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Will Bobby Ryan eventually come to Philly? Maybe?

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Old
02-16-2010, 08:01 PM
  #101
captainpaxil
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i heard a little peice of urban legend i cant find an answer for on google. why dont they call icing on the pwerplay?

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Old
02-16-2010, 08:36 PM
  #102
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i apologize for the direction of this thread.

i'm going to retract "not even close," stand by lindros>clarke (with parent being the most impactful player of the three), and say that--if i had a franchise--i'd start with lindros, trade away parent, and hope to get him back a few years later.

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Old
02-16-2010, 09:45 PM
  #103
Kermit the Prog
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I hope you don't mind a "newer" poster chiming in again.

When it comes to pure all-around talent, it is hard to argue against Lindros being at the top of the Flyers' totem pole. There have been a number of supremely talented skaters in the history of the franchise (Clarke, MacLeish, Barber, Leach, Propp, Kerr, Howe, Recchi, LeClair, etc.) and many others a notch below, if we are going by seasonal point totals. Lindros did have a complete game (which included his physical play) that stands out to anyone who has even a passing interest in hockey.

That being said, Bobby Clarke, though not in possession of Lindros's physical skills, was still a very talented player. He had great hands, received the check to make an accurate pass, went into every corner (usually coming out with the puck), was the best forechecker I have ever seen, was extremely dirty and made every teammate better. No one wanted to take a shift off because they didn't want to be seen working any less than #16. Clarke was like Pete Rose - he had talent, sure, but the only way he was going to succeed was to work harder than any other player in the sport. He could have scored many more goals but he preferred to let his line/unit-mates score. He was the ultimate unselfish player and I wish those who never had a chance to see him play could watch a full season of Bobby Clarke. He was ALWAYS making something happen on the ice. He was an anomaly - a shut-down center who was often the leading scorer on the team at the end of the year

Changing direction here, I don't dispute Crosby's talents. They are immense and obvious, even though I don't care for him, personally. However, Crosby is not on the same level as Gretzky in his prime. Crosby's game is more physical in that he relies on his strength and speed. Gretzky's greatest asset was his unparalleled vision. He often said his father, Walter, would instruct him to not go where the puck is, but where the puck is going. No one passed with as much accuracy and deftness and no one found the holes to the net like him. I agree with goalies of today having many advantages over their 1980s counterparts (along with more video, better conditioning, etc.), but Gretzky was all about deking the goaltender out of his jock that even goalies of today would fall victim to. When deking and feinting was not an option, he had the uncanny ability to shoot the puck through a mail slot. He was that good and that accurate.

Statistics tell a story - you'll get no argument from me about that - but they don't tell the whole story. I remember when the four WHA teams were absorbed into the NHL. The Oilers had four players with hockey cards coming into that season, one of which was Wayne Gretzky. I studied the back of his card (as I always did back then) and saw he had 46 goals and 64 assists...at age 17/18?? Nah, it had to be a misprint. Let me get a good look at this guy when he plays in the NHL. Was he going to be another Anders Hedberg or Ulf Nilsson - two earlier WHA imports who never achieved nearly the same statistical success in the NHL? I was actually glad when the NHL gave the scoring title to Marcel Dionne that first year #99 played in the league (Dionne had more goals), but I knew I was seeing a special player who was going to dwarf the point totals of Dionne, LaFleur and Trottier. Do I think he would score 200 points again if he was in his prime? Doubtful. But I think it is equally doubtful anyone would have more points than him for many years, even Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin.

I've seen Gretzky's career since his first year in the NHL. I've seen the great Canadiens teams, the Bullies, the Big, Bad Bruins and the early-80s Islanders. I've seen so many Hall of Fame players and there are some here who have seen even more than me. I'm not one of those, "Well, back in my day, the players were so much better..." geezers who inspire so much eye-rolling. I actually HATED Gretzky maybe as much as despise Crosby, but I have to give credit where it is due. Wayne Gretzky could almost bend every game to his will. Prognosticating is a fool's game, but if was forced at gun point to predict what he would score in today's game, 50 goals and 110 assists feels about right. Don't let his massive amount of assists fool you - he was a HELL of a goal scorer, too.

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Old
02-16-2010, 10:15 PM
  #104
Chicken Chaser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit the Prog View Post
I hope you don't mind a "newer" poster chiming in again.

When it comes to pure all-around talent, it is hard to argue against Lindros being at the top of the Flyers' totem pole. There have been a number of supremely talented skaters in the history of the franchise (Clarke, MacLeish, Barber, Leach, Propp, Kerr, Howe, Recchi, LeClair, etc.) and many others a notch below, if we are going by seasonal point totals. Lindros did have a complete game (which included his physical play) that stands out to anyone who has even a passing interest in hockey.

That being said, Bobby Clarke, though not in possession of Lindros's physical skills, was still a very talented player. He had great hands, received the check to make an accurate pass, went into every corner (usually coming out with the puck), was the best forechecker I have ever seen, was extremely dirty and made every teammate better. No one wanted to take a shift off because they didn't want to be seen working any less than #16. Clarke was like Pete Rose - he had talent, sure, but the only way he was going to succeed was to work harder than any other player in the sport. He could have scored many more goals but he preferred to let his line/unit-mates score. He was the ultimate unselfish player and I wish those who never had a chance to see him play could watch a full season of Bobby Clarke. He was ALWAYS making something happen on the ice. He was an anomaly - a shut-down center who was often the leading scorer on the team at the end of the year

Changing direction here, I don't dispute Crosby's talents. They are immense and obvious, even though I don't care for him, personally. However, Crosby is not on the same level as Gretzky in his prime. Crosby's game is more physical in that he relies on his strength and speed. Gretzky's greatest asset was his unparalleled vision. He often said his father, Walter, would instruct him to not go where the puck is, but where the puck is going. No one passed with as much accuracy and deftness and no one found the holes to the net like him. I agree with goalies of today having many advantages over their 1980s counterparts (along with more video, better conditioning, etc.), but Gretzky was all about deking the goaltender out of his jock that even goalies of today would fall victim to. When deking and feinting was not an option, he had the uncanny ability to shoot the puck through a mail slot. He was that good and that accurate.

Statistics tell a story - you'll get no argument from me about that - but they don't tell the whole story. I remember when the four WHA teams were absorbed into the NHL. The Oilers had four players with hockey cards coming into that season, one of which was Wayne Gretzky. I studied the back of his card (as I always did back then) and saw he had 46 goals and 64 assists...at age 17/18?? Nah, it had to be a misprint. Let me get a good look at this guy when he plays in the NHL. Was he going to be another Anders Hedberg or Ulf Nilsson - two earlier WHA imports who never achieved nearly the same statistical success in the NHL? I was actually glad when the NHL gave the scoring title to Marcel Dionne that first year #99 played in the league (Dionne had more goals), but I knew I was seeing a special player who was going to dwarf the point totals of Dionne, LaFleur and Trottier. Do I think he would score 200 points again if he was in his prime? Doubtful. But I think it is equally doubtful anyone would have more points than him for many years, even Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin.

I've seen Gretzky's career since his first year in the NHL. I've seen the great Canadiens teams, the Bullies, the Big, Bad Bruins and the early-80s Islanders. I've seen so many Hall of Fame players and there are some here who have seen even more than me. I'm not one of those, "Well, back in my day, the players were so much better..." geezers who inspire so much eye-rolling. I actually HATED Gretzky maybe as much as despise Crosby, but I have to give credit where it is due. Wayne Gretzky could almost bend every game to his will. Prognosticating is a fool's game, but if was forced at gun point to predict what he would score in today's game, 50 goals and 110 assists feels about right. Don't let his massive amount of assists fool you - he was a HELL of a goal scorer, too.


Nice post, welcome to the boards, and LOVE your avatar hahahaha....

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Old
02-17-2010, 12:28 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit the Prog View Post
Do I think he would score 200 points again if he was in his prime? Doubtful. But I think it is equally doubtful anyone would have more points than him for many years, even Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin.
Mathematically, with this being a lower scoring era, 155-165 would be the range that would equal 200ish points in a season. And I doubt that anyone who averaged 2 points per game over the course of an entire season in today's NHL could be considered anything other than one of the very best ever.

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Old
02-18-2010, 01:48 AM
  #106
Flyerfan808
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This thread is spiraling out of control!

I say more Bobby Ryan, less comparisons of hockey players who played in different generations.

(Though a separate thread would be awsome!)

I think it will be an interesting test of Ryan's homerism to see if he eventually makes it out here?

First off, I bet he is a very happy camper in SoCal... Nice weather, hot women, beaches, & golf. Not to mention he is filling a crucial role on a promising Ducks team and will receive a handsomely upgraded salary in the near future.

Will he forsake all that to come play for the Flyers? Live out his childhood dream? Be closer to his friends and family? Try to help win a Cup for his hometeam?

Weighing empathy against logic; I would say that yes, someday we will see Ryan in O&B, but I dare not speculate as to when.

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