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The Entitlement Issue: Andrew Cogliano

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Old
02-14-2010, 09:57 PM
  #101
CupofOil
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Originally Posted by napaneeoilfan View Post
Most 5 goal and 13 pt players, just don't go around insisting thay are "Top 6" forward material. If he does get traded, I don't think he is the next Adam Graves or Mike Gartner. Skating fast is a good tool, but he doesn't use it to his advantage, as has been pointed out.
Uh, short memory much? He had two 18 goals seasons in his first two seasons in the league in a non offensive MacT system then he gets demoted this year playing with the likes of Moreau and Stortini on a regular basis and he's now a 5 goal 13 point player and not worthy of being top 6 material?

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02-14-2010, 10:02 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
I agree this shouldn't be a Cogs v. Brule debate. Although bolded above, I imagine you are referring to Brule's Oiler 'rookie season' and not his insane NHL rookie spin under the delusional braintrust of the Columbus Blue Jacket. Brule is coming around nicely after almost being ruined as an underaged.
Yes, I definitely was. Brule needs to forget he ever played for that organization. This is his true rookie season, the Columbus fiasco needs to be out of his head. They mismanaged him, plain and simple. He's their Schremp, as far as I'm concerned.

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I think it is way too premature to think and expect that Cogliano's game needs to be transformed into that of Marchant V2. That said, this season has exposed the gaps in his game that need to improve to be a consistent, top six player... Cogs has scored at every level including the NHL but that said, it is a time for introspection and some honest self assessment about the gaps in his game. And it is not time for this franchise to trade a young talented player at his lowest value.
Well, I agree there. Cogliano seems to work hard, and give a good effort, but he hasn't really addressed his weaknesses in these past 2+ years. Hopefully, some of what Comrie does on the ice rubs off on him this season. In fact, I'm hoping we retain Comrie, for no other reason than so he can teach guys like Cogs, Brule, and Potulny what it takes to succeed as a small forward in the league.

-JH.

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:09 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by A Vandelay View Post
I guess I'm just an old school 24 year old...
That isn't old school - the 'forwards must play defense first' philosophy was borne during the expansions of the 90s. When expansion clubs had no talent the coaches took advantage of the way the game was called where clutching and grabbing was permitted. So they invented systems and schemes and 'traps' in order to eliminate the effectiveness of talented players and give their teams of scrubs a chance to win. Of course, When the Panthers went to the finals in 1997, coaches everywhere bought into the idea that offensive forwards were selfish pigs and defensive schemes were the way to go.

That is the new school philosophy you subscribe to.

The old school actually believed that forwards should first and foremost put the puck in the net - there are three players behind the forwards that have the primary responsibility to prevent goals. The game is half scoring and half preventing goals and way back when, we believed that half the players should be focusing on scoring first and the other half should focus on preventing goals first. It was a beautiful thing.

That all being said, a kid that scores 18 goals as a rookie and again as a second-year guy while being buried on the 3rd line with no pp time should believe he is a goal-scorer in the NHL. He is having a bad year - as is every single Oiler. The kid can score at the NHL level and if we kick him to the curb he will do it with another team in this league. Telling him to become Todd Marchant is an insult. His answer was correct - if his career doesn't turn out the way he plans then he can look at becoming a Todd Marchant. That is what you do when you don't have NHL level talent - you try to figure out a way to stay in the league.

Cogliano is young, he could very well be a consistent 25 goal scorer. Wasting his potential by focusing on grinding would be a mistake at this juncture.

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:11 PM
  #104
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So out of Nilsson, O'Sullivan, and Cogliano, you would ditch Nilsson and O'Sullivan and keep Cogliano?

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02-14-2010, 10:11 PM
  #105
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I for one, have zero issue with Cogliano 'insisting' he is a top 6 forward...but there is only one way to make this statement: On the rink.

It doesn't matter who your linemates are or what your shooting % is or your TOI...you get the puck on the wing and you drive it to the net as hard you can with every ounce of determination you can summon.


But to sit here now...when the season is on the rocks after NOT delivering on the rink...time & time again...it's just not leaves me doubting this players inner fire.

Im certain that EVERY time the puck comes to him...its a chance to make a tangible statement.

Just shut the yap and skate it to the net. Anytime now would be good.

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:18 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
I for one, have zero issue with Cogliano 'insisting' he is a top 6 forward...but there is only one way to make this statement: On the rink.

It doesn't matter who your linemates are or what your shooting % is or your TOI...you get the puck on the wing and you drive it to the net as hard you can with every ounce of determination you can summon.


But to sit here now...when the season is on the rocks after NOT delivering on the rink...time & time again...it's just not leaves me doubting this players inner fire.

Im certain that EVERY time the puck comes to him...its a chance to make a tangible statement.

Just shut the yap and skate it to the net. Anytime now would be good.
Maybe he's afraid to go to the net.

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:29 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Yummy Snack View Post
Maybe he's afraid to go to the net.
Thats what I'm saying. Absolutley he is afraid.

Its up to him to come to grips with this and debunk it or be just another run-of-the-mill player.

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:29 PM
  #108
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Cogliano played 8 mins tonight. And he often only gets 12-13 mins per game. How does a back-to-back 18 goal scorer fall to 3rd-4th line duties?

Quinn, either..
a: doesn't like him
b: has been told by management that Cogliano doesn't fit their future plans

I'm going with option b.

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:35 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatgazoo View Post
Cogliano played 8 mins tonight. And he often only gets 12-13 mins per game. How does a back-to-back 18 goal scorer fall to 3rd-4th line duties?

Quinn, either..
a: doesn't like him
b: has been told by management that Cogliano doesn't fit their future plans

I'm going with option b.
And in those 8 minutes, he was a -2.

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:38 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatgazoo View Post
Cogliano played 8 mins tonight. And he often only gets 12-13 mins per game. How does a back-to-back 18 goal scorer fall to 3rd-4th line duties?

Quinn, either..
a: doesn't like him
b: has been told by management that Cogliano doesn't fit their future plans

I'm going with option b.
Does this mean Cogs will be traded? 8 minutes this game?!

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:54 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by OilerNut View Post
People on here are always looking for a reason to hate Cogliano, I don't really understand why.
Have been watching him play for yrs. He will rebound. Go Cogs Go!

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Old
02-14-2010, 11:36 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatgazoo View Post
Cogliano played 8 mins tonight. And he often only gets 12-13 mins per game. How does a back-to-back 18 goal scorer fall to 3rd-4th line duties?

Quinn, either..
a: doesn't like him
b: has been told by management that Cogliano doesn't fit their future plans

I'm going with option b.
Well he managed to be -2 in 8mins of play. Who the hell in his right mind would give him more?

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02-14-2010, 11:42 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Well he managed to be -2 in 8mins of play. Who the hell in his right mind would give him more?
Ron Wilson.

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Old
02-15-2010, 01:05 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Yummy Snack View Post
So out of Nilsson, O'Sullivan, and Cogliano, you would ditch Nilsson and O'Sullivan and keep Cogliano?
Why do we need to keep only 1? We don't need to trim all the fat this season, in terms of our young talent. We should be shopping Nilsson, as he's clearly the odd man out, having only scored a career high of 10 goals in 1 season, and never more than 41 points. Trade Nilsson, keep the other 2.

-JH.

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Old
02-15-2010, 01:41 AM
  #115
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Cogs is as good as gone and I have no problem with it. I like that he loves being an Oiler but his skill set is not needed on this team.

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02-15-2010, 09:54 AM
  #116
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Sense of entitlement?

Because he thinks he can be a top six forward. Huh?

He has never whined, complained or said anything even though he has played all over the lineup.

Ridiculous.

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02-15-2010, 10:11 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Well he managed to be -2 in 8mins of play. Who the hell in his right mind would give him more?
Good one, have you actually looked at Horcoffs + - log of misery game in and game out for about the past 25 games? He still gets pp time, pk time, regular shift.

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Old
02-15-2010, 10:15 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Good one, have you actually looked at Horcoffs + - log of misery game in and game out for about the past 25 games? He still gets pp time, pk time, regular shift.
Am I defending Horcoff?

Aside from that much of Quinn's player use, assignments, and TOI are mysterious at best so I suspect we agree on that much.

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02-15-2010, 10:28 AM
  #119
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Am I defending Horcoff?

Aside from that much of Quinn's player use, assignments, and TOI are mysterious at best so I suspect we agree on that much.
Your mention of Quinn player use and assignments made me think of something.

I remember some of the stat guys after the Quinn hire. They had mentioned since Quinn is less of a line matcher than MacT. That Horc's counting numbers should show a healthy increase since he will be facing some softer comp at times. But even after collecting 3 points in his last two games he is on pace for what 30 points on the season? I guess that has not been working out as well as they thought.

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02-15-2010, 11:34 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Good one, have you actually looked at Horcoffs + - log of misery game in and game out for about the past 25 games? He still gets pp time, pk time, regular shift.
Exactly and don't forget POS. But Cogs, nope, not priveledged to enjoy any of that.
This is all a matter of money/salary., Just like the playing time we gave to Penner his first 2 yrs, management doesn't want egg on their face. Can we honestly see a combined salary of $8MILLION (Horc/Pos) delgated to the 4th line? Not really, let's put the kid making only $750,000 on the 4th, plus he's coming up for a new contract. so they want him to suck statistically

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02-15-2010, 01:57 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Tommy35 View Post
Exactly and don't forget POS. But Cogs, nope, not priveledged to enjoy any of that.
This is all a matter of money/salary., Just like the playing time we gave to Penner his first 2 yrs, management doesn't want egg on their face. Can we honestly see a combined salary of $8MILLION (Horc/Pos) delgated to the 4th line? Not really, let's put the kid making only $750,000 on the 4th, plus he's coming up for a new contract. so they want him to suck statistically
The fact of the matter is, Cogs hasn't earned any increased ice time. He has been given opportunities with the first line and some PP time but has done nothing with it. Why keep rewarding him for lousy play?

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Old
02-15-2010, 02:01 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Yummy Snack View Post
So out of Nilsson, O'Sullivan, and Cogliano, you would ditch Nilsson and O'Sullivan and keep Cogliano?
Who wouldn't?

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Old
02-15-2010, 03:06 PM
  #123
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Uh, short memory much? He had two 18 goals seasons in his first two seasons in the league in a non offensive MacT system then he gets demoted this year playing with the likes of Moreau and Stortini on a regular basis and he's now a 5 goal 13 point player and not worthy of being top 6 material?
I remember what he did the two previous seasons, but in the NHL players can't rest on their laurels. If Cogs doesn't like 3/4 line duty-play your way off those lines. Play strong defensively and create chances offensively with his speed. I like him, but he might need an attitude ajustment and take a workmanship approach to be a consistant top 6 forward.

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02-15-2010, 03:23 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
Sense of entitlement?

Because he thinks he can be a top six forward. Huh?

He has never whined, complained or said anything even though he has played all over the lineup.

Ridiculous.
Completely agreed! He thinks he's a better player than Marchant and I have no problem with that at all. He should be a better player!

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Old
02-15-2010, 04:27 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Good one, have you actually looked at Horcoffs + - log of misery game in and game out for about the past 25 games? He still gets pp time, pk time, regular shift.
Oh I see, so even if Cogs was -5 that night, it wouldn't matter because everything needs to be compared to Horcoff's stats?

Actually I agree with you that Cogliano is being put into a position where he is obviously not succeeding. He hasn't developed much chemistry with Moreau on the 3rd line, yet he's continued to be plugged in there.

That being said, the issue isn't so black and white - since when is getting better defensively, makes you a worse player offensively? Can't one focus on getting better defensively and also offensively? One of the problems with Cogliano is that he's not a very good player defensively, not a penalty killer, not a power player specialist nor is he a good faceoff centreman. So what is his role?

The answer might be that he hasn't been given a real opportunity to play any of those roles as there are, according to Coach Quinn, players more suited to those positions.

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