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Habs Get Booed Off Ice, into Olympics

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Old
02-14-2010, 12:32 PM
  #151
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I don't mind when we lose, but losing without much effort really is disgusting.

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02-14-2010, 12:35 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
To Odelein24: the problem going forward isn't Markov, it's Gomez's contract.
Gomez's contract isn't the problem, having $9 million tied up to 2 35-year-old defensemen is.

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Old
02-14-2010, 12:36 PM
  #153
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The team's not very good with that many players out. It's debatable whether it's a good team with those guys in, I suppose, too...

But I hope this shows Gauthier why there is a need for physical players. You can't ice a team full of goons, but you can't ice a team filled completely with weaker guys either. The Flyers set the tone not only with their physical play but their skill as well. Certainly the Habs have some level of team toughness (guys like Moen, O'Byrne do take the body), but realistically, if they played the Flyers in a playoff series they'd get creamed. You saw it all game, the rushed decisions from the Habs D wary of being run over, forwards turning over the puck, etc.

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02-14-2010, 01:13 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes, I did see Plek get pushed from behind by Carcillo who's a known pest. Who should have jumped him...S.Kost??..Moore??..so they can get creamed like O'By??..
Didn't Moen invite Carcillo to fight but he declined??..Wasn't on the same shift.
It seemed the exact opposite to me. Carcillo looked at him a few times, and Moen never even took a glance at him.

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02-14-2010, 02:20 PM
  #155
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when the going gets tough this team just can't handle it.this team is too small and likes to play a perimeter game.we aren't good on the boards or in front of the net.i don't really like to blame the guys on the ice.i like to blame the guys who brought them here and thought they could compete.i think the gainey administration banked on the league changing the rules to make the game into a river hockey league.not ever going to happen and this is what we're left with and the worst part is the fat contracts to these softies.even if we were a healthy team we would still be a soft perimeter playing team cause the vast majoity of our guys are.hopefully the new gm realizes this and doesn't think we are a player ot two away from contending for the cup.the foundation is soft and so is the team.

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02-14-2010, 02:56 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I don't mind when we lose, but losing without much effort really is disgusting.
ive always wondered what exactly does this mean???

i mean, how do you quantify effort???

what about the mere fact that the habs were shut down the entire night by a better team that came at them hard, that didnt let them do anything they wanted? no credit given to a very good team with an actual good coach??

and i doubt you not minding losing. i mind losing ANY game, no matter the "effort" the habs put in. What about winning a game where "effort" wasnt there? How do you feel about that?

It's time to change the record dude. Get over it.

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02-14-2010, 03:08 PM
  #157
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people can complain about gomer's contract all they want, but i suggest you go watch what lecavalier is doing in new york now....NOTHING. No effort or anything. Gomez may not as be as gifted as Vinny, but at least he gives it his all every game.

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02-14-2010, 03:18 PM
  #158
Kjell Dahlin
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Originally Posted by RevenueSharing View Post
people can complain about gomer's contract all they want, but i suggest you go watch what lecavalier is doing in new york now....NOTHING. No effort or anything. Gomez may not as be as gifted as Vinny, but at least he gives it his all every game.
I think Gomez is a good and creative player… but come on!

Lecavalier
29 years old
6’4” 223 pnds
80-90 points per season
7,7M$ cap hit

Lecavalier currently ranks 24th overall in terms of points.

Gomez
30 years old
5’11” 202 pnds
50-60 points per season
7,4M$ cap hit

Gomez currently ranks 77th overall in terms of points.

The only GM willing to absorb Gomez’s contract was Gainey and sadly for us, he was Montreal’s GM.

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02-14-2010, 03:33 PM
  #159
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Dahlin, you have to understand this board. Someone on here just a few days ago stated that they would rather have Hamrlik over Phaneuf. Hilarious.

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Old
02-14-2010, 04:07 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony View Post
ive always wondered what exactly does this mean???

i mean, how do you quantify effort???
Finishing checks, being prepared to play, second efforts. When the team plays a good game, they do all the little things. They lose a lot of games they still play well.

Quote:
what about the mere fact that the habs were shut down the entire night by a better team that came at them hard, that didnt let them do anything they wanted? no credit given to a very good team with an actual good coach??
Again, it's not the loss, it's the way the team loses. It is almost as if they are surrendering, tossing in the towel early on in the game.

Quote:
and i doubt you not minding losing. i mind losing ANY game, no matter the "effort" the habs put in. What about winning a game where "effort" wasnt there? How do you feel about that?
I don't mind losing, because the team isn't going to go 82-0. You can learn a lot by a loss, it can make you better. When you lose without really ever being in the game, you don't learn very much.


Quote:
It's time to change the record dude. Get over it.
Oh, thanks 'dude', for your wicked insight.

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Old
02-14-2010, 04:22 PM
  #161
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Montreal doesn't have any depth, granted injuries weren't helping but the Flyers when they decide to actually play a full 60mins are one of the toughest in the league. Their defensive core is one of the best, they cover pretty well. You lost to a superior team in everyway. Canadians need to go get some bigger players and not keep going after all the small guys. You should mix it up between finesse and size. I thought you played better under carbo than Martin IMO.

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Old
02-14-2010, 05:52 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
Why was Pronger so mad? He looked like he was going to hit Subban in the back with a dirty boarding shot. Idiot got out smarted by a rookie.
Pronger was skating in for just a normal check, and Subban cowers out of the way but leaves his leg there for Pronger to trip over. That can't be very dangerous right near the boards.

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Old
02-14-2010, 05:59 PM
  #163
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Lets get rid of the flyers entire 1st line, Pronger and Coburn and see how well they play? The reality is the team has half their regulars out of the lineup. I don't understand this whole "blow everything up" mentality when STAR players are injured. C'mon!

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02-14-2010, 06:25 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Away KeepersDome View Post
Pronger was skating in for just a normal check, and Subban cowers out of the way but leaves his leg there for Pronger to trip over. That can't be very dangerous right near the boards.
Yeah, Pronger's working his way to the Lady Byng.

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Old
02-14-2010, 06:28 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
It seemed the exact opposite to me. Carcillo looked at him a few times, and Moen never even took a glance at him.
Don Cherry disagrees, if you were watching on cbc

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Old
02-14-2010, 06:34 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Away KeepersDome View Post
Pronger was skating in for just a normal check, and Subban cowers out of the way but leaves his leg there for Pronger to trip over. That can't be very dangerous right near the boards.
Oh right it's normal to check players in the back. Your dirty team is known for it remember Bruin's Bergeron almost getting killed from a hit behind. Powe hit two people from behind in two games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
Don Cherry disagrees, if you were watching on cbc
Don Cherry showed Moen lined up next to Carcillo talking to him he even gestured the willingness to fight but Carcillo would rather go after Pleks or Gaborik. Guys like Carcillo would get tuned up if the instigator rule was dropped.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-15-2010 at 12:37 AM. Reason: Merge
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Old
02-14-2010, 06:41 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Lets get rid of the flyers entire 1st line, Pronger and Coburn and see how well they play? The reality is the team has half their regulars out of the lineup. I don't understand this whole "blow everything up" mentality when STAR players are injured. C'mon!
You make too much sense for HFBoards dude.

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Old
02-14-2010, 06:44 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I don't mind when we lose, but losing without much effort really is disgusting.
I hate these comments.

Yes if Darche, Desharnais, Pyatt, Metropolit, Moen, Lapierre and Moore all gave a better effort we would have won or lost "respectfully."

This team played a team that just has more talent than us right now. Our goalie did not make a save and even if he did we would have lost like Friday.

Putting in the effort is one thing but having the ability to win every night with the lack of talent we currently have is another. Throw in the fact that so many of our players are smaller, playing against a bigger Philly team takes even more effort to make a simple play.

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02-14-2010, 07:27 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by MoMo316 View Post
Keep Markov, Subban, Obyrne, Gorges And rebuild the rest of the D from scratch.
Posted via Mobile Device
I agree with this 100%. I think up front the team actually looks pretty good, and we have 2 good goalies. It's the D that worries me....lots of dead weight there. Imagine the 4 mentioned above with 1 more SPEEDY puck moving D man, and and one more tough hard hitting stay at home D man (not gill). I really like the core of forwards we now have (assuming Pleks stays), it's the Habs back end that worries me.

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Old
02-14-2010, 08:11 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
You make too much sense for HFBoards dude.
I just hate the way the board reacts after a loss. I'm surprised the team is doing this well when you take a look at the key injuries. Every single player on their top 6 has been injured (except Pleks). Every D-man has been injured (except Gorges). Most teams would be nowhere near the playoffs.

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Old
02-14-2010, 11:45 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Couldn't really argue with the deleted portion of your post, but this last section is, well, horse crap. Having one of the best defenders in the league, and a leader on possibly the best international team in hockey right now, benefits any young player you bring into the organization; regardless of their talent level. Markov probably has 5 more solid years (at least?) ahead of him. If his play is so bad (and getting worse, as some would try to suggest), wouldn't that mean he'd be just as cheap (or cheaper) next time FA rolls around?

Also, "Shanahan type guys" play forward, take up only 1 of 12 forward positions, and don't hurt the team as much if they find themselves in the press box from time to time (or recovering from the odd old guy injury). Which veteran d-man is going to provide that level of example/mentorship at significantly less money (like you said, you gotta "show those guys the money") while also playing well enough to improve the strength of the d-corps rather than finding themselves in the press box or infirmary more often than we'd like?

Not saying it's impossible. It's just one of the furthest considerations/gambles (yes, it would be classified as a HUGE gamble) from the mind of any team that has Markov right now, next year, or even a few years after that, whether they go the complete rebuild route or are gunning for a Cup. I understand what you're saying about "cashing in on his value", but there's no way anyone else is coming in over the next 3-5 years that is even going to rival Markov in overall ability (*anticipates the playing of the PK Subban card), so I think you're better off keeping him and trying to improve the other 5 spots as best you can. You can follow your plan and still have Markov playing valuable minutes outside of the top pairing in his "twilight" mid-30s... possibly for less of a cap hit than some might think.

Furthermore, given the number of radical changes that have been made to this team's core recently (with mixed success so far), I don't think I could defend trading away one of the team's most long-standing members, especially given that he has been the team's best player pretty much the whole time, unless there was a drastic/remarkably negative development. Hamrlik, Spacek, Gill, Mara, Bergeron, etc (even O'Byrne, really), however, hold no particularly special place in my heart as a long-time Habs fan, and occupy enough cap and roster space to play around with if we only had a magic eraser right now.

I mean, this team would be in pretty good shape with Markov on a second pairing (even at his current $5M), and two more deserving guys ahead of him on the 1st. Certainly better than paying $9(+?) million for the services being rendered by the current 2nd pairing (read: Hamrlik and Spacek).
I don't think that I said that having Markov wouldn't benefit younger players (and if I did, I misspoke.) What I'm saying is that he's far more valuable to us as a trading chip than as a mentor. Keeping players in their early thirties on a team that isn't going to win anytime soon just doesn't make sense when we could get elite young talent in return. Calgary won a cup with Newendyke and still traded him for some kid named Iginla. It didn't win them a cup but it brought a player they were able to build around in return. Why can't we do something like this?

The fact is that we don't have elite prospects in our system. So all the mentoring in the world doesn't make a difference without those kinds of prospects in the system. You can coach Ryan O'Byrne all you want but he'll never be Ray Bourque. Why not deal for a prospect who we can build around?

As for my Shanahan comment... it can be a vet defenseman. I think you know this so I don't understand the nitpicking on that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes, I did see Plek get pushed from behind by Carcillo who's a known pest. Who should have jumped him...S.Kost??..Moore??..so they can get creamed like O'By??..
Didn't Moen invite Carcillo to fight but he declined??..Wasn't on the same shift.
Yes. Anyone who was on the ice should've jumped in. I don't care how small you are you have to answer the bell.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I also saw O'Byrne get completely KOd. Did you want someone else to fight Laperriere for revenge??..Who should it have been??..Lappy?..Gill??...Why exactly??..to lose yet another fight and give them more momentum??
The game was already lost.

All we did was go out without a fight and we sent a message to the rest of the league that you can push us around and we won't do anything about it.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I agree, we lack size, grit and talent on bottom 6 and our D. But I disagree with heart. You say you see a Habs team get intimidated and pushed around every game but I don't. I see players stick up for each other even if they're small. What's frustrating is that we don't have big aggressive guys. It's not because our players don't drop their gloves or jump any player every time there's a ''dirty'' hit that they lack heart.

Calling them heartless is an exaggeration.
Then why is it that the analysts out there disagree with you?

Honestly, it was embarassing to watch the game yesterday. How old are you? Do you remember those teams from the 70s and 80s? There's no way that ever would've happened with those clubs. THOSE teams had heart. Teams come in and push us around in our own building all the time and it's happened all year long.

Stop trying to cling at straws here.


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Old
02-15-2010, 12:28 AM
  #172
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we lost with our best 3 goalscorers and top defenseman missing? shock!

let's see any other team hold a playoff position with this many injuries

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02-15-2010, 12:35 AM
  #173
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we lost with our best 3 goalscorers and top defenseman missing? shock!

let's see any other team hold a playoff position with this many injuries
We were healthy in January and nothing changed. We get outplayed every night and are 25th in the league in offense despite having played more games than just about everyone. The only time we score is on the PP and we can't win a game in regulation. Without the stellar play of our goalies we'd be nowhere near a playoff spot.

Injuries are nothing but an excuse.

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02-15-2010, 01:43 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
I hate these comments.

Yes if Darche, Desharnais, Pyatt, Metropolit, Moen, Lapierre and Moore all gave a better effort we would have won or lost "respectfully."

This team played a team that just has more talent than us right now. Our goalie did not make a save and even if he did we would have lost like Friday.

Putting in the effort is one thing but having the ability to win every night with the lack of talent we currently have is another. Throw in the fact that so many of our players are smaller, playing against a bigger Philly team takes even more effort to make a simple play.
Making excuses for not showing up, and playing hard for 60 minutes, should be left for the beer league. The team that beat Washington, played hard and desperate. The team that played Philly twice, played hard and desperate for 10 minutes.

I love it when the fans make excuses for getting beaten. Watch what happens in other markets when the team takes a few nights off. Take a shift, or two off, and see how Lindy Ruff responds.

Sorry, the injury excuse doesn't make an ounce of difference when it comes to competing, and showing up to play.

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02-15-2010, 01:58 AM
  #175
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Whats with we are injured so lets take away the flyers first line, bla bla bla. Okay Markov was out and cammaleri. Thats it! Those are the only decent caliber players that were out. Gionta, Gomez, Plek played. I mean some of you said it yourself you beat Pittsburgh, Washington with a similar lineup. Gotta give credit where its due. Injuries are part of the game.

Take out Carter/richards/Gagne

Briere scored 3, betts scored 1, still a 4-2 game. You think some of you with so many posts would be mature enough to realize the team isn't that good.


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