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Failed comeback attempt 2.0, same old Sabres

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Old
02-12-2010, 12:45 AM
  #76
sabresandcanucks
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Well....Is it time to break out the Nino Niederreiter fan club or what? As in, we might be picking 10-13th by the time this mess is over.

On the plus, I thought Myers played well....and so did Miller other than the Yelle goal.

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02-12-2010, 12:54 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Lindy4Prez View Post
Because the "core" hasn't done **** without Briere and Drury. Period. and that point was already made.
Ruff hasnt done **** since Briere and Drury left... just like he didnt do **** after Hasek left.

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Your so hellbent on ****canning Lindy that you don't realize the real problem: A general manager/managing partner who decided that Thomas Vanek, Derek Roy, Tim Connolly and Jason Pominville could carry the load offensively. Remember that the coach can only work with the roster that he has. What the hell do you expect? You think Ket Hitchcock is going to come in and get Vanek back to 40 goal seasons?
Derek Roy had 80 pt season. Vanek scored 40 goals LAST YEAR. Miller has shown Vezina capabilities... over the last 100 games, Connolly is playing at over .90 ppg rate... Myers is a stud. Pominville and Hecht have shown high end 2 way games... Ruff has plenty to work with, he cant get consistency out of his players.

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Ruff's system for the first half of the year WORKED. You seem to forget that when the team moves away from RUFF's system, we lose. You seem to forget that starting Patrick Lalime is essentially forefitting a game. Ruff has gotten more out of this team than any coach around could, plain and simple. Especially when you only have two defenseman that are playing as Top 4 D, a Top 6 that doesn't exist, and a rookie center who's in over his head.
Miller stood on his ****ing head the first half... the system didn't work... Miller was playing at a generational level for 2 months.

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Pull your head out of the sand and see the real problem with the Buffalo Sabres: The makeup of the roster. Until the offensive core changes, we are at a standstill. And the ONLY way that happens is if Regier gets the axe, or we booze him up, get him high, and hope he grows the liquid balls to trade one of "his" guys.
the only way the core changes is if Regier is fired... if Regier is fired, Ruff goes too. so you've got yourself a predicament. Can Ruff win with this roster? If the answer is NO, then you should be ALL FOR finding someone who might be able to.

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This team is soft, both mentally and physically. And that's namely because we have a forward core that was built on a ultra quick, transition style offensive system that stopped working by April of 2008. Ruff's fault? wrong. Regier's? We'll let the omnipotent Jame figure that one out.
if all these players were signed for that system, it would be bad coaching to continuosly try to fit a square peg in a round hole... that would be bad coaching.

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02-12-2010, 12:56 AM
  #78
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I don't think its a certainty that a new GM would instantly fire Ruff. I actually think, knowing how popular Lindy is in Buffalo, a new GM would give Ruff the first crack at coaching the team.

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02-12-2010, 12:56 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
Well....Is it time to break out the Nino Niederreiter fan club or what? As in, we might be picking 10-13th by the time this mess is over.

On the plus, I thought Myers played well....and so did Miller other than the Yelle goal.
Even then, that was on a 2 on 1.

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02-12-2010, 12:59 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I don't want to see what James Patrick could do with this team, no. I don't care for that. Nor should you, because all of his coaching tendencies will have come from Ruff.

And after watching Roy pout and underperform, Vanek be lazy and fail to score consistent big goals, Stafford play inconsistent, and Pominville taper off to an average offensive player, I'm inclined to break a piece of that off and keep Ruff.

Obviously, if you had me pick between Ruff AND Regier staying and trading one of those guys, or Ruff and Regier going and all of those guys staying, I'm taking the former.


But now we can both go to sleep, because therein lies the problem. I've seen enough from Vanek, Roy, Connolly, Stafford, Poms, and Hecht as the top-6 to know that I don't care for them, as composed, as a top-6. You'd rather see what a different coach could do with that group, I wouldn't. I remain unimpressed by them as a unit and would rather keep the coach who I KNOW CAN WIN and give him a new body or two.

And yeah, I'd be willing to give Ruff another FIVE years to see what he could do if it meant trading a center and Vanek for a chance to do a legit rebuild.
what do you like about Ruff? dont give me crap about records... tell me, in your EXPERTISE, what you like about him, what makes him good...

youve seen enough of the top 6 to know that you dont like them... i find that interesting, because individually... most of the top 6 has proven the ability to do certain things.
Vanek has proven the ability to score 40 goals
Roy has proven the ability to put up points
Connolly has proven the ability to be consistent all over the ice
Poms has proven the ability to be a good 2 way winger

YET they cant seem to play consistently at their talent levels... yet, you want to keep the coach who cant get them to perform to their abilities... you want to give this coach different talents, yet expect these guys to perform under a coach who historically has never gotten consistent play from his roster

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02-12-2010, 01:03 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i guess we watched different games. I thought he was good...
I also thought Vanek played a pretty good game. Nothing stellar but good. He got robbed on a nice play which he then turned into a goal for Roy and I don't recall any bad plays offhand.

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02-12-2010, 01:13 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
what do you like about Ruff? dont give me crap about records... tell me, in your EXPERTISE, what you like about him, what makes him good...

youve seen enough of the top 6 to know that you dont like them... i find that interesting, because individually... most of the top 6 has proven the ability to do certain things.
Vanek has proven the ability to score 40 goals
Roy has proven the ability to put up points
Connolly has proven the ability to be consistent all over the ice
Poms has proven the ability to be a good 2 way winger

YET they cant seem to play consistently at their talent levels... yet, you want to keep the coach who cant get them to perform to their abilities... you want to give this coach different talents, yet expect these guys to perform under a coach who historically has never gotten consistent play from his roster
I find it ironic that you are left to defend the very guys you were sickened to learn were signed to extensions.

You've seen them MAX OUT as secondary players and flail as spotlight, feature guys.

Why I like Ruff:

- team discipline
- versatility in terms of coaching style... he has coached all types of teams
- having played the game, he knows what it takes to be a professional...i'm taking his word over Roy's whines
- prior to the past few games, his teams didn't give up leads... strong at playing from in front.
- and teams do NOT quit when down
- accountability
- balancing out forwards that needed help
- identifies key guys and rides them if and when appropriate
- trusts his staff and allows them to teach, but knows that his word is the word
- keeps the team and the room on the same page
- community guy, blue collar
- ability to properly coach the forecheck, knowing when to send in an appropriate amount of guys
- comprehension of blocking the shooting lanes, making every one of our guys better at blocking shots (most notably Connolly)... Ruff preaches an active stick and the entrance into the shooting lanes and it's one thing his players get

Now go on and curse about how each one of those is wrong...because I'll reply with identical reciprocity. You have your list of hatred, and I of content. I guess that's it.

hey:

Remember when I was ripping Ruff? "UNFOLD YOUR ARMS, SHOW SOME PASSION!!" Right? I was wrong. This team, as is, is not good enough to get the job done. It's bigger than Ruff.

- Vanek has proven he can't carry the offense to where it needs to be
- Roy has proven that, while effective as a #1 center, isn't good enough to make up for the rest of the not-properly-comprised top-6
- Poms IS a reliable two-way winger.... that isn't getting the job done

they CAN play consistently at their talent levels...it's what they're doing now. They peaked as secondary guys to Briere, Drury, Dumont, Hecht, etc, and can't hack it in the spotlight.

It's bigger than Ruff. It's bigger than Ruff. It's bigger than Ruff.

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02-12-2010, 01:26 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I find it ironic that you are left to defend the very guys you were sickened to learn were signed to extensions.

You've seen them MAX OUT as secondary players and flail as spotlight, feature guys.

Why I like Ruff:

- team discipline debatable
- versatility in terms of coaching style... he has coached all types of teams successfully?
- having played the game, he knows what it takes to be a professional...i'm taking his word over Roy's whines big deal, he still needed to bring in the rivets and griers because he couldnt teach it to his players himself
- prior to the past few games, his teams didn't give up leads... strong at playing from in front. wow... we forget the pre lockout, the end of 2008 and 2009quickly
- and teams do NOT quit when down was that true pre lockout?
- accountability hahahahahaha
- balancing out forwards that needed help what?
- identifies key guys and rides them if and when appropriate id say he does this inappropriately
- trusts his staff and allows them to teach, but knows that his word is the word conjecture
- keeps the team and the room on the same page yea...ok
- community guy, blue collar true
- ability to properly coach the forecheck, knowing when to send in an appropriate amount of guys yea, those pinching dmen are working out real well this year
- comprehension of blocking the shooting lanes, making every one of our guys better at blocking shots (most notably Connolly)... Ruff preaches an active stick and the entrance into the shooting lanes and it's one thing his players get im sure no other coach can do that...

Now go on and curse about how each one of those is wrong...because I'll reply with identical reciprocity. You have your list of hatred, and I of content. I guess that's it.

hey:

Remember when I was ripping Ruff? "UNFOLD YOUR ARMS, SHOW SOME PASSION!!" Right? I was wrong. This team, as is, is not good enough to get the job done. It's bigger than Ruff.

- Vanek has proven he can't carry the offense to where it needs to be
- Roy has proven that, while effective as a #1 center, isn't good enough to make up for the rest of the not-properly-comprised top-6
- Poms IS a reliable two-way winger.... that isn't getting the job done

they CAN play consistently at their talent levels...it's what they're doing now. They peaked as secondary guys to Briere, Drury, Dumont, Hecht, etc, and can't hack it in the spotlight.

It's bigger than Ruff. It's bigger than Ruff. It's bigger than Ruff.
Roy and Poms both had their best seasons post co capts... Vanek has a 40 goal season post co capts... Millers best numbers are post co capts...Connolly is having his best season.

such a cop out

nothing is bigger then ruff

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02-12-2010, 01:39 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Roy and Poms both had their best seasons post co capts... Vanek has a 40 goal season post co capts... Millers best numbers are post co capts...Connolly is having his best season.

such a cop out

nothing is bigger then ruff
Yeah, you really can't use Roy to make your case against Ruff when you've been trashing the guy the entire year.

This top-six just isn't good enough on paper. Regier hasn't done a single thing to change that since the 07-08' season.

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02-12-2010, 01:44 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post

Why I like Ruff:
- accountability
I'm not in the "Fire Ruff" camp, Lindy's still the man in my book.

But he only holds people accountable if they aren't in his "Little Book of Favorites".

He never benched Drury, Briere, Hecht, Roy, Pommer, Goose, Lydman, Butler, Rivet (his one benching this season is an exception) etc.
No matter how badly they performed.

At most, he called them out in the media.

On the other hand, **********, Dumont, Kalinin, Max, MacArthur, Sekera, Vanek play(ed) under added pressure, and especially for young and developing players, that's just not good.

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02-12-2010, 01:49 AM
  #86
Irving Zisman
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Ruff hasnt done **** since Briere and Drury left... just like he didnt do **** after Hasek left.
Once again, something that you can't comprehend, we've (Quinn/Regier) forced secondary scoring players from the Briere and Drury days (Vanek, Roy, Poms) into primary offensive roles. Something they have PROVEN their ineptitude for. Ruff's fault they can't handle such duties? WRONG.

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Derek Roy had 80 pt season. Vanek scored 40 goals LAST YEAR. Miller has shown Vezina capabilities... over the last 100 games, Connolly is playing at over .90 ppg rate... Myers is a stud. Pominville and Hecht have shown high end 2 way games... Ruff has plenty to work with, he cant get consistency out of his players..
Roy's offensive game has been in decline since that 80 pt season. His suck continues to grow. And yet you of all people are pimping him Vanek has not been the same since his jaw was shattered. Ruff's fault? WRONG.



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Miller stood on his ****ing head the first half... the system didn't work... Miller was playing at a generational level for 2 months..
The system allowed for low percentage shots (albeit more shots total) as well as a complete team collapse in front of the net in the defensive zone. Many have agreed that Miller's play was near this level last year, although his numbers were slightly worse due to a more offensive system that allowed more odd-man rushes against. Again, to say Lindy's new system didn't work is WRONG.



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the only way the core changes is if Regier is fired... if Regier is fired, Ruff goes too. so you've got yourself a predicament. Can Ruff win with this roster? If the answer is NO, then you should be ALL FOR finding someone who might be able to.
The ****? Says who Jame. Did your crystal ball tell you that? Any general manager with a clue for the way the game is heading (strong, big, and fast) would realize the MAJOR flaws of this offense and that it's not all on Lindy ****ing Ruff. Again, your point is WRONG.


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if all these players were signed for that system, it would be bad coaching to continuosly try to fit a square peg in a round hole... that would be bad coaching.
What!? How? The coach works with what he is given by management. What do you suggest? Oh wait, I know, playing Gaustad and Kaleta as Top 6 regulars

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02-12-2010, 02:20 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Roy and Poms both had their best seasons post co capts... Vanek has a 40 goal season post co capts... Millers best numbers are post co capts...Connolly is having his best season.

such a cop out

nothing is bigger then ruff
Roy's BEST season led us nowhere. If you want to pretend like Vanek played well last year, be my guest. His 40 goals took us right...nowhere. Connolly's rising numbers are coupled with the team's deteriorating play. There's an alternative to everything.

Roy and Vanek can't put it together now in Miller's best year as a pro. Miller has called them out. IT'S THE PLAYERS. Did he say "coach should start motivating Roysie to play like this every night..." or "Vanek looks decent when he's moving his feet, Ruff should play him more" .... "Ruff should rest me".

Forgive me. You've already pointed out the solution, why you hate Lindy, etc. It's because he wont put Kaleta and Goose in the top-6.
The cop out is taking the easy way out.... firing a coach that has been here through all types of teams and scenarios is something I'm against, especially if you're trying to say it's because you want to keep the same core.

It's bigger than Ruff.


Last edited by jBuds: 02-12-2010 at 02:28 AM.
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02-12-2010, 02:24 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Did he say "coach should start motivating Roysie to play like this every night..." or "Vanek looks decent when he's moving his feet, Ruff should play him more" .... "Ruff should rest me".
Yeah, that's something a player is going to say in a post-game interview. Come on now.

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02-12-2010, 02:28 AM
  #89
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Yeah, that's something a player is going to say in a post-game interview. Come on now.
Obviously. that's not the point, though... the players are not good enough

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02-12-2010, 02:31 AM
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Obviously. that's not the point, though... the players are not good enough
We don't know that. Nobody knows that. For all we know, they could play more consistently under someone else. Or they could turn out worse, who knows.

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02-12-2010, 02:37 AM
  #91
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We don't know that. Nobody knows that. For all we know, they could play more consistently under someone else. Or they could turn out worse, who knows.
Wonderful insight. You've summarized the entire debate, both sides. I can sleep now

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02-12-2010, 07:15 AM
  #92
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So... not to rag on Miller, but isn't the only difference with this club Miller's GAA and SV%? We knew offense was a problem when they were winning close games 2-1 and 3-2, we were just hoping that Miller was the second coming of Marty Brodeur.

Now that we know he isn't, management has their work cut out giving this team a chance to win when they let in 3 goals.

Here's hoping Quick gets the nod in Vancouver...

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02-12-2010, 07:17 AM
  #93
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Used Miller for all but 10 minutes of it. That were this epic fail began. Lalime should've gone back in vs San Jose or Vancouver, but Ruff will NOT use a backup to break a losing streak and in this case, that coaching decision helped this thing snowball
Who says we would have won with Lalime? Just clarifies this team is nothing without Miller. But of course this is Ruffs' fault. This team is middling at best. Crafted by Reiger.

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02-12-2010, 07:32 AM
  #94
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2 wins in what amounts to 20% of the season. Wow. I suppose Regier is still "looking internally".... Glad I missed most of this one.

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Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
Well....Is it time to break out the Nino Niederreiter fan club or what? As in, we might be picking 10-13th by the time this mess is over.

On the plus, I thought Myers played well....and so did Miller other than the Yelle goal.
Nino is this year's hype darling... I doubt he slides out of the top 10.

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02-12-2010, 07:33 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
We don't know that. Nobody knows that. For all we know, they could play more consistently under someone else. Or they could turn out worse, who knows.
Or they'd be the same bunch of soft little girls they are now.

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02-12-2010, 07:34 AM
  #96
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Quote:
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So... not to rag on Miller, but isn't the only difference with this club Miller's GAA and SV%? We knew offense was a problem when they were winning close games 2-1 and 3-2, we were just hoping that Miller was the second coming of Marty Brodeur.

Now that we know he isn't, management has their work cut out giving this team a chance to win when they let in 3 goals.

Here's hoping Quick gets the nod in Vancouver...
The other part is that the defense has been breaking down more regularly and Miller hasn't been spectacular in bailing them out.

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02-12-2010, 07:50 AM
  #97
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I also thought Vanek played a pretty good game. Nothing stellar but good. He got robbed on a nice play which he then turned into a goal for Roy and I don't recall any bad plays offhand.
He was mostly invisible when playing with Kennedy and Griere but immediately came to life when put back with Roy and Stafford. Good job by Ruff to put them back together in the 3rd to get the tying goal. The offense was invisible from the end of the first period until their first shift together. Carolina had them completely pushed to the outside and bottled up.

Ta,

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02-12-2010, 08:34 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Placek View Post
So... not to rag on Miller, but isn't the only difference with this club Miller's GAA and SV%? We knew offense was a problem when they were winning close games 2-1 and 3-2, we were just hoping that Miller was the second coming of Marty Brodeur.

Now that we know he isn't, management has their work cut out giving this team a chance to win when they let in 3 goals.

Here's hoping Quick gets the nod in Vancouver...
Our entire defense not named Myers or Tallinder has been taking turns ******** the bed for a month now. No one is finding chemistry as a pairing other than the top two guys. This defense is scary bad outside of Hank and Myers right now.

Combine that with our scoring woes, and Miller getting worn down and not covering as many mistakes, and you get what we're seeing - a team that plays like a basement dweller, a team that can't even beat the worst team in the East even when they're given an absolutely horrible backup goalie to feast on.

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02-12-2010, 08:56 AM
  #99
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Not that you weren't already firmly entrenched in the "so biased against Roy that he cannot be taken seriously when it comes to Roy" crew, but this makes it official. All...ONE of his giveaways really pissed you off that much? Jeezus.

Roy was their best player tonight and, frankly, it wasn't all that close. He's so selfish that he set up Mac perfectly in the 1st and then made that great play where he kept the puck in by catching it, did a behind-the-back glove pass to himself and slid it over to our $7 million "sniper" who promptly got stoned by the great Manny Legace, followed by Roy doing what Vanek could not do, namely score the god**** goal.

So, while you and others will continuously ***** about his play (and, really, if you're going to complain about tonight, when won't you complain), I'll thank him for even earning us a point in the first place.

Un-****ing-believable.
Roy may as well play on the 4th line with Ellis and Mair, because he doesn't use his wingers effectively anyway. This is the same Roy that racks up points while his team misses the playoffs. His selfish play was obvious to me last night, and he needs to get switched to wing ASAP if this team wants to win games.

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02-12-2010, 09:12 AM
  #100
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Nino is this year's hype darling... I doubt he slides out of the top 10.
We'll be there, Chain. We'll be there.

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