edmonton should be putting itself front and center.

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02-12-2010, 01:31 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by HOF99 View Post
What else do you want?

An Art gallery?
A boardwalk-like entertainment plaza? There's a host of other **** he could build. There's a host of other things that the city of Edmonton could put several hundred million dollars into as well.

Would you honestly support Daryl Katz if he was to ask for several hundred million dollars to do something OTHER than a hockey arena?


NEWS REPORT: Daryl Katz has put forth a bid that for several hundred million dollars that constitutes putting up two high rise buildings, an atrium entertainment plaza between the buildings to allow late night patrons opportunities to walk about regardless of weather and take in sights. He's also established and outdoor area for park with an odeon. His long term goals include revitalization of the downtown core, including building a cultural hotbed, including transitioning events like The Fringe to give it optimum exposure, areas for people to take in plays and outdoor events during the summertime, and partake in activities like the giant outdoor skating rink that brings out portable lights to allow patrons to skate beyond daylight hours. A full entertainment complex is planned just to the south, with a casino and hotel constituting one of the highrises. Katz has decided to not build a hockey rink as he feels Rexall Place is currently sufficient for hockey, and feels as though his current plan will ultimately revitalize downtown more effectively than a hotel and hockey rink.

Still as excited about Katz's idea to revitalize the downtown core?


At least be a man and be honest with everyone. I want this deal to go through because I think that a new arena will improve the Oilers, make my experience attending events at a venue more pleasant, and has the side benefit of improving the downtown core.


To be clear, I support Katz's intentions to build an arena. And I am a resident of the city (have been for the past 10 years... even more if you include my childhood). Make no bones about it though, there's plenty of things that can be done to improve the downtown core, and I have no issues with the ****ing Art Gallery being built either. Personally, I would LOVE a world class museum that essentially is a hybrid of the provincial museum and the Odyssium. Except bigger. Add in places for the museum to put on plays and shows regarding their current exhibits to make it even more interesting, and promote it's attendance at night by providing outdoor areas, and scenic indoor atriums.

I don't think the arena will be bad for the city, but I do think that people saying they want the arena because it will "improve the city" are just rationalizing that they want it because it'll help out their hockey team, and make attending events that you would otherwise attend at Rexall Place more pleasant.

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02-12-2010, 01:32 AM
  #106
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The last poster says it all

Who else in this city wants to improve it?

Katz does

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02-12-2010, 01:40 AM
  #107
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Maybe Katz isn't Batman after all.

Maybe he's Trump.



Last edited by Gret99zky: 02-12-2010 at 01:48 AM.
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02-12-2010, 01:44 AM
  #108
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It's nice to have one person take interest in the revitalization of our downtown. This man has billions of dollars. Sounds like a good match to me. Keep in mind that everything is in the preliminary stages so it is pretty pathetic to see people shooting the idea down. People need to open their minds - opportunities like these do not come often and Edmonton needs something like this. Edmontonians are way too close minded.

Fixing potholes and clearing snow do not make a great city.

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02-12-2010, 01:49 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by twisted by dezign View Post
It's nice to have one person take interest in the revitalization of our downtown. This man has billions of dollars. Sounds like a good match to me. Keep in mind that everything is in the preliminary stages so it is pretty pathetic to see people shooting the idea down. People need to open their minds - opportunities like these do not come often and Edmonton needs something like this. Edmontonians are way too close minded.

Fixing potholes and clearing snow do not make a great city.
yup yup

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02-12-2010, 02:05 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by twisted by dezign View Post

It's nice to have one person take interest in the revitalization of our downtown. This man has billions of dollars.
You know for sure Katz has billions of dollars.... Proof please or admit you are just guessing...

And if you can prove that this successful businessman has billions of dollars, why should those barely able to pay their present taxes subsidize his business venture?


Oops - meant "vision" instead of business venture.....

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02-12-2010, 02:11 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Real_Estate-Agent View Post
You know for sure Katz has billions of dollars.... Proof please or admit you are just guessing...

And if you can prove that this successful businessman has billions of dollars, why should those barely able to pay their present taxes subsidize his business venture?


Oops - meant "vision" instead of business venture.....
Daryl Katz has a net worth CDN$2.43 Billion according to the Canadian Business Magazine.

While that might not mean he has billions of dollars of liquid assets, his net worth enables him to utilize billions of dollars in liquid capital through leveraging it.

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02-12-2010, 02:13 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by oiler-dude View Post
And by "people who frequent Oiler games" did you actually mean to type "people who frequent concerts, Oiler games, rodeos, shows of other sorts, conventions, live downtown, work downtown, spend rec time downtown, eat downtown, tourists who want to stay downtown, students"?
Oh snap.

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02-12-2010, 02:27 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by the tikk View Post
You know what would "better the city"?

Curbing sprawl, investing in infrastructure and funding some responsive social programs to deal with all of those "lazy" drunks you keep stepping over. Expanding transit (working on it), subsidizing education and cultivating some f-ing common sense regarding the importance of neighbourhood and community to the greater economic and cultural well being of the city.

A huge corporate multi-plex in a tiny, underpopulated downtown doesn't address any of these things.
Nothing curbs sprawl more than making downtown a more desirable place to live. Moving the population towards the core.

The proposed downtown area also includes two skyscraper condos. There's also one in the process of being built right behind the property that has stalled and will pick up again once the project gets the green light. If downtown becomes more desirable, it will spur on other condo developments too.

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02-12-2010, 02:51 AM
  #114
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Personally, I have some queries about the dollars and cents of this proposed 'crl' structure through which the city is meant to recoup their money. I also wonder about the idea of the city 'owning' the building but having only the privilege of having the maintenance costs while Katz reaps the money from all events. I'm not necessarily completely sold on the proposal as I currently understand it.

That said, I DO believe that I'm completely for the IDEA of municipal growth, for Edmonton to become a better city. I'm thinking that this proposal is a great idea. The problem I have is with those that hear the term "tax-payer dollars" and run and hide their head in the sand without being willing to explore any critical thinking whatsoever.

We've become so trained in this city to for some reason fear risk and change, that many shoot down proposals right off the bat. "Not with MY tax dollars!", huh. Tax dollars contribute to making one's city better. While the definition is subjective, I fail to see how bringing a multi-faceted sporting/entertainment complex, a beautification undertaking, and the prospect of an increase in tax revenues through further building can WORSEN a city!

Concerns about the project have merit and are valid. But give the idea a chance to fly before pulling the plug. So many Chicken Littles worrying about Tomorrow, when there could well be phenomenal benefits that come from this undertaking FOR the future.

Small town thinking leads to small town experiences. Make your choice.

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02-12-2010, 10:48 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751 View Post
Nothing curbs sprawl more than making downtown a more desirable place to live. Moving the population towards the core.

The proposed downtown area also includes two skyscraper condos. There's also one in the process of being built right behind the property that has stalled and will pick up again once the project gets the green light. If downtown becomes more desirable, it will spur on other condo developments too.
Unfortunately it may take quite a bit of effort to make downtown more desirable. Revitalization efforts have been slow due to lack of businesses moving in and the lack of the public buying into downtown. The arena may be an excellent catalyst for revitalization, though. As soon as the public sees the value in this and can see it as their own, then the chances of a successful revitalization are greater.

The City of Edmonton needs to focus more on infill development so that people see the value of living in the inner city. Of course, it is easier said than done unless Council buys into that mentality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dookers9 View Post
Personally, I have some queries about the dollars and cents of this proposed 'crl' structure through which the city is meant to recoup their money. I also wonder about the idea of the city 'owning' the building but having only the privilege of having the maintenance costs while Katz reaps the money from all events. I'm not necessarily completely sold on the proposal as I currently understand it.

That said, I DO believe that I'm completely for the IDEA of municipal growth, for Edmonton to become a better city. I'm thinking that this proposal is a great idea. The problem I have is with those that hear the term "tax-payer dollars" and run and hide their head in the sand without being willing to explore any critical thinking whatsoever.

We've become so trained in this city to for some reason fear risk and change, that many shoot down proposals right off the bat. "Not with MY tax dollars!", huh. Tax dollars contribute to making one's city better. While the definition is subjective, I fail to see how bringing a multi-faceted sporting/entertainment complex, a beautification undertaking, and the prospect of an increase in tax revenues through further building can WORSEN a city!

Concerns about the project have merit and are valid. But give the idea a chance to fly before pulling the plug. So many Chicken Littles worrying about Tomorrow, when there could well be phenomenal benefits that come from this undertaking FOR the future.

Small town thinking leads to small town experiences. Make your choice.
A CRL is a good method of funding development but it can't be the only source of funding. The proposal is still in the preliminary stage so I am sure it will not represent the final result.

Joe Pubic's small-town mentality is a very big reason why Edmonton has stalled in growth as a large urban center. The public is a key player in revitalization and their whining doesn't make anything better at all. Revitalization requires the public to buy into whatever it is being redeveloped.

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02-12-2010, 10:57 AM
  #116
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The way I look at this situation is the same way I viewed the sports and aquatics complexes in Beaumont and Leduc. When the ideas initially came out to the public of what they wanted to do the ideas were voted down in at least 3 or 4 public votes.

After being voted down several times in both cases, somehow the proposed project got pushed through and before long ground was broken to start both projects. Now that the town of beaumont has their aquatic centre and Leduc has their huge addition to the Black Gold centre everyone in the town and quieted down and enjoy the facilities. I haven't heard one qualm in Beaumont about the aquatic centre and I am actively involved in the community.

I got a feeling this will be the same, its a huge expenditure of money people will be pissed. Before long the project will be done and we carry on.

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02-12-2010, 11:05 AM
  #117
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Speaking from experience as a planner, if a developer/municipality really wants to get something done, they will even if members of the public detest it. Usually the people that come out vocally against something are the people that only care because it is near their property (NIMBYers) or involves paying a bit more on taxes; i.e. most of the public does not care or actually does support it but cannot care enough to come out. The public has a very short memory once things are all said and done.

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02-12-2010, 11:28 AM
  #118
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Downtown is such a joke right now. I'm embarrassed when friends come vist and want to go to Downtown. So many bums, etc.

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02-12-2010, 11:30 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
The way I look at this situation is the same way I viewed the sports and aquatics complexes in Beaumont and Leduc. When the ideas initially came out to the public of what they wanted to do the ideas were voted down in at least 3 or 4 public votes.

After being voted down several times in both cases, somehow the proposed project got pushed through and before long ground was broken to start both projects. Now that the town of beaumont has their aquatic centre and Leduc has their huge addition to the Black Gold centre everyone in the town and quieted down and enjoy the facilities. I haven't heard one qualm in Beaumont about the aquatic centre and I am actively involved in the community.

I got a feeling this will be the same, its a huge expenditure of money people will be pissed. Before long the project will be done and we carry on.
I haven't heard ONE complaint about the Rec Centre here in Leduc. Everyone in the community loves it. I'm quite active in the community as well. So as another poster pointed out, people have short memories.

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02-12-2010, 12:03 PM
  #120
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I haven't heard ONE complaint about the Rec Centre here in Leduc. Everyone in the community loves it. I'm quite active in the community as well. So as another poster pointed out, people have short memories.
You won't convince backward thinking deadmontonions.

I'm 29 and was born and raised here. I want what's best for this city. I don't care how much money the visionary has.

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02-12-2010, 12:51 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Real_Estate-Agent View Post
You obviously have no idea of the history of WEM - why pretend otherwise...

Visionaries are nothing more than acid freaks or magic mushroom indulgers - why are they your Gurus.....
Yeah, you obvioulsy don't have the mental faculties to further your argument by citing specifics to support your point of view.

You started off great, but then you trailed off into the typical position of a weak debate stance of painting all people of vision as acid freaks. Brilliant. Truly.

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02-12-2010, 12:54 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Real_Estate-Agent View Post
You know for sure Katz has billions of dollars.... Proof please or admit you are just guessing...

And if you can prove that this successful businessman has billions of dollars, why should those barely able to pay their present taxes subsidize his business venture?


Oops - meant "vision" instead of business venture.....
Are you serious?

I've been asked for financials when looking for a big house.

You don't think his liquid assets could more than pay for this?

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02-12-2010, 01:00 PM
  #123
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I haven't heard ONE complaint about the Rec Centre here in Leduc. Everyone in the community loves it. I'm quite active in the community as well. So as another poster pointed out, people have short memories.
There was some grumbling about the tax levy in Spruce Grove, Stony Plain and Parkland County about the Trans-Alta Tri Leisure centre when it was proposed. Then when it was put in, the area had the third highest growth rate in Alberta for three straight years during the boom.

Another example of how a tax/corporate funding model has bettered the community. Tonnes of high density housing surrounds it, businesses and it also attracts people from a very wide catchment area that would not have otherwise had access to these types of facilities.

I see the Katz proposal as the same thing but on a much, much bigger level. There all always nay sayers. F them IMHO. When all is said and done they will be enjoying all the wonderfull upgrades as well as us. It's really a small price to pay and from what I've seen, the proposal Katz has is proposing the leveraging of the potential new tax dollars to fund it instead of a tax levy. That's about as good as it gets to me.

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02-12-2010, 01:28 PM
  #124
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I also guarantee that everyone in here who is *****ing about this arena has spent their disposable income on some useless crap.

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02-12-2010, 02:39 PM
  #125
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I also guarantee that everyone in here who is *****ing about this arena has spent their disposable income on some useless crap.
'Dunno if I'm interpreting you right, but just because what you have posted is true, it in no way justifies moving forward with a grandiose, expensive undertaking such is Katz' proposal if it isn't a fiscally responsible venture.

Yeah, I've spent disposable income on "useless crap". And haven't thought twice about some of the lesser purchases. But my hope would be that I'd have learned from some of those more pricey faulty expenditures and will make more wise decisions in future.

For those of us that aren't yet prepared to endorse the current structure of the proposal as is, I would hope it is from the standpoint of being strategic and fiscally responsible rather than simply not prepared to invest yet again in said useless crap.

Just like any other corporate dealing, this is a negotiation. Perhaps there's valid leg to stand on to say: We'll take your 'x' but raise your 'y'. An unquestioning "Yes, Mr. Katz, whatever you say, Mr. Katz" approach is predictably political suicide (for good reason) for many councillors. Let's be patient and see what the outcome of the process is.

That said, I'm on record saying that I'm on board with the ideology of the plan. I want to know that it's the best deal for all involved, but assuming so, I am pro-growth for this lazy city.

THAT'S my issue: the compulsive, extremist social democratic nay-sayers that wig out on reflex the second that a proposal for funds is made that sees no allotment of said funds to soup kitchens or homelessness. As critical such issues are, there is room for other forms of growth, additional means of "improving" the city. An injection of energy into the city's core through the arena project intrigues and excites me.

There's always risk, but sometimes radical investment is the requirement for positive change. All too often there appears to be a lack of representation for this perspective in this town.

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