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Pens and Flames (Staal)

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:14 PM
  #101
EternallyLeafs
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Originally Posted by Silvesta View Post
Do I care??



Here is 25 cents now go tell someone who cares.
Ok buddy, I'm finished if you are.

Capiche?

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02-14-2010, 10:15 PM
  #102
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Ya I am done, it's funny though how you take Opinion's as insults. I am done now.

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:15 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Silvesta View Post
LOL you know more hockey than me??? If you knew more hockey you would know Calgary Flames Game is DEFENSE FIRST. AND YOU WOULD KNOW Staal's D isn't that great in comparison to Bourque, Langkow or Dawes.
Staal is a greater presence defensively than any of them this season.

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02-14-2010, 10:16 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Silvesta View Post
Ya I am done, it's funny though how you take Opinion's as insults. I am done now.
Ok me 2. Lock this thread up and throw away the key.

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:31 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by aislephive View Post
I guarantee Staal gets more Selke votes this year than all of them combined.
Silvesta should get the Selke for being so defensive.

But you have to be good in that department to win it, and he is not.

I apologize on behalf of all level-headed Flames fans out there.

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02-14-2010, 10:53 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvesta View Post
LOL you know more hockey than me??? If you knew more hockey you would know Calgary Flames Game is DEFENSE FIRST. AND YOU WOULD KNOW Staal's D isn't that greatest in comparison to Bourque, Langkow or Daws.

I haven't been tamed, just funny how you guys get kicks for making fun of people on a thread... I bet that's your daily job being made fun of

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Old
02-14-2010, 11:12 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
Silvesta should get the Selke for being so defensive.

But you have to be good in that department to win it, and he is not.

I apologize on behalf of all level-headed Flames fans out there.
Ok. There champ

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Old
02-14-2010, 11:44 PM
  #108
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it's obvious that to pittsburgh, staal is amazing. But in reality, he's a solid 2nd line centre, and I don't know how much potential he has left since he's been overclouded by crosby and malkin in ice time, pp etc. Don't get me wrong, he's an elite talent and a great player, but as long as he's on the pens, he won't live up to his true potential. Staal needs to log big ice time and play in all situations to drastically improve IMO and he can't ATM.

Pen fans are really happy with him and they should be, but their over hyping staal. Its a fact cause the rest of the league and GM's don't see all the value pittsburgh does in staal.

I don't think its all Pen fans, but when someone says they wouldn't trade staal for brown, it somes it up within itself. And if you agree with the guy, I don't know what to say.

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02-14-2010, 11:53 PM
  #109
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Some posters need to realize that it is a lot easier to criticize trade proposals than make them or post constructively beneath them. This board wouldn't exist if no one got up the guts to post proposals.

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02-14-2010, 11:54 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by sessiroth View Post
it's obvious that to pittsburgh, staal is amazing. But in reality, he's a solid 2nd line centre, and I don't know how much potential he has left since he's been overclouded by crosby and malkin in ice time, pp etc. Don't get me wrong, he's an elite talent and a great player, but as long as he's on the pens, he won't live up to his true potential. Staal needs to log big ice time and play in all situations to drastically improve IMO and he can't ATM.

Pen fans are really happy with him and they should be, but their over hyping staal. Its a fact cause the rest of the league and GM's don't see all the value pittsburgh does in staal.

I don't think its all Pen fans, but when someone says they wouldn't trade staal for brown, it somes it up within itself. And if you agree with the guy, I don't know what to say.
I just do not understand how you can possibly know the value NHL GM's assign to Jordan Staal. Unless, you are in fact, an NHL GM. If you are an armchair GM like the rest of us on these boards, you simply cannot make that statement.

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Old
02-15-2010, 12:34 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by sessiroth View Post
I don't think its all Pen fans, but when someone says they wouldn't trade staal for brown, it somes it up within itself. And if you agree with the guy, I don't know what to say.
Wait, so Pens fans would be stupid to not trade Staal straight up for Dustin Brown? Are you kidding me?

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02-15-2010, 01:04 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by sessiroth View Post
it's obvious that to pittsburgh, staal is amazing. But in reality, he's a solid 2nd line centre, and I don't know how much potential he has left since he's been overclouded by crosby and malkin in ice time, pp etc. Don't get me wrong, he's an elite talent and a great player, but as long as he's on the pens, he won't live up to his true potential. Staal needs to log big ice time and play in all situations to drastically improve IMO and he can't ATM.

Pen fans are really happy with him and they should be, but their over hyping staal. Its a fact cause the rest of the league and GM's don't see all the value pittsburgh does in staal.

I don't think its all Pen fans, but when someone says they wouldn't trade staal for brown, it somes it up within itself. And if you agree with the guy, I don't know what to say.
Why don't you explain to the homer Pens fans why trading Staal for Brown is a no-brainer?

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Old
02-15-2010, 01:29 AM
  #113
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Wow, this tread made my day, awesome.


Funny how most people that make proposals for Staal usually finish off by telling everyone how he's overrated he is.
People that look at his stats call him overrated. People that actually watch him play don't.

Staal is not overrated and am I the only one that thinks that, at his age, being a 3rd line center for Pittsburgh is the perfect fit for him? He dosen't have to deal with the pressure of producing big numbers which allows him to concentrate on details (board work, stick positionning/active stick, game reading skills on the forecheck, neutral zone, support on puck possession, etc...) that will make him a more complete player at 25-26 years old.

No reason for Pittsburgh to move him unless Shero receives an offer he can't decline.

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Old
02-15-2010, 02:04 AM
  #114
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why would the reigning Cup champs make massive changes to their current lineup?

Staal is a HUGE part of that team and was a key part of their Cup run... as was Guerin, who's veteran presence was an addition which coincided with the team rocketing up the standings last year.

Teams like Pittsburgh don't deal key or core players which change the makeup of their team.

I also don't think that Bourque is nearly a good enough starting point as suggested by Flames fans... he's a UFA after this year, and has had back to back seasons where he's been sidelined by injuries... moving Staal, who again was a key player in their Cup run, for Bourque and a bunch of underachieving spare parts is the last thing a reigning Cup champ should be thinking of doing.

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Old
02-15-2010, 02:42 AM
  #115
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This thread has legitimately made me dumber for having read it. I award it no points and may god have mercy on its soul.

It's starting to get back to the point where every talks about how much they hate Staal because he is so overrated on these boards and that he is nothing more than a second line defensive center that he has actually started to get to be underrated haha.

But really, the OP is pretty far off. If you told me that Bourque was signed at 1.6M for 3 more seasons, then Bourque+ for Staal makes a little more sense. But Bourque being a free agent and being in line for a raise up to the 3-4M dollar level makes this pretty much a non starter. Staal at 4M is better than Bourque at 3-4M every day of the week and twice on Sunday. So I can understand where you're coming from just seeing that Bourque is a bargain now, but he won't be soon enough which makes this the wrong idea. The Flames right now (unless they're gonna give up Regehr +, which I actually believe to be an overpayment on their part) do not have the assets to get a Staal deal done.

By the way, whoever said that Staal wouldn't fit on the defensive minded Flames gets a major, major . Absolutely asinine statement. One of the top 3 defensive centers in the NHL not fitting on a defensive minded team is just a brainless comment.

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Old
02-15-2010, 03:30 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Silvesta View Post
LOL you know more hockey than me??? If you knew more hockey you would know Calgary Flames Game is DEFENSE FIRST. AND YOU WOULD KNOW Staal's D isn't that great in comparison to Bourque, Langkow or Dawes.

I haven't been tamed, just funny how you guys get kicks for making fun of people on a thread... I bet that's your daily job being made fun of
This literally means this guy has never in history once saw Staal play hockey.

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Old
02-15-2010, 05:48 AM
  #117
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Jordan Staal is a very very good player and I don't even like the Pens...
Staal might be a very good player but so is Bourque... I think you are underrating his game alot... the only big difference is Bourque is a winger

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02-15-2010, 07:56 AM
  #118
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Why don't you explain to the homer Pens fans why trading Staal for Brown is a no-brainer?
LOL, why give up a guy who still has a good potential? You think he's done Progressing? He's turning into a defensive gem already... just wait til he becomes a consistent scorer in the NHL. People will laugh all they want, but the guy is going to eventually become one of the best 2 way forwards in the game. And for what? 4 MILLION.

No doubt Brown is a good player, but the Pittsburgh Penguins aren't the Pittsburgh Penguins without Jordan Staal completing them.

Only way Staal is traded, is if he's forced out by cap reasons...

And as for this Calgary deal... let's just agree that even if the Pens wanted to trade Staal, Calgary does not have the pieces the Pens would want back in return.

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02-15-2010, 11:37 AM
  #119
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Staal might be a very good player but so is Bourque... I think you are underrating his game alot... the only big difference is Bourque is a winger
Bourque is a fine player, but his asset value in no way is near Staal's, and all the OP has offered to bridge that gap is a bunch of fringe assets that don't have much value either.

There are several BIG differences more so than Bourque being a winger. He is a UFA at the end of the year, while Staal is signed up to a longterm deal. Bourque is also in the prime of his career right now, at 28 and likely will play at that level for the next few years, but his upside beyond that is limited. Staal is still only 21 YO and has years to go before hitting his upside. If there is little difference in their game right now, then Staal has a big advantage as he's still got years of growth in him.

Staal is also a much more durable player. Bourque has missed several games in 4 straight seasons (including again this year) - that's a huge knock against his value overall. Staal has not missed a game in his career yet - playing now in his 4th consecutive healthy season.

And despite his age and lack of overall experience, Staal is already a veteran playoff performer. He was a HUGE part of their Cup run the last couple years now, winning it last year while playing a key shutdown role in the playoffs. He already has 49 games of playoff experience at 21 YO.

Bourque has played in 5 career playoff games, registering 1 point.

To suggest that their values are at all close is laughable at this point. And to suggest that the difference is made up by adding struggling or fringe players like Moss, Dawes/Boyd/Glencross (while adding Guerin as well), is ridiculous.

Pittsburgh is a top end Cup contender who just won the Cup with Staal playing a key role for them. What do you think they're going to give more value to - a guy who's been a key part of their Cup run already, who at only 21 has still got loads of development and improvement left, or a 28 YO winger with durability issues, who's had a total of 5 career games of playoff experience and is hitting UFA status after this year?

Bourque was a fantastic signing for the Flames... but his value to the Flames is much higher than it will be around the league, especially at this stage as he's hitting UFA status and the Flames are still trying to make the playoffs. And that value is in no way comparable to that of a young playoff veteran who plays a key role on their team already.

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02-15-2010, 11:39 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man View Post
Silvesta should get the Selke for being so defensive.

But you have to be good in that department to win it, and he is not.

I apologize on behalf of all level-headed Flames fans out there.
Don't worry man, I think every person on HF realizes that Silvesta is just a raging Troll and will ignore him from now on.

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02-15-2010, 11:43 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
Bourque is a fine player, but his asset value in no way is near Staal's, and all the OP has offered to bridge that gap is a bunch of fringe assets that don't have much value either.

There are several BIG differences more so than Bourque being a winger. He is a UFA at the end of the year, while Staal is signed up to a longterm deal. Bourque is also in the prime of his career right now, at 28 and likely will play at that level for the next few years, but his upside beyond that is limited. Staal is still only 21 YO and has years to go before hitting his upside. If there is little difference in their game right now, then Staal has a big advantage as he's still got years of growth in him.

Staal is also a much more durable player. Bourque has missed several games in 4 straight seasons (including again this year) - that's a huge knock against his value overall. Staal has not missed a game in his career yet - playing now in his 4th consecutive healthy season.

And despite his age and lack of overall experience, Staal is already a veteran playoff performer. He was a HUGE part of their Cup run the last couple years now, winning it last year while playing a key shutdown role in the playoffs. He already has 49 games of playoff experience at 21 YO.

Bourque has played in 5 career playoff games, registering 1 point.

To suggest that their values are at all close is laughable at this point. And to suggest that the difference is made up by adding struggling or fringe players like Moss, Dawes/Boyd/Glencross (while adding Guerin as well), is ridiculous.

Pittsburgh is a top end Cup contender who just won the Cup with Staal playing a key role for them. What do you think they're going to give more value to - a guy who's been a key part of their Cup run already, who at only 21 has still got loads of development and improvement left, or a 28 YO winger with durability issues, who's had a total of 5 career games of playoff experience and is hitting UFA status after this year?

Bourque was a fantastic signing for the Flames... but his value to the Flames is much higher than it will be around the league, especially at this stage as he's hitting UFA status and the Flames are still trying to make the playoffs. And that value is in no way comparable to that of a young playoff veteran who plays a key role on their team already.
This guy/girl knows what he's talking about.

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Old
02-15-2010, 12:15 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
Bourque is a fine player, but his asset value in no way is near Staal's, and all the OP has offered to bridge that gap is a bunch of fringe assets that don't have much value either.

There are several BIG differences more so than Bourque being a winger. He is a UFA at the end of the year, while Staal is signed up to a longterm deal. Bourque is also in the prime of his career right now, at 28 and likely will play at that level for the next few years, but his upside beyond that is limited. Staal is still only 21 YO and has years to go before hitting his upside. If there is little difference in their game right now, then Staal has a big advantage as he's still got years of growth in him.

Staal is also a much more durable player. Bourque has missed several games in 4 straight seasons (including again this year) - that's a huge knock against his value overall. Staal has not missed a game in his career yet - playing now in his 4th consecutive healthy season.

And despite his age and lack of overall experience, Staal is already a veteran playoff performer. He was a HUGE part of their Cup run the last couple years now, winning it last year while playing a key shutdown role in the playoffs. He already has 49 games of playoff experience at 21 YO.

Bourque has played in 5 career playoff games, registering 1 point.

To suggest that their values are at all close is laughable at this point. And to suggest that the difference is made up by adding struggling or fringe players like Moss, Dawes/Boyd/Glencross (while adding Guerin as well), is ridiculous.

Pittsburgh is a top end Cup contender who just won the Cup with Staal playing a key role for them. What do you think they're going to give more value to - a guy who's been a key part of their Cup run already, who at only 21 has still got loads of development and improvement left, or a 28 YO winger with durability issues, who's had a total of 5 career games of playoff experience and is hitting UFA status after this year?

Bourque was a fantastic signing for the Flames... but his value to the Flames is much higher than it will be around the league, especially at this stage as he's hitting UFA status and the Flames are still trying to make the playoffs. And that value is in no way comparable to that of a young playoff veteran who plays a key role on their team already.
I wasn't talking about their value... I'm talking about their games... I just said I would rather re-sign Bourque than trade for Staal and some idiot decided that was laughable so I was just explaining myself a bit

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02-15-2010, 12:17 PM
  #123
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This guy/girl knows what he's talking about.
you know other than the fact he completely missed the boat on the point I was making

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02-15-2010, 12:32 PM
  #124
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you know other than the fact he completely missed the boat on the point I was making
You read a poster saying Staal wasn't HF most overrated as Lolz Bourque sucks.

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02-15-2010, 12:32 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
I wasn't talking about their value... I'm talking about their games... I just said I would rather re-sign Bourque than trade for Staal and some idiot decided that was laughable so I was just explaining myself a bit
even outside of value, and just talking about their games - who do you think has more on-ice value to the Pens? A guy who has been a key part of their Cup winning run with 49 games of playoff experience, or a guy who's durability is questionable and has had a grand total of 5 career playoff games of experience where he didn't do much at all.

Even if you're just talking about their games, there is a huge difference between these two when it comes to playoff impact, and Staal still has time on his side as he's a long way from his prime.

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