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The Entitlement Issue: Andrew Cogliano

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Old
02-14-2010, 12:32 AM
  #51
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Time to clean house with some of the young talent?

BTW thats a good interview from Marchant but i always got the feeling he didn't like being in edmonton.

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Old
02-14-2010, 12:39 AM
  #52
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If they want Todd Marchant, god damn trade for the guy.

Why does this team insist on trying to jam square pegs in round holes? I'd sooner see Colgiano traded (and I'd really hate to see that) than see him stuck playing a checking role for the rest of his years. Checking line players are a dime a dozen nowadays in this league (except the ones we have).

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02-14-2010, 12:52 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUAIOMRN View Post
False sense of entitlement? Thinking you can be good enough to play on the top lines is different is different than thinking you deserve to.
Yeah, that's what I took from this article. It sounds like he has confidence that he has the ability to be a top 6 guy, and probably be one for a while. I didn't get the sense he was saying that he deserves to be in that role for now and for always. He's just hoping and aiming high, which is healthy.

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02-14-2010, 12:55 AM
  #54
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But any young player should be trying to get better in all aspects of the game.........Cogs will never be a point a game guy so he better well learn a two way game

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02-14-2010, 01:30 AM
  #55
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What Cogliano said:

"I've always put up numbers. And if I hadn't put up any in my first year, then maybe I'd be really worried. Maybe I'd switch my game ... for me, it's a matter of sticking with the mindset I can be a top-six player."

What if Cogliano said:

"I scored well in my first year & second year but now I'm having problems. So I'm going to switch my game ... I will never be a top-six player."



Would that make the whiners on this Board happy? I don't think so - I suspect they just switch gears & call Cogliano a quitter.............

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02-14-2010, 01:36 AM
  #56
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Personally, I agree with Lowetide:

http://lowetide.blogspot.com/2010/02/stubborn-much.html

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Old
02-14-2010, 01:47 AM
  #57
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And I'm curious why some are pointing out Cogliano's bad attitude & entitlement when the article clearly stated:

Oilers coaches haven't come to the former first-round pick to have a heart-to-heart talk about changing his game

haven't = have not

Oilers coaches have not talked to Cogliano about changing his game.......

Where is this "bad attitude" & entitlement garbage coming from.........

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Old
02-14-2010, 01:51 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real_Estate-Agent View Post
And I'm curious why some are pointing out Cogliano's bad attitude & entitlement when the article clearly stated:

Oilers coaches haven't come to the former first-round pick to have a heart-to-heart talk about changing his game

haven't = have not

Oilers coaches have not talked to Cogliano about changing his game.......

Where is this "bad attitude" & entitlement garbage coming from.........
One part bias, two parts over-active imagination.

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Old
02-14-2010, 01:58 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
When I think of entitlement and the Oilers, Cogliano's name is way down the list. The guy has played with donkeys for two years now. No complaining as far as I know. The guy is young and putting in his time on the scrub lines while he waits for his chance at the top two lines.

Just because a reporter tries to stereotype him as a career plugger doesnt mean he should have to agree with a stupid assessment of him.
This is very well said. One thing I've always loved about Cogliano is the way he seems to handle himself (at least through the media). Perhaps this is just his media persona, but he's always been a guy that has the attitude of Gagner - wanting to improve each time he's on the ice. He, as well as anyone, knows his game isn't where it needs to be for the team and him personally to be successful. The real question is can be he be a proper student and identify his areas of weakness in order to improve. I don't believe the quotes he provided in this article say he isn't willing to work on his deficiencies - instead it asks him if he needs to overhaul his entire game.

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Old
02-14-2010, 02:00 AM
  #60
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Reading the comments on Lowetide's blog, a couple people brought up Cogliano's insistence on playing center because he was uncomfortable with the wing position. Perhaps its not a sense of entitlement but his refusal to expand beyond his comfort level that his really holding him back. Does anyone remember that offensive zone FO last season where Cogliano got kicked out of the circle and because he was uncomfortable playing the RW, Moreau had to take the draw over Pouliot who is a much better FO option.

Has Cogliano's game really developed that much since he broke into the league?

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02-14-2010, 02:12 AM
  #61
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Hearing these Penner to Ottawa rumors... what would we be looking for if we packed Penner and Cogs up and shipped them over there?

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Old
02-14-2010, 02:19 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matador View Post
Reading the comments on Lowetide's blog, a couple people brought up Cogliano's insistence on playing center because he was uncomfortable with the wing position. Perhaps its not a sense of entitlement but his refusal to expand beyond his comfort level that his really holding him back. Does anyone remember that offensive zone FO last season where Cogliano got kicked out of the circle and because he was uncomfortable playing the RW, Moreau had to take the draw over Pouliot who is a much better FO option.

Has Cogliano's game really developed that much since he broke into the league?
Lowetide says? Who the **** cares? They also say over there that Horcoff is a number one center that plays the toughs and outscores the other team's top opposition blah blah blah and then openly mock those that dont buy into the caramilk secret numbers they use to draw those conclusions with.

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Old
02-14-2010, 02:29 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Lowetide says? Who the **** cares? They also say over there that Horcoff is a number one center that plays the toughs and outscores the other team's top opposition blah blah blah and then openly mock those that dont buy into the caramilk secret numbers they use to draw those conclusions with.
Way to generalize everyone in the comments on Lowetides blog as pro-Horcoff. Horcoff actually gets his fair share of abuse over there. There is some good discussion relating to Cogliano following the post that should be included in this thread, regardless of whether you agree with Lowetide's assessment of certain players or not.

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02-14-2010, 02:40 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matador View Post
Way to generalize everyone in the comments on Lowetides blog as pro-Horcoff. Horcoff actually gets his fair share of abuse over there. There is some good discussion relating to Cogliano following the post that should be included in this thread, regardless of whether you agree with Lowetide's assessment of certain players or not.
Got any links to the blather blah about Cogliano insisting on playing center? Or should we just take some unidentified internet persona's word for it? The crew over there are notorious Horcoff boosters, some of them post here as well. There is very little opposition to said topic over there. The only guy I know who questions it is Traktor and I have seen him get told to hush up or hit the bricks in a manner of speaking.

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Old
02-14-2010, 02:53 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post

The crew over there are notorious Horcoff boosters, some of them post here as well. There is very little opposition to said topic over there. The only guy I know who questions it is Traktor and I have seen him get told to hush up or hit the bricks in a manner of speaking.
I post there - but not on Horcoff....

I have gone "against the grain" on some topics & have always been treated with respect - just for the record....

Anyways, back to exposing the Cogliano bashers (with unfounded justification) on this thread........

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Old
02-14-2010, 03:09 AM
  #66
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No matter how you break it up Cogliano is the fastest skater in the NHL (lol at least according to the allstar game) and our team has historically found success in speed.

I would think that he would be one hell of a player with some faster linemate by his side. Too many times has he had to put on the breaks in order to wait for his teammates to catch up. With Paarjavai and hall coming up you would think this team is going to be built on speed.

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Old
02-14-2010, 05:25 AM
  #67
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I like Cogs but ever since liast summer he has shown us he is expendable. I believe at some point leading up to and including the draft he will be traded for some size. He's a small player and we have too many of them. All the speed in the world doesnt get around the issue that we have too many small players.

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02-14-2010, 05:33 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Hearing these Penner to Ottawa rumors... what would we be looking for if we packed Penner and Cogs up and shipped them over there?
Heatley?

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Old
02-14-2010, 08:08 AM
  #69
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Lowetide says? Who the **** cares?
Agreed.

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Old
02-14-2010, 08:58 AM
  #70
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Also, O'Sullivan has been getting the better linemates all season and has done nothing with it, yet he gets the free pass somehow.
yeah. Shawn Horcoff and JF Jacques are "better linemates". That's good stuff right there, dude.

As for Cogliano, I don't read any "entitlement issue" in anything he said. Sounds like a guy who both desires and believes he can be a better offensive player. How is that a problem?

He has been stymied this season by playing with plugs. But, I think you can say that about a lot of the guys. There's just not enough NHL talent to go around on this team.

I don't remember which game it was now, but for one game Quinn actually sent out the line of O'Sullivan-Cogliano-Brule. I thought they were a lot of fun to watch and could have outskated almost anyone. Opened up a lot of ice with their speed and it resulted in a lot of quality chances. I'm sure Cogliano would benefit from better linemates on a regular basis, who wouldn't? For some reason Quinn didn't want to go there again though. [yet another curious move by the coach]...anyway,, I don't know why anyone is really bagging on Cogliano here, there are plenty of other players who aren't living up to their potential right now - not sure why anyone would single him out.


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Old
02-14-2010, 09:41 AM
  #71
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Funny how a guy playing with Moreau and another plug (Pisani for part of the year) for much of the season would struggle. I mean, hell, who the hell couldn't thrive on a line with Moreau?! Absolutely shocking.

I love how a year ago this kid was untouchable, and now after getting stuck in the bottom six almost the whole season (he did have a brief stint in the top six) and thrown into a new role, its a huge surprise to people that his offensive production has dropped.

I actually don't blame Cogliano if he'd rather take on an offensive role. That's his skill set. Also, O'Sullivan has been getting the better linemates all season and has done nothing with it, yet he gets the free pass somehow. I think Cogliano gets the bum rap here simply just because we have too many small skill guys on the team already.

It's disappointing to me though that he's going to continue to be misused here.
That's right my freind, not only better linemates, but he's constantly sees PP Time and does ****all with it. IMO, If their roles were reversed, I'm pretty sure Cogliano would have more than 10 goals and be nowhere near -29

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:04 AM
  #72
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That's right my freind, not only better linemates, but he's constantly sees PP Time and does ****all with it. IMO, If their roles were reversed, I'm pretty sure Cogliano would have more than 10 goals and be nowhere near -29
Well make no mention of one player having 30pts and the other 13. Not to mention Sully has had bad scoring luck having hit the post around 10 times this year. Plus how many times do you see Sully take a good shot that the goalie has to make a good save on? How often do you see this with Cogliano this year?

Coglianos +/- is largely a function of seeing some of the easiest minutes on this team and playing with D pairs that aren't drowning. Plus having other players chip in when he's on the ice.

Cogs right now has just about the lowest production on the team at .83pts/60mins 5 on 5. All the forwards who are being accused of dragging him down have higher rates or production. Also of interest is if he's playing with such scrubs why is the GF/ON/60mins 1.91. This means that goals are being scored with Cogs on the ice but with him not involved in the play. Again consider that with his 13 pts. It suggests that linemates are finding a way to produce something even while dragging Cogliano around. Not the other way around.
Also the Oiler production ramps up to 2.20GF/Off/60mins with Cogs on the bench.

Conversely you want some real deadweights? Try some of Sully's anchors he's been carrying around. Despite being a decent passer and having setup several nice goals(including one of Coglianos) Sully doesn't get much help in production when he's on the ice.
He's directly involved in virtually every point when he's on the ice. His +/- is as low as it is because the players on the ice are not producing anything independent of Sully. Much different situation than with Cogliano. Sully has a very high .78 coefficient of being involved in the pt production when he's on the ice, i.e. moving it, while Cogs is an inconsequential .43. Again think about a forward managing to have a pts coefficient lower than 50% for pts scored while he's on the ice. Its almost hard to manage that given that the average goal results in about 2.5pts awarded.

The numbers indicate that EV the guy playing with the worse non productive scrubs is Sully.


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Old
02-14-2010, 10:28 AM
  #73
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That's right my freind, not only better linemates, but he's constantly sees PP Time and does ****all with it.
Really? He's 4th on the team in power play points and 9th on the team in power play ice time. I guess if that's doing "****all with it", then yeah ok...i see your point

Visnovsky PPP 17 , PP TOI/G 3:18
Penner PPP 15, PP TOI/G 3:15
Gagner PPP 14, PP TOI/G 2:44
O'Sullivan PPP 11, PP TOI/G 2:41

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:45 AM
  #74
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Cogliano is failing all on his own.

A guy with his speed one would think would get the occasional scoring chances. His reads, decisions, hands, and propensity to go wide always is himself making himself ineffective.
18 goals his 1st two seasons on the 3rd line suggests he can be productive. He's bad this year no doubt about it but if we get rid of him now it would be the all time prize winner for selling low. The guy is 22 years old only -6 on a horrendous hockey team. Entitlement would suggest that the guy has been playing on the top two lines and thinks he belongs there no matter what. He has almost never played top two lines in his career.

If the Oilers feel the flaws in his game are not to their liking and don't fit into the long range plan. (ha ha ha) then I'm find with a trade as long as we get value but it's amazing that so many people want to kick this guy to the curb when he is about 15th on my list of oilers I'd rather see gone.

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02-14-2010, 11:37 AM
  #75
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Cogliano is failing all on his own.

A guy with his speed one would think would get the occasional scoring chances. His reads, decisions, hands, and propensity to go wide always is himself making himself ineffective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
18 goals his 1st two seasons on the 3rd line suggests he can be productive. He's bad this year no doubt about it but if we get rid of him now it would be the all time prize winner for selling low. The guy is 22 years old only -6 on a horrendous hockey team. Entitlement would suggest that the guy has been playing on the top two lines and thinks he belongs there no matter what. He has almost never played top two lines in his career.

If the Oilers feel the flaws in his game are not to their liking and don't fit into the long range plan. (ha ha ha) then I'm find with a trade as long as we get value but it's amazing that so many people want to kick this guy to the curb when he is about 15th on my list of oilers I'd rather see gone.
I don't think a lot of us is saying Cogs has reached the ceiling of his potential and be a career 3rd 4th line guy, it's just his performance reflected that his development has stalled this yr. Some of us made points about the reason, some is trying to defend Cogs. However the fact is that he didn't develop as well as Gagne has THIS SEASON.

I am not saying Cogs has Martin St Louis potential (i got to throw this disclaimer out first because on this board you can make 10 good pts in a post and if i thing you are not stating clear enough, people would just use that one little thing to flame you), but comparing Cogs because of same size & speed, St. Louis got traded by Calgary to Tampa after 2 yrs and it took him the 3rd yr in Tampa to break out.

Just saying that if Cogs develops a better attitude after this tough year(compare against Gagne's performance on the 4th line & his will to work his way up from the bottom line), become more coachable, he is still young and has another 2 to 3 yrs to break out. By the time he is in the league for more than 5 or 6 yrs, the chance of a break out get slimmer.

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