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Re-build: New Goalie or status-quo?

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Old
02-14-2010, 03:16 AM
  #1
not quite yoda
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Re-build: New Goalie or status-quo?

Hi,

I'm not trollin', I'm just a fan wonderin'.

With these "big changes" coming (re-build?)...

Are you guys looking for a goalie or is Khabibulan still the plan?

Most team re-build from the back end out. That's what the Canucks did under Burke when Tambellini was there.

It seems your main building blocks are Eberle, Paajarvi-Svensson, Gagner and Smid. Everyone assumes you'll get either Hall or Seguin. Another speedy forward.

So my question is is a new goalie in the plans or do you stick with what you have for now? And if you do want a goalie, what do you have in mind in offering?

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02-14-2010, 03:33 AM
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Auguste Escoffier
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Who's out there, that can come in and immediately fill the void left by a retiring Khabibulin, while being young and talented? Harden and Halak? Do the Oilers attempt to acquire Schneider?

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02-14-2010, 04:18 AM
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ncredible
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I'd still like to go with the option of Harding but yeah division rivals and all.. may make that a tough trade.

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02-14-2010, 04:24 AM
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nexttothemoon
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I personally think the TOP priority should be a good young goaler. Khabi isn't the answer short or long term because of his injury problems as well as his age. Our back ups I don't think have displayed that they are NHL ready and I don't think they are going to be elite NHL caliber level tenders. I could be wrong but I'd trade pretty much any prospect/player on the Oilers for a top young goalie like Halak. A solid goaltender in the net can make the difference in this league as they can steal games in the regular season and they play an even larger role in the playoffs.

Calgary wouldn't even be in contention without Kipper, NJ would be at least a couple notches lower in the standings without Brodeur... same goes for teams like Buffalo with Miller, NYR with Lundqvist ,Colorado with Anderson, Vokoun (should be a strong Vezina candidate) in Florida, Phoenix with Bryzgalov etc.

If Edmonton had a genuine franchise type Goaltender (which we have arguably never had) in nets that would be a huge factor in a rebuild.

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02-14-2010, 07:24 AM
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What does everyone think of Jack Campbell. He is a top 5 pick in the draft and a franchise goalie in the future. I was thinking that maybe Edmonton trades down to the 3rd/4th spot in the draft to take him. Here are a couple of scenarios that could work and benefit Edmonton.

At the draft Edmonton trades the 1st overall pick for the 4th overall pick.

If the top 4 teams are

Edmonton
Boston (via Toronto)
NY Islanders
Florida Panthers or Carolina

Would it be worth while if Edmonton gets New York's 1st (3rd overall) and select Jack Campbell and also receives Travis Hamonic in return for Edmonton's 1st (Tyler Seguin)

Or trade it to Florida for again Jack Campbell and Dmitri Kulikov or Michael Frolik

Or Carolina for Jack Campbell and Brandon Sutter

I will also add Columbus in on the top 4 and have Jack Campbell and John Moore or Nikita Filatov coming back to Edmonton.

My reason being would be that Edmonton is already set up front with forwards for the future with Gagner, Cogliano, Eberle, MPS, Lander, Rajala, and others. But the Oilers are lacking the big name in future goaltending. I believe Campbell would take care of that problem and the Oilers would also have another piece to add to the prospects depth chart in either of Hamonic, Sutter, Kulikov, Frolik, Moore or Filatov.

I do realize that Hall or Seguin would be 1st overall, but if we get Campbell and another significant piece the Oilers would be better off in the future than with just Hall or Seguin.

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02-14-2010, 08:28 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoldwell View Post
What does everyone think of Jack Campbell. He is a top 5 pick in the draft and a franchise goalie in the future. I was thinking that maybe Edmonton trades down to the 3rd/4th spot in the draft to take him. Here are a couple of scenarios that could work and benefit Edmonton.

At the draft Edmonton trades the 1st overall pick for the 4th overall pick.

If the top 4 teams are

Edmonton
Boston (via Toronto)
NY Islanders
Florida Panthers or Carolina

Would it be worth while if Edmonton gets New York's 1st (3rd overall) and select Jack Campbell and also receives Travis Hamonic in return for Edmonton's 1st (Tyler Seguin)

Or trade it to Florida for again Jack Campbell and Dmitri Kulikov or Michael Frolik

Or Carolina for Jack Campbell and Brandon Sutter

I will also add Columbus in on the top 4 and have Jack Campbell and John Moore or Nikita Filatov coming back to Edmonton.

My reason being would be that Edmonton is already set up front with forwards for the future with Gagner, Cogliano, Eberle, MPS, Lander, Rajala, and others. But the Oilers are lacking the big name in future goaltending. I believe Campbell would take care of that problem and the Oilers would also have another piece to add to the prospects depth chart in either of Hamonic, Sutter, Kulikov, Frolik, Moore or Filatov.

I do realize that Hall or Seguin would be 1st overall, but if we get Campbell and another significant piece the Oilers would be better off in the future than with just Hall or Seguin.
No,

You don't trade the # 1 overall pick for any of that garbage.

If you scout correctly, a goalie can be found, ala Kipper, Rinne, Ellis, Backstrom, etc. It's not everday that you have the chance to select a potential franchise player.

I'd go after a guy like Carey Price. He'd be my first choice. Get him out of the Montreal fishbowl and into the Edmonton spotlight.

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02-14-2010, 10:06 AM
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I really worry about people who want Carey Price here. They obviously don't know goaltending. JDD is going to be as good as Price and right now he has the same problem that Price has had throughout his NHL career. He lets in really bad goals at really inopportune times. I am definitely not sold on Devan Dubnyk, but I like what JDD brings to the table. Hopefully Khabibulin can come in next year and bring his game back to the same level, but if not, we will get another high pick next year, and then we can hope that Olivier Roy or some other free agent goalie can come in and be a top goaltender. I don't see Khabibulin playing anymore than one more year in the NHL. He probably retires from hockey altogether or ends up in the KHL(this is pure speculation on my part)

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02-14-2010, 10:31 AM
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We should call up Sather and have him be our middle man in a Vancouver/Schneider trade. Gillis would be so pissed

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02-14-2010, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hossy316 View Post
No,

You don't trade the # 1 overall pick for any of that garbage.

If you scout correctly, a goalie can be found, ala Kipper, Rinne, Ellis, Backstrom, etc. It's not everday that you have the chance to select a potential franchise player.

I'd go after a guy like Carey Price. He'd be my first choice. Get him out of the Montreal fishbowl and into the Edmonton spotlight.
So you are saying the Jack Campbell who is a franchise goalie is garbage along with the other prospects/young players I mentioned. I am glad you know your hockey.

As for scouting goaltending Kipper isn't available as Calgary has him signed for another 4 years at $5.8M per season. I don't think Edmonton would take that kind of salary on with Khabibulin signed at $3.75M/yr.

I wouldn't call Rinne, Ellis a franchise goalie either. Oh and Carey Price, is overrated and his starting job is being taken over by Halak. So that says something there.

If the Oilers are truly rebuilding, then do it right and don't sign or trade for old goaltenders. Draft and build within. Having Campbell as our future franchise goalie along with another added young top 6 or top pairing defenseman would help tremendously.

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02-14-2010, 10:56 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoldwell View Post
What does everyone think of Jack Campbell. He is a top 5 pick in the draft and a franchise goalie in the future. I was thinking that maybe Edmonton trades down to the 3rd/4th spot in the draft to take him. Here are a couple of scenarios that could work and benefit Edmonton.

My reason being would be that Edmonton is already set up front with forwards for the future with Gagner, Cogliano, Eberle, MPS, Lander, Rajala, and others.
Wrong. He is ranked usually in the teens.

Cogliano is not someone you should count on as being an important part of a set future. Noone knows how Eberle will play in the NHL because of his size. Lander, while I like him is probably going to max out as a solid 2 way 3rd liner (I hope he can be more but it is unlikely), and Rajala? I don't even know if he'll ever get an NHL game the guy is so small. He has alot of skill but he has a MAJOR uphill climb.

Not one of those players with the exception of MPS has blue chip first line cement status.

Oh and your avatar is not allowed just a heads up so you don't get a warning.


Last edited by Valic: 02-14-2010 at 11:02 AM.
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Old
02-14-2010, 10:59 AM
  #11
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I tend to agree with you to some point, a great goaltender is a big part of any rebuild. Earlier in the year, I didn't have much faith in JDD, but lately I'm starting to change my mind about him. He seems to be getting his confidence, and playing with an edge. He's challenging players more, and seems more aggressive with the puck. I'd love to see him & Halak playing for the Oilers next year.

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02-14-2010, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mactforcoach View Post
I tend to agree with you to some point, a great goaltender is a big part of any rebuild. Earlier in the year, I didn't have much faith in JDD, but lately I'm starting to change my mind about him. He seems to be getting his confidence, and playing with an edge. He's challenging players more, and seems more aggressive with the puck. I'd love to see him & Halak playing for the Oilers next year.
You are absolutely right about JDD. Now he just needs to control himself better in the net. He tends to overplay the passes across the crease and slide out of his net...ala MA fleury in his first few seasons. JDD is a big guy, so he doesn't need to go so far when playing cross crease passes.

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02-14-2010, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by PKSpecialist View Post
I really worry about people who want Carey Price here. They obviously don't know goaltending. JDD is going to be as good as Price
what??? how do ya figure? price is younger and has a resume to back up the hype

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02-14-2010, 11:32 AM
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what??? how do ya figure? price is younger and has a resume to back up the hype
By watching hockey. Price doesn't battle. The best goalies do. You have to fight to see through traffic, you have to make the second effort, the third effort and the fourth effort. I grew up playing goal, and still do. I watch goalies all the time. Carey Price doesn't have the intangibles needed to succeed as a great starting goaltender. Neither does JDD. They will both be OK in the NHL, but there is no point in trading for Price when we have the equivalent here now.

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02-14-2010, 11:45 AM
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Wouldn't mind Campbell in our system but no way do we need to use a 4th overall pick for him. Maybe go after the 10th pick and take Niederreiter if he's sill around. If he's not then take Campbell at 10th which is still a little high.

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02-14-2010, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoldwell View Post
What does everyone think of Jack Campbell. He is a top 5 pick in the draft and a franchise goalie in the future. I was thinking that maybe Edmonton trades down to the 3rd/4th spot in the draft to take him.
Campbell's projected to go 10-15. definitely not top 5.

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02-14-2010, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by PKSpecialist View Post
By watching hockey. Price doesn't battle. The best goalies do. You have to fight to see through traffic, you have to make the second effort, the third effort and the fourth effort. I grew up playing goal, and still do. I watch goalies all the time. Carey Price doesn't have the intangibles needed to succeed as a great starting goaltender. Neither does JDD. They will both be OK in the NHL, but there is no point in trading for Price when we have the equivalent here now.
Interesting observation on Price. I have been trying to figure out what his potential is. With your goalie background, what other established goalie would you compare Price's style to?

Price kind of remind me to Tom Barraso and Darren Puppa type, big, when they on the buttefly they still sit up pretty tall cover the top of the net, but may be kind of slow sometimes to go down (as what you pointed out, may be he doesn't battle. Since by going down quicker and then you have to get up & down more often or move lateral pushing from post to post while down on the butterfly?). Thanks for the insight in advance.

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02-14-2010, 12:25 PM
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I was totally pissed that we didn't pick up Anderson even prior to the UFA day (trade) but I'm glad we didn't since we have a top 5 pick.

Ellis or Rinne come to mind as nice, pricey back-ups but if this team is going to rebuild for another year without Khabby then just go with JDD and an experienced sucker that will lose us games.

IMO there are too many good UFAs out there this summer and we have many pieces for a trade so let's do what Ottawa is this year.

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02-14-2010, 12:26 PM
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I like the idea of Carey Price in Oiler silks.

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02-14-2010, 12:54 PM
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There's nothing preventing Oilers from picking up UFA Ellis who would come a lot cheaper and who does a better job on rebounds than Price does. That would let Dubnyk develop longer in the A.

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02-14-2010, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
I personally think the TOP priority should be a good young goaler. Khabi isn't the answer short or long term because of his injury problems as well as his age. Our back ups I don't think have displayed that they are NHL ready and I don't think they are going to be elite NHL caliber level tenders. I could be wrong but I'd trade pretty much any prospect/player on the Oilers for a top young goalie like Halak. A solid goaltender in the net can make the difference in this league as they can steal games in the regular season and they play an even larger role in the playoffs.

Calgary wouldn't even be in contention without Kipper, NJ would be at least a couple notches lower in the standings without Brodeur... same goes for teams like Buffalo with Miller, NYR with Lundqvist ,Colorado with Anderson, Vokoun (should be a strong Vezina candidate) in Florida, Phoenix with Bryzgalov etc.

If Edmonton had a genuine franchise type Goaltender (which we have arguably never had) in nets that would be a huge factor in a rebuild.
First off there is no "we." You don't play for the Oilers and I'm pretty sure they don't need you in any way.

Secondly, Fuhr and CuJo weren't franchise goalies? They were both top 5 goalies during their prime. Fuhr is a hall of famer and only 1 of 3 inducted in the last 20 years. CuJo had a solid playoff career and is 4th all time for regular season wins.

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02-14-2010, 01:06 PM
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nexttothemoon
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Goalers generally take a longer period to develop into an NHL caliber player so if we can skip a few years of development by getting a proven asset like Halak I'd be all for that over using a draft pick to draft a "potential" franchise goaler who likely won't play in the NHL for several years.

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02-14-2010, 01:20 PM
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First off there is no "we." You don't play for the Oilers and I'm pretty sure they don't need you in any way.

Secondly, Fuhr and CuJo weren't franchise goalies? They were both top 5 goalies during their prime. Fuhr is a hall of famer and only 1 of 3 inducted in the last 20 years. CuJo had a solid playoff career and is 4th all time for regular season wins.
First off... that's a common way of referring to the team when you're a fan of a team... "we could use a better goalie"... "we played crap in January" etc.

Do you play for the Oilers and do they need you? Didn't think so bud. We are in the same boat dude and we can both spout crap and opinions all we want on a forum... I think that's what these are for... or are they your personal domain where you can pick apart people's grammar? Maybe you should go to Uni and teach English if you want to do that.

I said arguably we have never had a young franchise goaltender. Yes Fuhr was probably a franchise type goaler. I said arguably... so if some say he was then that's their opinion. Of course any goalie in the days of Gretzky,Kurri and the rest of that 5.5 goals per game bunch could let in 5 goals a game and still pile up the wins with that offense in front of them.

Cujo I would say was a good goaler but we didn't exactly get him when he was young and we generally are talking in this thread about young prospect franchise goalers... not already established 30+ year olds.


Last edited by nexttothemoon: 02-14-2010 at 01:25 PM.
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Old
02-14-2010, 01:22 PM
  #24
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There's nothing preventing Oilers from picking up UFA Ellis who would come a lot cheaper and who does a better job on rebounds than Price does. That would let Dubnyk develop longer in the A.
That's if nobody picks him off waivers.

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02-14-2010, 01:26 PM
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There's nothing preventing Oilers from picking up UFA Ellis who would come a lot cheaper and who does a better job on rebounds than Price does. That would let Dubnyk develop longer in the A.
No it wouldnt because hed be picked up off waivers

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