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The Entitlement Issue: Andrew Cogliano

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Old
02-14-2010, 01:35 PM
  #76
Copperhead
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I think some people forget that Cogliano is only 22 years old and in his third year of professional hockey. How good was Hemsky in his first couple of years in the league?

No question that Cogliano is struggling this year, but given the state of the team overall I think it would be pretty rash to use that as a measure for future success.

I would also like to point out that Cogs is only -6 this year (despite his poor offensive production). Worse than him are: Comrie, Pisani, Jacques, Horcoff, O'Sullivan, Moreau, Potulny and Gagner.

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02-14-2010, 01:48 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Copperhead View Post
I think some people forget that Cogliano is only 22 years old and in his third year of professional hockey. How good was Hemsky in his first couple of years in the league?

No question that Cogliano is struggling this year, but given the state of the team overall I think it would be pretty rash to use that as a measure for future success.

I would also like to point out that Cogs is only -6 this year (despite his poor offensive production). Worse than him are: Comrie, Pisani, Jacques, Horcoff, O'Sullivan, Moreau, Potulny and Gagner.
I don't think that anyone is writing him off as a NHL player but considering that Brule will likely be better as will Gagner and possibly Eberle people are worried about the size of our team down the road. That is why IMO if we can land a similarly skilled guy who is also having a tough go of it and he's bigger, you jump on it. If we could somehow pry Berglund out of St. Louis for Cogs + IMO you have to take it. You don't go trading him for table scraps though, that is for sure. At worst he's a NHL roster spot filler for us for relatively cheap next season.

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02-14-2010, 02:06 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I don't think that anyone is writing him off as a NHL player but considering that Brule will likely be better as will Gagner and possibly Eberle people are worried about the size of our team down the road. That is why IMO if we can land a similarly skilled guy who is also having a tough go of it and he's bigger, you jump on it. If we could somehow pry Berglund out of St. Louis for Cogs + IMO you have to take it. You don't go trading him for table scraps though, that is for sure. At worst he's a NHL roster spot filler for us for relatively cheap next season.
Oh I have no problem trading him for something of value (such as Berglund). But that has more to do with the duplication of his size on this team than an evaluation of his talent.

I just think that in his first two years Cogs showed he had the talent to play a secondary scoring role. That he wants to be that guy is no surprise. The responses he gave in the article TO ME sound more like a young player defending his ability to produce offensively than someone saying he doesn't want to be defensively responsible. Frankly if anything this will teach Cogs to give better answers to the media.

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02-14-2010, 03:47 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Well make no mention of one player having 30pts and the other 13. Not to mention Sully has had bad scoring luck having hit the post around 10 times this year. Plus how many times do you see Sully take a good shot that the goalie has to make a good save on? How often do you see this with Cogliano this year?

Coglianos +/- is largely a function of seeing some of the easiest minutes on this team and playing with D pairs that aren't drowning. Plus having other players chip in when he's on the ice.

Cogs right now has just about the lowest production on the team at .83pts/60mins 5 on 5. All the forwards who are being accused of dragging him down have higher rates or production. Also of interest is if he's playing with such scrubs why is the GF/ON/60mins 1.91. This means that goals are being scored with Cogs on the ice but with him not involved in the play. Again consider that with his 13 pts. It suggests that linemates are finding a way to produce something even while dragging Cogliano around. Not the other way around.
Also the Oiler production ramps up to 2.20GF/Off/60mins with Cogs on the bench.

Conversely you want some real deadweights? Try some of Sully's anchors he's been carrying around. Despite being a decent passer and having setup several nice goals(including one of Coglianos) Sully doesn't get much help in production when he's on the ice.
He's directly involved in virtually every point when he's on the ice. His +/- is as low as it is because the players on the ice are not producing anything independent of Sully. Much different situation than with Cogliano. Sully has a very high .78 coefficient of being involved in the pt production when he's on the ice, i.e. moving it, while Cogs is an inconsequential .43. Again think about a forward managing to have a pts coefficient lower than 50% for pts scored while he's on the ice. Its almost hard to manage that given that the average goal results in about 2.5pts awarded.

The numbers indicate that EV the guy playing with the worse non productive scrubs is Sully.
Thanks for the summary Replacement, but I ain't buying, not even for half price. I respect the fact that you have a liking for POS, and I'm sure Mr. Quinn does also. Reminds me of exactly the Mactavish vs Penner scenario. We all know how that worked out and Quinn is doing the exact same thing with POS, until he'll break.

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02-14-2010, 04:01 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Tommy35 View Post
Thanks for the summary Replacement, but I ain't buying, not even for half price. I respect the fact that you have a liking for POS, and I'm sure Mr. Quinn does also. Reminds me of exactly the Mactavish vs Penner scenario. We all know how that worked out and Quinn is doing the exact same thing with POS, until he'll break.
They are definitely having a hell of a stand-off. Hard to say which stubborn Irishman will come out the victor.

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02-14-2010, 04:16 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Copperhead View Post
I think some people forget that Cogliano is only 22 years old and in his third year of professional hockey. How good was Hemsky in his first couple of years in the league?

No question that Cogliano is struggling this year, but given the state of the team overall I think it would be pretty rash to use that as a measure for future success.

I would also like to point out that Cogs is only -6 this year (despite his poor offensive production). Worse than him are: Comrie, Pisani, Jacques, Horcoff, O'Sullivan, Moreau, Potulny and Gagner.
He also had 18 goals the two previous seasons, in spite of his tremendous struggles this year. He hasn't whined much to the media about things in spite of the 4th line minutes and he works hard. Given his age and his NHL pedigree thus far, I'd certainly like to see him get at least another season -- but I understand the redundancy issue, in terms of the duplication in skillset and size throughout the lineup with various players (POS, Cogliano, Gagner, Comrie, Brule, Nilsson).

Ideally, you keep 3 of those and cut ties with the rest. For me, I'd prefer to cut bait on POS, Comrie, and Nilsson. We'll lose Comrie to FA unless they choose to resign, POS might have a little value and Nilsson is probably only worth a low round pick.

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02-14-2010, 04:21 PM
  #82
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So, how many smurfs do you guys want to keep on the roster?

Do people not understand the simple fact that Gagner already is a better player then Cogliano, with higher upside?

Eberle
Cogliano
Gagner
O Sullivan
Nilsson
Brule

At least 3 from that group have to go. Why oh why, do fans want to keep Cogs around when he is a good piece of trade bait. You can't have all these tiny "top 6" forwards on the team, they have to strategically rebuild both the top and bottom 6. Cogliano is expendable at this point whether fans like to admit it or not, it makes absolutely no sense to keep him around.

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02-14-2010, 04:30 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
So, how many smurfs do you guys want to keep on the roster?

Do people not understand the simple fact that Gagner already is a better player then Cogliano, with higher upside?

Eberle
Cogliano
Gagner
O Sullivan
Nilsson
Brule

At least 3 from that group have to go. Why oh why, do fans want to keep Cogs around when he is a good piece of trade bait. You can't have all these tiny "top 6" forwards on the team, they have to strategically rebuild both the top and bottom 6. Cogliano is clearly a guy on the outs, it makes absolutely no sense to keep this guy around.
Well, for me I don't necessarily see the need to have Cogliano in the top 6 core. He scored his 18 goals back to back mostly playing with the 3rd line, right? Eberle, if he makes it, can slot into the top 6.

I also think you're confusing the issue a bit -- I don't see anyone in this thread stating that Cogliano should take precedence over Gagner in terms of minutes or role, nor is anyone saying Cogliano is better.

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02-14-2010, 04:45 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Shizuka View Post
Well, for me I don't necessarily see the need to have Cogliano in the top 6 core. He scored his 18 goals back to back mostly playing with the 3rd line, right? Eberle, if he makes it, can slot into the top 6.

I also think you're confusing the issue a bit -- I don't see anyone in this thread stating that Cogliano should take precedence over Gagner in terms of minutes or role, nor is anyone saying Cogliano is better.
But they both entered the league at the same time, and both were rushed. Gagner steadily improves while the other does not. If Cogliano is claiming he should be a top 6 forward, then his fate is sealed, because as good as he may be, as much potential he still may have, there are better prospects up front to fill those positions.

Keeping Cogs in the bottom 6 makes no sense considering he's pretty bad at faceoffs, is small and not overly physical i.e. he doesn't have a great set of intangibles to keep him afloat in this role, and not to mention the Oilers already have Brule, who I still think has potential to grow leaps and bounds over the next few years (as that 3rd line center, and he's much more versatile).

Although he hasn't actually proven to be a better goalscorer than Cogliano so far in his NHL career (although I think he will, shortly), I think he is already as good a player if not better, and will also be a better goalscorer. Also has a much better set of intangibles.

I liked Cogliano for a short while after coming out of his rookie season, but I'm totally underwhelmed by him this season and firmly believed he should and will be moved for pieces that will help the team much more down the line.

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02-14-2010, 04:56 PM
  #85
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I guess Cogliano is the new whipping boy, typical....
So because he's confident that he's better than he has shown this year and because he thinks that he's capable of being a top six player, that makes him arrogant and thinking that he's entitled to a bigger role? So what, he's confident.... is he supposed to be content that he's played with grinders for most of the year, is he not supposed to believe that he should be better than this? Come on, sense of entitlement? I think some of you are really grasping at straws, now i hope that he gets traded and lights it up with another team, just another young player that gets crapped on constantly by some people here.

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02-14-2010, 05:09 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
But they both entered the league at the same time, and both were rushed. Gagner steadily improves while the other does not. If Cogliano is claiming he should be a top 6 forward, then his fate is sealed, because as good as he may be, as much potential he still may have, there are better prospects up front to fill those positions.

Keeping Cogs in the bottom 6 makes no sense considering he's pretty bad at faceoffs, is small and not overly physical i.e. he doesn't have a great set of intangibles to keep him afloat in this role, and not to mention the Oilers already have Brule, who I still think has potential to grow leaps and bounds over the next few years (as that 3rd line center, and he's much more versatile).

Although he hasn't actually proven to be a better goalscorer than Cogliano so far in his NHL career (although I think he will, shortly), I think he is already as good a player if not better, and will also be a better goalscorer. Also has a much better set of intangibles.

I liked Cogliano for a short while after coming out of his rookie season, but I'm totally underwhelmed by him this season and firmly believed he should and will be moved for pieces that will help the team much more down the line.
You make some good points in the bolded part, but I would argue that Cogliano has picked up and added a much grittier dimension to his game. He finishes checks alot more and has gotten into the face of opposition players on a regular basis this season. Yeah, of course he won't be a noted finisher in bodychecks or goals, but his skillset is well suited to an aggressive style of game that personally I like seeing the Oilers play (hard on the forecheck and puck pursuit, very quick transition game). Besides which, he is one of the few players I have seen who very adamantly has stated he wants to be an Oiler, he likes it here.

I just do not see the need to get rid of a 22/23 year old just one season removed from two back to back 18 goal campaigns, who wants to stay and has made some adjustments to his game (yes he hasn't been scoring like we all would like to see, but I don't think expecting him to turn into a 25-30 goal scorer is realistic either). People clamour for the likes of Ryan Clowe, but if you actually look at it -- he scores between 15-20 goals a year. Alright, he's a big body but he hasn't translated into 25+ goal power forward as yet and he's 27.

Anyways, some good thoughts -- as usual, all our rumination and speculating may all come to nothing depending on what Tambellini does (or does not...) do come the trade deadline.

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02-14-2010, 05:30 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I guess Cogliano is the new whipping boy, typical....
So because he's confident that he's better than he has shown this year and because he thinks that he's capable of being a top six player, that makes him arrogant and thinking that he's entitled to a bigger role? So what, he's confident.... is he supposed to be content that he's played with grinders for most of the year, is he not supposed to believe that he should be better than this? Come on, sense of entitlement? I think some of you are really grasping at straws, now i hope that he gets traded and lights it up with another team, just another young player that gets crapped on constantly by some people here.
Just chill. I read all the posts on this thread and don't get the feeling peoples are making Cogs the whipping boy or try to crap on him. The points about the weakness in his game are quite fair imo.

Peoples are saying that he got superior speed and his potential has not been realized and his development seems to have stalled this year. He is just not progressing as well as Gagne & Brule, nor he has the credential of Eberle or MPS.

As for being confident, for sure he should not be content to be bottom 6. However when he got put in the bottom 6, and if he is so good, he should have performed extremely well like Gagne did, then the coaches cannot even afford to keep him there in the bottom 6. However he hasn't.

I hope as much as you do that Cogs can break out and become a Marty St. Louis (or close to) type of player.

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02-14-2010, 05:48 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I don't think that anyone is writing him off as a NHL player but considering that Brule will likely be better as will Gagner and possibly Eberle people are worried about the size of our team down the road. That is why IMO if we can land a similarly skilled guy who is also having a tough go of it and he's bigger, you jump on it. If we could somehow pry Berglund out of St. Louis for Cogs + IMO you have to take it. You don't go trading him for table scraps though, that is for sure. At worst he's a NHL roster spot filler for us for relatively cheap next season.
Brule? Though I like the player just what has Brule done to make you think he is a better overall prospect than Cogliano?

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02-14-2010, 05:52 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
So, how many smurfs do you guys want to keep on the roster?

Do people not understand the simple fact that Gagner already is a better player then Cogliano, with higher upside?

Eberle
Cogliano
Gagner
O Sullivan
Nilsson
Brule

At least 3 from that group have to go. Why oh why, do fans want to keep Cogs around when he is a good piece of trade bait. You can't have all these tiny "top 6" forwards on the team, they have to strategically rebuild both the top and bottom 6. Cogliano is expendable at this point whether fans like to admit it or not, it makes absolutely no sense to keep him around.
Eberele has never played a game in the league.
O-sullivan is a huge question mark who has a monumental minus mark this year.
Nilsson is crap.
Brule has never put together a full length quality year.

I have no problem with people talking bout dealing Cogliano as long as we get a really good return. The problem is that no one is talking about trading nilsson or osully because they are not as desirable as Cogliano around the league. Thus why is everyone and their dog wanting to push the guy out the door?

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02-14-2010, 05:55 PM
  #90
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Reading the comments on Lowetide's blog, a couple people brought up Cogliano's insistence on playing center because he was uncomfortable with the wing position. Perhaps its not a sense of entitlement but his refusal to expand beyond his comfort level that his really holding him back. Does anyone remember that offensive zone FO last season where Cogliano got kicked out of the circle and because he was uncomfortable playing the RW, Moreau had to take the draw over Pouliot who is a much better FO option.

Has Cogliano's game really developed that much since he broke into the league?
This is my take on the situation as well. Actions on the ice leave an impression that Cogs isn't interested in going outside his comfort zone. I do remember a time when there was talk of a Cogs-Horc-Hemmer first line, with Cogliano replying that he wasn't ready for #1 duty. (no, I'm not searching for the link )

He doesn't want to be Marchant, which is fine because the Oilers don't need a checking line centre that can't win a FO. What they could use is a lightning fast winger to cause havoc and score some goals on the chaos he helped create. I'd really like to see opposition d scramble when they see #13 coming down the boards with the puck or racing them into the corner on a dump in.

Those who don't go outside their comfort level are boring, slow to develop, and of limited usefulness. Sometimes they just need a shove. IMO he should be moved to LW for the rest of this rotten season. I am a Cogs fan and would really like to see him succeed, but have sink or swim trial. If he can't adapt to the wing, Tambo should have a #2 centre for sale because the Oil will have enough guys to fill that role next year.

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02-14-2010, 07:57 PM
  #91
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Just chill. I read all the posts on this thread and don't get the feeling peoples are making Cogs the whipping boy or try to crap on him. The points about the weakness in his game are quite fair imo.

Peoples are saying that he got superior speed and his potential has not been realized and his development seems to have stalled this year. He is just not progressing as well as Gagne & Brule, nor he has the credential of Eberle or MPS.

As for being confident, for sure he should not be content to be bottom 6. However when he got put in the bottom 6, and if he is so good, he should have performed extremely well like Gagne did, then the coaches cannot even afford to keep him there in the bottom 6. However he hasn't.

I hope as much as you do that Cogs can break out and become a Marty St. Louis (or close to) type of player.

Well the thread title says "The Entitlement Issue: Andrew Cogliano" which is pretty self explanatory and there's been some posts saying that he seems arrogant and that he thinks that he seems to think that he's better than he really is which is unfair considering that he's been demoted and stuck with pluggers for the most part and came off of 2 pretty good campaigns for such a young player.... I don't see a problem with the young man expecting better out of himself and being confident in his abilities to be better than he has been showing this year, he's frustrated along with many of this team's players. It's been a pattern with some Oiler fans to be extremely impatient with our young players (Gagner, O'Sullivan, Cogs, Penner, JDD etc. etc.) and it's a little frustrating to read things about this guy and that guy being a bust, it gets a little tiring..... I'm frustrated with the struggles of Cogs as much as the next guy and he most likely doesn't have a place on this team going forward but some people are really giving him a harder time than he deserves, i believe that there was a post earlier in this thread comparing his attitude to Schremp's which is unwarranted imo, against this is just my opinion.

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02-14-2010, 08:34 PM
  #92
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I'm not quite sure why people think Brule is in any way a better prospect than Cogliano. People use the argument that Cogliano only had some good seasons because, in his rookie season, other teams didn't shut his line down. Yet, those same people go one to say Brule is a better prospect because he is putting up numbers in his rookie season? Numbers that are actually inferior to what Cogliano put up in his rookie season?

Brule, in his rookie season, is on pace for 18g, 37 pts. Cogliano had a better rookie season in the NHL. Even if you add in the extra 12 games Brule has missed due to illness, he's only on pace for 43 points. That's roughly equal to Cogliano's rookie season.

Somehow, Cogliano's success the past 2 years is because of his sheltered minutes and lack of competition from the opposition, yet Brule, putting up similar (slightly worse) numbers under the same circumstances is the next big thing around here.

Last season, Cogliano had 1 more goal than Penner (equal assists) for a total of 38 points. Yet Penner had a full minute more ice time than Cogliano (that minute was gravy PP time, by the way.) Penner also saw plenty of ice time with Hemsky, our best offensive forward, where Cogliano spent all his time with Moreau and Stortini. Cogliano carried his line offensively last season, and put up better numbers than a lot of other 3rd liners in the entire league.

Cogliano was 11th in ice time among forwards last season, 9th in PP time on ice, and was playing with plugger linemates, yet was 4th in scoring among forwards on the team. He was 3 points behind Gagner, but with 2 more goals. I would argue he out-produced both Gagner and Penner last season, playing inferior minutes.

But, because Penner and Gagner bounced back this year, and Cogliano didn't, they are stars and Cogliano is a flop? It's knee jerk. If we are going into a rebuild, we shouldn't be trading away a young player who has proven he can produce on the third line. Everyone struggles at times, trading a 22 year old who is struggling, when we are entering a rebuild period, isn't the right play.

This is the same argument with Grebeshkov this season. In the past couple of years, he's had one of the best +/- on our team, and has been one of the better offensive producers on the team among defensemen as well, but a bad season (when our team is 30th overall) means he's garbage who should be traded.

We shouldn't be trading away any young players who have any sort of potential. We should be dumping salary, hitting the cap floor, so that we can resign our younger players, like Cogliano, and give him a few more years to develop before writing him off as nobodies.

-JH.

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02-14-2010, 08:53 PM
  #93
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I'm not quite sure why people think Brule is in any way a better prospect than Cogliano. People use the argument that Cogliano only had some good seasons because, in his rookie season, other teams didn't shut his line down. Yet, those same people go one to say Brule is a better prospect because he is putting up numbers in his rookie season? Numbers that are actually inferior to what Cogliano put up in his rookie season?

Brule, in his rookie season, is on pace for 18g, 37 pts. Cogliano had a better rookie season in the NHL. Even if you add in the extra 12 games Brule has missed due to illness, he's only on pace for 43 points. That's roughly equal to Cogliano's rookie season.

Somehow, Cogliano's success the past 2 years is because of his sheltered minutes and lack of competition from the opposition, yet Brule, putting up similar (slightly worse) numbers under the same circumstances is the next big thing around here.

Last season, Cogliano had 1 more goal than Penner (equal assists) for a total of 38 points. Yet Penner had a full minute more ice time than Cogliano (that minute was gravy PP time, by the way.) Penner also saw plenty of ice time with Hemsky, our best offensive forward, where Cogliano spent all his time with Moreau and Stortini. Cogliano carried his line offensively last season, and put up better numbers than a lot of other 3rd liners in the entire league.

Cogliano was 11th in ice time among forwards last season, 9th in PP time on ice, and was playing with plugger linemates, yet was 4th in scoring among forwards on the team. He was 3 points behind Gagner, but with 2 more goals. I would argue he out-produced both Gagner and Penner last season, playing inferior minutes.

But, because Penner and Gagner bounced back this year, and Cogliano didn't, they are stars and Cogliano is a flop? It's knee jerk. If we are going into a rebuild, we shouldn't be trading away a young player who has proven he can produce on the third line. Everyone struggles at times, trading a 22 year old who is struggling, when we are entering a rebuild period, isn't the right play.

This is the same argument with Grebeshkov this season. In the past couple of years, he's had one of the best +/- on our team, and has been one of the better offensive producers on the team among defensemen as well, but a bad season (when our team is 30th overall) means he's garbage who should be traded.

We shouldn't be trading away any young players who have any sort of potential. We should be dumping salary, hitting the cap floor, so that we can resign our younger players, like Cogliano, and give him a few more years to develop before writing him off as nobodies.

-JH.
Very good summary JH Hopefully management shares your view point. I hope he is nowhere near the 4th line next year.

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02-14-2010, 09:49 PM
  #94
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Cogliano was -2.

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02-14-2010, 10:20 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Tommy35 View Post
Very good summary JH Hopefully management shares your view point. I hope he is nowhere near the 4th line next year.
It's not even that. If Cogs works out as a Todd Marchant, so be it. But, if we are heading into a rebuild, we should be retaining Cogliano. Just like we should have retained Schremp, and how we should be resigning Brule, Potulny, Pouliot, Grebeshkov and Smid. None of our young players should be heading out at this point, because there's no reason to move them. We have the next 3-5 years to see what these guys are made of now.

It's certainly worth giving Cogliano a 1 year extension to see if he does, indeed, rebound with a decent offensive year.

-JH.

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02-14-2010, 10:29 PM
  #96
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Most 5 goal and 13 pt players, just don't go around insisting thay are "Top 6" forward material. If he does get traded, I don't think he is the next Adam Graves or Mike Gartner. Skating fast is a good tool, but he doesn't use it to his advantage, as has been pointed out.

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02-14-2010, 10:42 PM
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I'm not quite sure why people think Brule is in any way a better prospect than Cogliano. People use the argument that Cogliano only had some good seasons because, in his rookie season, other teams didn't shut his line down. Yet, those same people go one to say Brule is a better prospect because he is putting up numbers in his rookie season? Numbers that are actually inferior to what Cogliano put up in his rookie season?

Brule, in his rookie season, is on pace for 18g, 37 pts. Cogliano had a better rookie season in the NHL. Even if you add in the extra 12 games Brule has missed due to illness, he's only on pace for 43 points. That's roughly equal to Cogliano's rookie season.

Somehow, Cogliano's success the past 2 years is because of his sheltered minutes and lack of competition from the opposition, yet Brule, putting up similar (slightly worse) numbers under the same circumstances is the next big thing around here.

Last season, Cogliano had 1 more goal than Penner (equal assists) for a total of 38 points. Yet Penner had a full minute more ice time than Cogliano (that minute was gravy PP time, by the way.) Penner also saw plenty of ice time with Hemsky, our best offensive forward, where Cogliano spent all his time with Moreau and Stortini. Cogliano carried his line offensively last season, and put up better numbers than a lot of other 3rd liners in the entire league.

Cogliano was 11th in ice time among forwards last season, 9th in PP time on ice, and was playing with plugger linemates, yet was 4th in scoring among forwards on the team. He was 3 points behind Gagner, but with 2 more goals. I would argue he out-produced both Gagner and Penner last season, playing inferior minutes.

But, because Penner and Gagner bounced back this year, and Cogliano didn't, they are stars and Cogliano is a flop? It's knee jerk. If we are going into a rebuild, we shouldn't be trading away a young player who has proven he can produce on the third line. Everyone struggles at times, trading a 22 year old who is struggling, when we are entering a rebuild period, isn't the right play.

This is the same argument with Grebeshkov this season. In the past couple of years, he's had one of the best +/- on our team, and has been one of the better offensive producers on the team among defensemen as well, but a bad season (when our team is 30th overall) means he's garbage who should be traded.

We shouldn't be trading away any young players who have any sort of potential. We should be dumping salary, hitting the cap floor, so that we can resign our younger players, like Cogliano, and give him a few more years to develop before writing him off as nobodies.

-JH.
I agree this shouldn't be a Cogs v. Brule debate. Although bolded above, I imagine you are referring to Brule's Oiler 'rookie season' and not his insane NHL rookie spin under the delusional braintrust of the Columbus Blue Jacket. Brule is coming around nicely after almost being ruined as an underaged. Unlike the majority of Oilers this year, Brule has asserted himself onto the roster and has progressively gotten better in adverse conditions. As a -4 on Team Titanic and putting up decent offensive production, Brule has shown the mental toughness and sandpaper game that is so lacking on this team.

Now I like Cogliano just fine. With two years of 18 goal seasons and blazing speed, the guy has the raw skill to contribute offensive in this league. That said, the one thing I hear mentioned via media is a 'fragile' confidence. This year is a big setback but one that Cogs can take and learn from or wilt from the scrutiny placed upon him. Brule went through this wringer and has emerged as a versatile and valuable player for this franchise moving forward.

I think it is way too premature to think and expect that Cogliano's game needs to be transformed into that of Marchant V2. That said, this season has exposed the gaps in his game that need to improve to be a consistent, top six player. He has the tools but must continue to harness an all round game to succeed. The skill is there. I believe the will is there. But he has to put on the workboots to address some clear gaps in his game. He is still the kid that forced his way into the lineup and scored some very clutch goals and points for this team. I'd hardly compare him to Pouliot and the MacTavish pep talk with a guy left standing at the station when Gagner and Cogs passed him. Cogs has scored at every level including the NHL but that said, it is a time for introspection and some honest self assessment about the gaps in his game. And it is not time for this franchise to trade a young talented player at his lowest value. Patience. After all, we have seen this virtue rewarded with Brule.

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02-14-2010, 10:45 PM
  #98
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Wonder if Cogs will follow the same career path as Russ Courtnall....have a couple good seasons....followed by a terrible one that gets him traded and then back to respectability

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02-14-2010, 10:47 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by napaneeoilfan View Post
Most 5 goal and 13 pt players, just don't go around insisting thay are "Top 6" forward material. If he does get traded, I don't think he is the next Adam Graves or Mike Gartner. Skating fast is a good tool, but he doesn't use it to his advantage, as has been pointed out.
?

How soon we forget about his previous 2 seasons... Cogliano has consistently performed as well as Dustin Penner and Sam Gagner for the past 2 years, with inferior minutes for a good portion of the time. One bad season should not be enough to trade the guy when he's only 22, and we are entering a rebuild. Cogliano has the potential to be an offensive player. Why not give him the next couple of years to prove it, when we are rebuilding anyway? It's not like he's peaked in skill level at 22 years old.

Why throw him away now, when he could turn out to be the best player out of all of our prospects coming down the pipe, even Hall/Sequin?

-JH.

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02-14-2010, 10:52 PM
  #100
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Cogs scored 36 goals his first two season (18/season). Only Hemsky, Penner, and Horcoff have scored more in that span, and not by much either.

Why should he totally resign himself now to being a checking player after one bad season? That seems rather hasty to me. He's not cocky for stating that.

We might as well keep him for another year at least. He'll be cheap to resign and why would we want to trade an asset when his value is at rock bottom? I only trade him if another team is willing to eat Horcoff with him or send back a significant return.

Purge Nilsson and O'Sullivan, keep Cogs for at least another year. Maybe the speed of MPS + Cogs + Hall-Seguin + Hemsky will start to give other teams big headaches.

If he scores 15-18 goals again next year, the return we can get on him will be much, much better even if the plan is to deal him. I wouldn't be so quick to pencil in Brule over him in the long run either. Lets let that debate play out.

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