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7-3 Lose No More Pain For 2 Weeks

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:53 PM
  #101
myteammytown
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
If I were Horcoff, I'd privately ask for a trade.
he can ask all he wants. IF he does want out, perhaps playing a tad better so that a team can be suckered into taking him


right now, with his injury history and recent (season+) point production, and his contract in tow, he aint going anywhere.

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02-14-2010, 10:55 PM
  #102
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How do you define underperformed? He has been a consistent 50+ point player for 4 years previous to this season playing against the other teams top players. Why isn't that factored in when evaluating him as a player? What is so special about this season that it takes precedent over the last 4 seasons?
He's the plum of the organization's anus. Been put in every single possible situation to succeed and thus has had his stats inflated and his performance enhanced. He is a phoney. Even before the lockout, Smyth was doing the heavy lifting. Now after the lockout, people claimed Hemsky was riding HIS coattails, and that Horc was the be all, end all standard for success and solid play on the team.

Without Hemsky, or anyone remotely skilled, he's been exposed. He is a 30-40 point player at best without anyone halfways offensively gifted, people have been claiming this for years, and now finally, when everything comes crashing down, he folds like a cheap tent and we see what lies beneath.

Listen... I'm sick of the Horc arguments/bashing as well, but I can't stand it how some people here still have the audacity to defend this guy when he absolutely does not deserve it. One of the single worst performances in a season by a player on the Oilers in years. YEARS! There is no reason to make excuses or try to defend him anymore.


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Old
02-14-2010, 10:56 PM
  #103
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One of the biggest differences with Horcoff is his skating, he used to be arguable the fastest skater on the team, now I'm questioning if he's faster that Potulny or Stortini...

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02-14-2010, 10:57 PM
  #104
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If this is Moreau last game as an Oilers.... i would.....i am....eh...

....you know, i am so happy couldn't put it into words.

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02-14-2010, 10:59 PM
  #105
Ol' Jase
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
How do you define underperformed? He has been a consistent 50+ point player for 4 years previous to this season playing against the other teams top players. Why isn't that factored in when evaluating him as a player? What is so special about this season that it takes precedent over the last 4 seasons?
That isn't necessarily true. The only season where Horcoff had the highest quality of competition rating on the club at his position was last season, which coincided with his offensive struggles at even strength.

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02-14-2010, 11:02 PM
  #106
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Everyone and their grandma knows the only reason he hit 50 points the last couple of seasons aside from his one All-Star season was due to mooching points off Hemsky.

You see exactly what he can create now by himself. And the exact same thing happened in 06-07 when Hemsky played with Sykora and Horcoff was forced onto the second line. He cannot do anything himself, he cannot deal with the pressure or any kind of expectation either. Folds like a cheap tent.
Thats interesting because I wasn't aware that Hemsky was an elite player. I didn't know that he was capable of making a centre better at faceoffs and better at checking the other teams best players and creating more than he gives up.
I think you have Hemsky confused with a Sedin.

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That's why being booed is probably the best thing for him, it may put him back into the mindset that's the underdog and that might put his mind into a different state, but right now, he can't do it himself. Being polite to him is actually killing whatevers left of his game IMO. He is that much of a mental case that he probably needs to be booed because otherwise he's just going to continue gripping his stick so damn tight like a kid who chokes in his elementary school play once the spotlight is on them.
Yup...because booing always makes a player play better.

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02-14-2010, 11:05 PM
  #107
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Thats interesting because I wasn't aware that Hemsky was an elite player. I didn't know that he was capable of making a centre better at faceoffs and better at checking the other teams best players and creating more than he gives up.
I think you have Hemsky confused with a Sedin.



Yup...because booing always makes a player play better.
Compared to Horcoff? Hemsky is friggin' Wayne Gretzky circa 1984. He can't do **** without Hemsky offensively. And that isn't limited to this season either, he was exposed for what he was in 06-07 when he had to play without Hemsky and couldn't do ****.

I'm just saying Horcoff is enough of a mental case, that he may just need people to boo him to get outside of his own head. He's his own worst enemy. He needs something else to focus on. The Oilers need to hire him a shrink. Some players do not respond to being babied and coddled.

The last time he played great for this team was when he was basically insulted by the Oilers front office. Some players sometimes need to be ripped ... they just do. They need it to get out of their own head space. The crap that Penner took last year is actually what Horcoff needs.

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02-14-2010, 11:05 PM
  #108
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Well...because neither of them were lucky enough to have a dumb ass GM hand them a pen and a ridiculous contract.
If Penner made 2M he would have never been booed last season... unfortunately thats just how some Oiler fans roll.
Yep exactly, it's not like he's Penner of last year who played like he didn't give a crap half the time, Horcoff plays hard and is obviously not a $5.5 mil/ys player, there are plenty of other guys who have been horrible this year also so why don't they get booed as hard, it's because Horcoff is being blamed for the contract that he was given, that's all on KLowe, can't blame Horcoff for taking it and as i said before, it's not like he's not trying, he's either still injured or is just not that good.
This is just my opinion so if people want to boo him, that's their perrogative, i just don't think that it's for the right reasons.

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02-14-2010, 11:05 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
That isn't necessarily true. The only season where Horcoff had the highest quality of competition rating on the club at his position was last season, which coincided with his offensive struggles at even strength.
Well it certainly wasn't Stoll or Reasoner that were getting all those tough minutes for the 3 years previous to last season.

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02-14-2010, 11:07 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Yep exactly, it's not like he's Penner of last year who played like he didn't give a crap half the time, Horcoff plays hard and is obviously not a $5.5 mil/ys player, there are plenty of other guys who have been horrible this year also so why don't they get booed as hard, it's because Horcoff is being blamed for the contract that he was given, that's all on KLowe, can't blame Horcoff for taking it and as i said before, it's not like he's not trying, he's either still injured or is just not that good.
This is just my opinion so if people want to boo him, that's their perrogative, i just don't think that it's for the right reasons.
Couldn't agree more.

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02-14-2010, 11:08 PM
  #111
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I just got off work... am I reading this right? Horcoff actually had 3 points and was a +2?

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02-14-2010, 11:09 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Compared to Horcoff? Hemsky is friggin' Wayne Gretzky circa 1984. He can't do **** without Hemsky offensively. And that isn't limited to this season either, he was exposed for what he was in 06-07 when he had to play without Hemsky and couldn't do ****.

I'm just saying Horcoff is enough of a mental case, that he may just need people to boo him to get outside of his own head. He's his own worst enemy. He needs something else to focus on. The Oilers need to hire him a shrink.

The last time he played great for this team was when he was basically insulted by the Oilers front office. Some players sometimes need to be ripped ... they just do. They need it to get out of their own head space.
Your posts are riddled with hyperbole. Surely you have something of substance to back up your arguments...no?

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02-14-2010, 11:11 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Your posts are riddled with hyperbole. Surely you have something of substance to back up your arguments...no?
Take a look at Horcoff's #'s with Hemsky and without. There is a big difference.

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02-14-2010, 11:12 PM
  #114
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Your posts are riddled with hyperbole. Surely you have something of substance to back up your arguments...no?
FACT: The last time Horcoff had a great season was the following the summer where the front office tried all summer long to replace him and then publicly said they were quite open to playing an 18-year-old rookie in his spot.

FACT: Every time this guy has signed a contract extension he has followed it up with a dramatic drop in production the following season.

FACT: His point production is abysmal without Hemsky, not just this season, but in you look back at other stretches where he has been forced to play with other players not named Hemsky, he is a 30-40 point player.

FACT: He played probably his best game in about 3 months tonight despite being booed. Hmmm.


It's not all hyperbole.

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02-14-2010, 11:12 PM
  #115
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Compared to Horcoff? Hemsky is friggin' Wayne Gretzky circa 1984. He can't do **** without Hemsky offensively. And that isn't limited to this season either, he was exposed for what he was in 06-07 when he had to play without Hemsky and couldn't do ****.

I'm just saying Horcoff is enough of a mental case, that he may just need people to boo him to get outside of his own head. He's his own worst enemy. He needs something else to focus on. The Oilers need to hire him a shrink. Some players do not respond to being babied and coddled.

The last time he played great for this team was when he was basically insulted by the Oilers front office. Some players sometimes need to be ripped ... they just do. They need it to get out of their own head space. The crap that Penner took last year is actually what Horcoff needs.
You keep saying that Horcoff is a mental case, i've never heard of such a thing so is there actual proof of this? Has he sucked on the ice? No question, i'm not denying that but i've never heard of him being a mental case off the ice.

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02-14-2010, 11:14 PM
  #116
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You keep saying that Horcoff is a mental case, i've never heard of such a thing so is there actual proof of this? Has he sucked on the ice? No question, i'm not denying that but i've never heard of him being a mental case off the ice.
He's a mental case in that he can't deal with pressure, even he has said himself that the contract he signed has gotten inside of his head.

I don't mean mental case in that he's a negative locker room guy or something, I mean it in the sense that he is his own worst enemy.

This is not the first time we've gone through this **** with Horcoff either. Same exact thing happened the year after he signed his first contract extension here and had to play without Hemsky for a while ... he was terrible then too.

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02-14-2010, 11:16 PM
  #117
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Horcoff would be boo'd if he was paid leagu minimum.
can I have some of what you're smoking please? If this were the case then half of the Oilers should be getting booed.

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No. People would be booing if he made league minimum. People hated Horcoff the day he made the Oilers and it hasn't changed.
see my post above....you are right out to lunch with this comment. I could post the thread that was made right after Horcoff signed where just about everyone that posted was ecstatic about his signing long term but I am too lazy to search it out again.

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02-14-2010, 11:16 PM
  #118
Ol' Jase
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Well it certainly wasn't Stoll or Reasoner that were getting all those tough minutes for the 3 years previous to last season.
Actually, according to behind the net, that's exactly who it was.

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02-14-2010, 11:17 PM
  #119
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I just got off work... am I reading this right? Horcoff actually had 3 points and was a +2?
And he was boo'd.

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02-14-2010, 11:18 PM
  #120
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And he was boo'd.
Haven't seen it... but it seems odd that they boo him he gets 3 points in a game where the Oilers only managed 3 goals...

Shouldn't they save that for for the typical 0 points, -2 night?

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02-14-2010, 11:19 PM
  #121
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Actually, according to behind the net, that's exactly who it was.
When you look at the best stretch the Oilers have played since 2006 it was that stretch where Horcoff was hurt and Stoll + Reasoner did a lot of the checking stuff.

Horcoff's role in this aspect of the Oilers game is grossly overrated.

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02-14-2010, 11:19 PM
  #122
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He's a mental case in that he can't deal with pressure, even he has said himself that the contract he signed has gotten inside of his head.

I don't mean mental case in that he's a negative locker room guy or something, I mean it in the sense that he is his own worst enemy.

This is not the first time we've gone through this **** with Horcoff either. Same exact thing happened the year after he signed his first contract extension here and had to play without Hemsky for a while ... he was terrible then too.
I see what you mean but don't you think a lot of the fault should fall on the idiot GM for not recognizing this and for signing him to these ridicuous sums?
If Horcoff was making 2-3M/yr would anybody boo him? No, so fans are not booing the player, they are booing the fact that he makes all that money and who offered him the contract? Can't blame the guy for taking the money, we all would have done the same thing.

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02-14-2010, 11:20 PM
  #123
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Haven't seen it... but it seems odd that they boo him he gets 3 points in a game where the Oilers only managed 3 goals...

Shouldn't they save that for for the typical 0 points, -2 night?
Maybe he can't perform that way when he's not booed. I just think he's just not a player that responds to politeness, he desperately needs something else to focus on.

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02-14-2010, 11:21 PM
  #124
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I see what you mean but don't you think a lot of the fault should fall on the idiot GM for not recognizing this and for signing him to these ridicuous sums?
If Horcoff was making 2-3M/yr would anybody boo him? No, so fans are not booing the player, they are booing the fact that he makes all that money and who offered him the contract? Can't blame the guy for taking the money, we all would have done the same thing.
Lowe should be fired, but it doesn't change the Horcoff situation. It is what it is. I'm saying actually Horcoff might be so ****ed up that he might actually play better with the boos.

I would not surprise me one bit. I think Quinn publicly ripping him (the way Sutter used to rip a lot of the Flames in public) might be the best possible thing that could happen to him. Horcoff needs to be in the role of the underdog ... he cannot handle being the guy you rely on to be a top point producer (ie: a star). He can't deal with being cast in that role and he turtles badly when he's expected to be that kind of player.

I'm just sayin' look at his history ... what was so different in 07-08 that he could perform sooooo much better? His shoulder was hurt even months before he had surgery that year too. I think the fire the Oilers lit under his ass that year by basically insulting him in the summer did the trick.

I don't think it's just random coincidence that he played way better that season.

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02-14-2010, 11:23 PM
  #125
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Maybe he can't perform that way when he's not booed. I just think he's just not a player that responds to politeness, he desperately needs something else to focus on.
He desperately needs to be another team. Or have someone else who can help him do his job on the same team.

New shoulder couldn't hurt, either.

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