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Old
02-13-2010, 04:48 PM
  #26
Dan Barr
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Feds is already on the right side. It's Kunitz, Dupuis, Cooke and Rupp on the left.

I am convinced that Nick Johnson and Luca Caputi could do better than Feds as a top-six right-winger.
Absolutely. Malkin's line looked much better when either of those guys were on it.

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02-13-2010, 08:51 PM
  #27
Sidgeni Malkby
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Originally Posted by The Mighty Boosh View Post
Again, time and time again is hyperbole. He has had 2, TWO decent playoff campaigns out of seven appearances in the playoffs. That is not a "proven playoff warrior," nor does it show he "brings it" time and time again in the playoffs. People really reach when trying to find some way to show that he isn't a completely useless hockey player, lol.
Here is the list of guys I wouldn't cry to see go to upgrade:
1) Pascale Dupuis - $1.4M (1 more year left)
2) Feds - $1.8M (UFA)
3) Superstar - $1.05M (1 more year left)
4) Billy G - $2M (UFA)

All I was saying was Feds isn't necessarily at the top of the list to go first....well he's 2nd.

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02-13-2010, 09:09 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BigHockeyFan View Post
Here is the list of guys I wouldn't cry to see go to upgrade:
1) Pascal Dupuis - $1.4M (1 more year left)
2) Feds - $1.8M (UFA)
3) Superstar - $1.05M (1 more year left)
4) Billy G - $2M (UFA)

All I was saying was Feds isn't necessarily at the top of the list to go first....well he's 2nd.
No way. Dupuis has earned his ice time this season. The way he has played with consistency, I wouldn't want to move him at this point. Of course, if somebody is asking for him, that's a different story. But if we're moving out a player to create cap space, they HAVE to choose Fedotenko before Dupuis.

Honestly, if Fedotenko is still on the team on March 4, it sends the wrong message. You have to earn your playoff ice time. Just like Sykora and Dupuis last spring, who both didn't play nearly as much as they would have wanted. They didn't earn it.

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02-13-2010, 09:53 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
No way. Dupuis has earned his ice time this season. The way he has played with consistency, I wouldn't want to move him at this point. Of course, if somebody is asking for him, that's a different story. But if we're moving out a player to create cap space, they HAVE to choose Fedotenko before Dupuis.

Honestly, if Fedotenko is still on the team on March 4, it sends the wrong message. You have to earn your playoff ice time. Just like Sykora and Dupuis last spring, who both didn't play nearly as much as they would have wanted. They didn't earn it.
I agree.

IMO Dupuis has been earning his salary, and you can argue he's been our most consistent winger this season in terms of all around play. Only Guerin has more points among Pens wingers, but Dupuis is a regular PKer and is much better than Guerin without the puck.

As far as Feds, there is no doubt he'll be waived if that it what is required to improve this team before the deadline (in terms of giving us more cap space to add talent in a trade).

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02-13-2010, 10:23 PM
  #30
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To be frank, unless we get a really sweet deal, Dupuis needs to stay, atleast as a bottom 6.

He's excellent defensively, is quick, and can really bring some energy to the game. He's great on the PK. He's producing very well considering that he is severely outmatched. and really comes to play every game.

He's just the victim of circumstances.

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02-14-2010, 01:06 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by nTsplnk View Post
To be frank, unless we get a really sweet deal, Dupuis needs to stay, atleast as a bottom 6.

He's excellent defensively, is quick, and can really bring some energy to the game. He's great on the PK. He's producing very well considering that he is severely outmatched. and really comes to play every game.

He's just the victim of circumstances.
Ultimately, Dupuis is not a major concern either way. If there is interest in him on the back of the strong season he is having, then he can help bring back an asset we need more, either in a trade, or with the pick we can get for him.
If there's no such interest, he can be kept and all is well and good, but it remains that he does NOTHING for Malkin's line and doesn't get his goals with Sid either. He's excellent on the bottom six, but the third line is set (or should be) and the fourth line.... well... we currently have Adams and Rupp there, Talbot will be coming back, there's less of a need for depth there if we want to rotate the top3 centermen on the 4th again this year, and we have some rookies who have not disgraced themselves at all.

Considering that we have very little in the way of tradeable assets, I'd say Dupuis is shaping up to be such with the season he is having. There's likely no better time to get a return on him, and unlike Fedotenko (who deserves scratching or waiving I agree), Dupuis has no history of having ANY kind of harmonious relation with any top6 combination that isn't Sid and Hossa... and you have to be a peculiar winger to not have a chemistry with those two.

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02-14-2010, 08:27 AM
  #32
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He's a marginal player that exceeded expectations, and consistently earns himself an NHL contract by bringing his game to another level in the playoffs.
I'm telling ya... he's the Mark Lemke of hockey. Also I think he makes Qdoba runs after every practice for the coach to stay in his good graces.

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02-15-2010, 12:38 AM
  #33
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http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10046/1035991-61.stm

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How their only true winger with more than 13 goals is a 39-year-old, and how another, Ruslan Fedotenko, is now laboring on the No. 4 line only because there isn't a fifth.
Molinari is apparently of tired of watching Feds suck this season.

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02-15-2010, 12:54 AM
  #34
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I hate Feds and Guerin as much as anyone, but the old adage still holds true... When you spend so much money on Sid, Geno, Staal, Orpik and Fleury, you are left with precious little to fill the holes. This team will live and die by the production of those 5 players, the rest are just filler who will contribute here and there but won't ever be on the level of importance to this team that the big 5 are.

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02-15-2010, 06:32 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by The Mighty Boosh View Post
I hate Feds and Guerin as much as anyone, but the old adage still holds true... When you spend so much money on Sid, Geno, Staal, Gonchar and Fleury, you are left with precious little to fill the holes. This team will live and die by the production of those 5 players, the rest are just filler who will contribute here and there but won't ever be on the level of importance to this team that the big 5 are.
Fixed

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02-15-2010, 07:35 AM
  #36
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This is one player I might agree that a young player could do a better job then.
The few things I think Caputi and Johnson werent very good at yet(Johnson mostly) were puck battles, getting on guys while they have a chance and fighting for the puck.
And thats one thing that Feds doesnt seem to do either.
He never has the puck long, rarely skates with it for longer than a second, when he goes behind the net and a dman has it he looks like hes trying to squeeze between him and the wall. Like "excuse me sir id like to have that".

Lately Ive seen him hitting, but he better start hitting ALOT if thats supposed to make up for other things.

Anyone notice he seemed to be permanently on the 4th line?
I wouldnt mind having him Talbot and Dupuis/Rupp/Adams on the 4th for the playoffs.
Have two guys that are supposed to be clutch in the playoffs on the 4th, maybe they step it up, maybe they dont, so long as thier defensively responsible then okay.

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02-15-2010, 10:31 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by regard View Post
This is one player I might agree that a young player could do a better job then.
Honestly I think I'm starting to agree. We've seen that we have a bunch of guys in Wilkes-Barre that, while they're not perfect, have shown they can play at this level. Since there's a bunch of them, as soon as one shows signs of not giving 100% to keep their job, we can send them down and bring up the next guy. It'll get those guys another taste of the NHL which should help their development, and it should be a marked improvement over Feds in the effort department no matter who it is that's up with the team.

Trade Feds for whatever we can get, and then call up Caputi. Next in the rotation is Johnson, then Letestu, then Conner. Those four can all do the job. That'll free up a little cap room for whatever rental we go and get - Whitney, Poni, or Tkachuk. And then, the 4th line can be a rotation of Dupuis, Rupp, Talbot and Adams, which is fine by me. Feds isn't really suited to a 4th line energy role the way he's been this year. He seems to lack any sort of drive as compared to last year. If he's not getting it done on the 2nd, and he's not playing the way Bylsma liked him to last year, there's no room for him on this team.

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02-15-2010, 11:41 AM
  #38
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If we do end up waiving Feds or trading him as a throw-in or for a 6th round draft pick, he certainly can't say he didn't get every opportunity to snap out of this streak.

Even yesterday, while Fedotenko started on the fourth line he did receive some shifts with Crosby-Malkin, replaced Dupuis with Staal and Malkin a couple of times late & also was on the second PP unit.

So really, he has no one to blame but himself if that in fact was his last game as a Pen.

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02-15-2010, 12:12 PM
  #39
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I hate when people say we can't be getting rid of veterans who take less to play here. It is a privilege to play in the NHL not a right and if you're not getting it done you have no one to blame but yourself.

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02-15-2010, 12:27 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by jdpitt05 View Post
I hate when people say we can't be getting rid of veterans who take less to play here. It is a privilege to play in the NHL not a right and if you're not getting it done you have no one to blame but yourself.
Agreed.
If a future player tried to use that against Shero and were to say "but even if I take a paycut I could be traded/waived like Fedentenko was."
Shero would have to counter with "If you give as little effort as Ruslan did for 60+ games then yes you can expect that."

I dont know that negotiations are that open but you get what Im trying to say, just because you take a paycut doesnt leave you immune from criticism and moves.
Cheechoo was just waived because hes not worth 3 million, he was traded for that reason, but once upon a time 3 million was probably considered cheap for a guy who scored 50+ goals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87
If we do end up waiving Feds or trading him as a throw-in or for a 6th round draft pick, he certainly can't say he didn't get every opportunity to snap out of this streak.

Even yesterday, while Fedotenko started on the fourth line he did receive some shifts with Crosby-Malkin, replaced Dupuis with Staal and Malkin a couple of times late & also was on the second PP unit.

So really, he has no one to blame but himself if that in fact was his last game as a Pen.
I still cant believe TK never even gets a shot on the second PP unit when Feds is always there.

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02-15-2010, 02:05 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by jdpitt05 View Post
I hate when people say we can't be getting rid of veterans who take less to play here. It is a privilege to play in the NHL not a right and if you're not getting it done you have no one to blame but yourself.
It's not about rights and privileges. The point is that no veteran is going to WANT to come here if they see that veterans, even ones that took a discount, get traded or waived.

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02-15-2010, 02:15 PM
  #42
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It's not about rights and privileges. The point is that no veteran is going to WANT to come here if they see that veterans, even ones that took a discount, get traded or waived.
If the veteran FA has half a brain, he will understand that someone like Fedotenko was playing like garbage all year and that's the reason why he was let go. Taking a discount shouldn't equal a guaranteed roster spot all season long. Players are smart enough to discern between our front office just letting go of all our free agents vs players being waived/traded because they weren't play well enough. Fedotenko isn't even playing up to his "discounted" salary of 1.8m.

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02-15-2010, 02:18 PM
  #43
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We're more likely to see Fedotenko waived until the post-season than traded, ala Satan. Guerin's going nowhere.

People have very unrealistic expectations about what moves other GMs would be willing to make. They're not all idiots like the Trade Board, you know.

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02-15-2010, 02:18 PM
  #44
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I cant imagine players think that by taking a discount they can play however they want, thier still professionals that know they need to try to earn thier contract.

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02-15-2010, 02:22 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by regard View Post
I cant imagine players think that by taking a discount they can play however they want, thier still professionals that know they need to try to earn thier contract.
On the other hand, players really don't like GM's trying to sandbag them like the Habs did to Laraque.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think news of that kind of thing spreads. Players don't necessarily like management any more than anyone here likes their boss or teachers. And GMs get reps around the league just like players do.

I know playing nice doesn't jive with the fans, but so what? Trying to run Guerin or Fedotenko out of town on a rail at this point isn't going to save us much. And the word-of-mouth phenomenon with FA's is well documented.

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02-15-2010, 02:26 PM
  #46
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On the other hand, players really don't like GM's trying to sandbag them like the Habs did to Laraque.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think news of that kind of thing spreads. Players don't necessarily like management any more than anyone here likes their boss or teachers. And GMs get reps around the league just like players do.

I know playing nice doesn't jive with the fans, but so what? Trying to run Guerin or Fedotenko out of town on a rail at this point isn't going to save us much. And the word-of-mouth phenomenon with FA's is well documented.

HUGE difference between the Fedotenko situation and the Laraque situation. Habs GAVE Laraque a NMC, then decided they were better off with him sitting at home. We were smart enough to not give THAT deal to Laraque, or anything of that kind to Feds.

Feds signed a one-year deal. There are no guarantees in that. He's not doing himself any favors by playing so poorly, but ultimately we're going for a repeat. If you're not good enough, you're gone. The Habs have completely lost their way in terms of building a winner. Completely different animal, imo.

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02-15-2010, 02:29 PM
  #47
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On the other hand, players really don't like GM's trying to sandbag them like the Habs did to Laraque.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think news of that kind of thing spreads. Players don't necessarily like management any more than anyone here likes their boss or teachers. And GMs get reps around the league just like players do.

I know playing nice doesn't jive with the fans, but so what? Trying to run Guerin or Fedotenko out of town on a rail at this point isn't going to save us much. And the word-of-mouth phenomenon with FA's is well documented.
Makes sense, not disagreeing with you.
I wont be too dissapointed if we dont do much at the deadline and if we dont want to get rid of either of them then I dont see us adding much as far as forwards.
I still like the idea of getting Tkachuk for the versatility.

Or another thing Id still like to see is for us to pick up a Mueller type of player, someone who hasnt had the best season or isnt too liked by his coach (Lisin?).
That way the player has a chance to turn around, shouldnt cost us much.
But if we dont do spectacular in the playoffs I wouldnt say it was because of that player and it could improve the winger situation in the next few seasons.

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02-15-2010, 02:34 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
HUGE difference between the Fedotenko situation and the Laraque situation. Habs GAVE Laraque a NMC, then decided they were better off with him sitting at home. We were smart enough to not give THAT deal to Laraque, or anything of that kind to Feds.

Feds signed a one-year deal. There are no guarantees in that. He's not doing himself any favors by playing so poorly, but ultimately we're going for a repeat. If you're not good enough, you're gone. The Habs have completely lost their way in terms of building a winner. Completely different animal, imo.
No, but trying to trade a player with no value instead of hiding him in the minors seems pointless to me and just designed to burn bridges.

Fedotenko signed for below market value because he felt he could contribute. Obviously, he's not. But who's gonna take him outside of a bottom feeder who needs a body to get up to the cap floor? That's not going to get us much in return, and it's going to set bad precident for sweetheart deals. Plus, more bodies who have been to the playoffs are always welcome in the post season when the cap and roster limit don't matter.

The diplomatic solution is to hide him in the minors, ala Satan, for cap space and to do it during a time when nobody will try to snatch him. Fans want to see action because they don't have to try to sign UFAs and deal with players' agents.

But, if you recall, most of our UFA signings have come here prefacing their decision with a lot of talk about how they have heard from other players how well the organization treats their players. It's worth it to keep that rep, IMO, if for nothing more than it makes it more likely for us to grab and keep someone like Cooke or Orpik who took paycuts to play here.

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02-15-2010, 04:17 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
No, but trying to trade a player with no value instead of hiding him in the minors seems pointless to me and just designed to burn bridges.

Fedotenko signed for below market value because he felt he could contribute. Obviously, he's not. But who's gonna take him outside of a bottom feeder who needs a body to get up to the cap floor? That's not going to get us much in return, and it's going to set bad precident for sweetheart deals. Plus, more bodies who have been to the playoffs are always welcome in the post season when the cap and roster limit don't matter.

The diplomatic solution is to hide him in the minors, ala Satan, for cap space and to do it during a time when nobody will try to snatch him. Fans want to see action because they don't have to try to sign UFAs and deal with players' agents.

But, if you recall, most of our UFA signings have come here prefacing their decision with a lot of talk about how they have heard from other players how well the organization treats their players. It's worth it to keep that rep, IMO, if for nothing more than it makes it more likely for us to grab and keep someone like Cooke or Orpik who took paycuts to play here.
I don't know. How many teams are actually completely out of it? 3 maybe? So, I don't think Fedotenko would prefer to play in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton than the NHL. And I don't know how a player who wants to come here should hold it against us if we have to move Fedotenko's $1.8 million cap hit off the books. This is what happens in a salary-cap world. You do whatever is necessary to stay under the cap and continue to build your team for a shot at the Cup.

If there are players who would seriously not want to come play here because of how we have treated guys like Satan and Fedotenko, then who cares about them anyway? We want guys who wanna be here, not just ride on the bandwagon on their terms. If you commit to sign with the Pens, you're committing to playing at a winning level. And you know that changes will be made if that level isn't reached.

I really don't see how we can do anything but rid ourselves of Fedotenko. We have given him EVERY chance to succeed. Yeah, he took a paycut. The problem is he hasn't even lived up to a $1.8 million ticket. So, I think this is a non-issue in the end.

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02-15-2010, 04:41 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
The diplomatic solution is to hide him in the minors, ala Satan, for cap space and to do it during a time when nobody will try to snatch him. Fans want to see action because they don't have to try to sign UFAs and deal with players' agents.
Is that the most diplomatic/goodwill type move you can make, though? I mean, isn't that even more embarrassing for an NHL veteran, to be sent to the minors, rather than just traded to another NHL team that will use them on the main roster?

Doesn't this send a similar message (if we're worried about potential future FAs not wanting to sign in Pittsburgh) that the club won't hesitate to send you to the minors if you don't produce?

I dunno. I mean, I'm not saying it's a bad move from the team's perspective. But looking at it from the player's point of view, isn't a demotion to the minors just as much, if not more so, an insult than being traded to clear cap space?

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