HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Vokoun to OTT

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-15-2010, 04:23 PM
  #51
madpooh
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 791
vCash: 500
Leclaire has been living of his 8th overall pick. In his 5 years in the NHL he has had 1 good season. in the last 2 years he has a sv% of .890 and lower. While he may turn it around he is turning 27 this year and hasn't shown much improvement.

madpooh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:23 PM
  #52
Demko
Registered User
 
Demko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Delta, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 376
vCash: 500
Oh man, The original post of Vokoun AND a 2nd for LeClaire is absolutely laughable . All the points you have given are either false or irrelevant. LeClaire at NO point in his career has proven that he can be a #1 goalie. He had one "good" year 07-08 and it wasn't even THAT good (24-17). Your post about Brian Lee saying that he would make the original proposal is hilarious as well. Okay he is only 23, and yes he was a top 10 pick but again, that is irrelevant (Refer to Lundmark, Pyatt, Stefan). You said it best when you said "You have to do it at the NHL level". If you wanted Vokoun in your plans, then I'd start the offer off with Elliot, 1st and add or if FLA didn't want a goalie in return. Karlsson ++. Vokoun is a top 10 maybe top 5 goaltender in this league. He has the stats to prove it.

Demko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:23 PM
  #53
Bejamin1*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madpooh View Post
In Leclaire's last 5 years he has played over 35 games once. I think it is time to admit he is injury prone and its not just a freak accident every year.
Oh really?

2005-2006. No significant injuries. Backup goaltender. 33GP.
2006-2007. No significant injuries. Backup goaltender. 24GP.
2007-2008. No significant injuries. Starter. 54GP.
2008-2009. Serious Ankle Injury. Starter. 12GP.
2009-2010. Fluke head injury while on the bench. Split/Starter. 27GP and counting.

Really? That looks like one serious injury in his entire career and one fluke injury that is not indicative of any trend.

Bejamin1* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:25 PM
  #54
doubledown99
Registered User
 
doubledown99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure View Post
3.) ... Leclaire is a one year wonder so far, and until he finds his game for an entire season, he and his 3.8 million dollar contract is going no where.

Agreed.

No team is going to gamble on potential when it costs $3.8 million dollars.

The risk is too great...

doubledown99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:25 PM
  #55
wubwubwubwub
What, Me Worry?
 
wubwubwubwub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad29Johnson View Post
Nope it isn't. Washington and Pittsburgh are your 2 cases against that. Teams that constantly put up lots and lots of scoring can override a good goaltender. Defense helps too.
Not to mention Chicago and Detroit.

wubwubwubwub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:26 PM
  #56
Pure
Registered User
 
Pure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,955
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
By virtue of effect on the game, pure numbers, and the general talent level per amount of goaltenders you need per team, yes. Goaltending is the least important on-ice position to spend a lot of money on. You need a decent and consistent above-average goaltender, that's all. Meanwhile, if you don't have the depth of skaters you won't be winning a Cup even with an elite goaltender.

An elite goaltender like Vokoun is just gravy.
I think you need to provide a lot more proof than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conn_Smythe_Trophy

In terms of number of conn smythes, no position has been more important than goaltending. I'd argue, since you only need 1 starting goalie, its worth a lot more money to spend on that goalie than any other single player.

Pure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:28 PM
  #57
Highbrow
Alfie, Alfie, Alfie!
 
Highbrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,709
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad29Johnson View Post
Nope it isn't. Washington and Pittsburgh are your 2 cases against that. Teams that constantly put up lots and lots of scoring can override a good goaltender. Defense helps too.
It isn't for some teams, it is for others. It's an easier (and stronger) argument to make in the regular season than in the playoffs. The Stanley Cup champions differ every year in team design and there's no one recipe to win it all. Sometimes the goaltender is the most important player, sometimes the D are, and sometimes the offence is.

Highbrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:28 PM
  #58
Pure
Registered User
 
Pure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,955
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
Oh really?

2005-2006. No significant injuries. Backup goaltender. 33GP.
2006-2007. No significant injuries. Backup goaltender. 24GP.
2007-2008. No significant injuries. Starter. 54GP.
2008-2009. Serious Ankle Injury. Starter. 12GP.
2009-2010. Fluke head injury while on the bench. Split/Starter. 27GP and counting.

Really? That looks like one serious injury in his entire career and one fluke injury that is not indicative of any trend.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=2572

29-DEC-06 KNEE SURGERY, MID-FEBRUARY.

09-APR-07 MISSED THE LAST 22 GAMES OF THE REGULAR SEASON (LEFT KNEE INJURY).

03-APR-08 MISSED 9 GAMES (HEAD INJURY).

12-APR-09 MISSED THE LAST 48 GAMES OF THE REGULAR SEASON (ANKLE INJURY).

23-DEC-09 MISSED 16 GAMES (BROKEN JAW).

03-FEB-10 MISSED 9 GAMES (CONCUSSION).

Pure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:28 PM
  #59
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure View Post
I think you need to provide a lot more proof than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conn_Smythe_Trophy

In terms of number of conn smythes, no position has been more important than goaltending. I'd argue, since you only need 1 starting goalie, its worth a lot more money to spend on that goalie than any other single player.
Trophies, like stats, are deceptive.

It's alright. You don't have to agree with me. Just respect my opinions and be aware that I've put in my paces researching this subject.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:30 PM
  #60
Bejamin1*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKesler17 View Post
Oh man, The original post of Vokoun AND a 2nd for LeClaire is absolutely laughable . All the points you have given are either false or irrelevant. LeClaire at NO point in his career has proven that he can be a #1 goalie. He had one "good" year 07-08 and it wasn't even THAT good (24-17). Your post about Brian Lee saying that he would make the original proposal is hilarious as well. Okay he is only 23, and yes he was a top 10 pick but again, that is irrelevant (Refer to Lundmark, Pyatt, Stefan). You said it best when you said "You have to do it at the NHL level". If you wanted Vokoun in your plans, then I'd start the offer off with Elliot, 1st and add or if FLA didn't want a goalie in return. Karlsson ++. Vokoun is a top 10 maybe top 5 goaltender in this league. He has the stats to prove it.
Lee's been given 71 games at the NHL level. He's a +, he's got 4 goals, and 17 points. He's split that time in a five-six or top four role. The only reason he's in the AHL is his 1.2M contract. He has easily proved he's got the stuff to play in the NHL and likely be a top four guy as he matures. He's got the size, he skates extremely well, he has a good first pass, and a decent shot. He's got all the tools and a decent amount of NHL experience during which he's achieved completely reasonable success.

You pull a stat as dumb as 24-17 for a terrible Bluejackets team. Fully ignoring the fact that he has a .919 save percentage and a 2.25 GAA on one of the worst teams in the league. Those are elite numbers on any team. Those numbers are INSANE on a team that isn't competitive. Saying Leclaire is not capable of being an elite goaltender just makes you sound silly. He's already done it at the NHL level and he's 26 years old.

Bejamin1* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:31 PM
  #61
Rattrick
Registered User
 
Rattrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 12,894
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rattrick
Logic fail.

Florida is going to get maximum value for their assets and Leclaire is nowhere near maximum value. We have Markstrom in the system who has 10x the potential of Leclaire so this trade makes zero sense for Florida.

If we trade Vokoun, it's for 1st round picks and top level prospects.

THEN, you want the Panthers to ADD a 2nd round pick. Dude, you're a joke.

Rattrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:34 PM
  #62
dbhislife
Registered User
 
dbhislife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
To OTT:
Vokoun (5.7M) + 2010 2nd Round Pick

To FLA:
Leclaire (3.8M)

Logic:
Vokoun is too old to be around when FLA is actually ready to contend. The Sens have not had any sort of true consistency from Leclaire or Elliot this year. It's a win-now deal for Ottawa. Vokoun is having a great year and his stability could be a great boost to the Sens come playoff time.

Expect the Sens would have to try and flip Vokoun in the summer because of his cap hit if they were to do this deal.

Also of note is that Ottawa would potentially throw Lee into that deal. Considering the way the franchise has treated Lee there is a good chance he has no future with the organization despite playing very well on both call-ups this year.
this just became the worst proposal I ever saw on hfboards...and I am a regular.


It would have to at least be Leclaire + for Tvo....not the other way around.


PS though....the Panthers wouldn't want a goalie back though in the trade whose under performing as we have Clemmy. We would want elliot or just no goalie at all

dbhislife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:34 PM
  #63
madpooh
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure View Post
I think you need to provide a lot more proof than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conn_Smythe_Trophy

In terms of number of conn smythes, no position has been more important than goaltending. I'd argue, since you only need 1 starting goalie, its worth a lot more money to spend on that goalie than any other single player.
In the last 20 years only 4 goalies have won the award and only 1 was elite (Roy). You can win the cup with a good solid goalie (Osgood, Giguere, Ward, Khabibulin...)

Yes an elite goalie can take a team farther than it should but its not all that matters.

madpooh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:35 PM
  #64
Highbrow
Alfie, Alfie, Alfie!
 
Highbrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,709
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Logic fail.

Florida is going to get maximum value for their assets and Leclaire is nowhere near maximum value. We have Markstrom in the system who has 10x the potential of Leclaire so this trade makes zero sense for Florida.

If we trade Vokoun, it's for 1st round picks and top level prospects.
Logic fail number two.

If Leclaire's potential has already peaked, it would mean that at full potential, he has the ability to win 9 shutouts/year and put up impressive numbers in all other statistics. If Markstrom has the potential to do that 10 years in a row... I'll... I'll eat my Sens jersey!

Highbrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:36 PM
  #65
FolignoQuantumLeap
A mad Mup
 
FolignoQuantumLeap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: A Blue Box
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,942
vCash: 500
Sooo awful.

FolignoQuantumLeap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:38 PM
  #66
dbhislife
Registered User
 
dbhislife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
Quite frankly guys who have the potential to be a true #1 Goaltender in this league do not grow on trees. Leclaire is one of those guys. There's no question about that.

Who exactly is Florida's goaltender going to be 3 years from now or hell one year from now when Vokoun signs somewhere else after next year because he doesn't want to play for a bottom-feeder? If Leclaire has even 1 or 2 good years over the 8-9 he has left in the league the deal is a wash for both teams.

It's possible to find a better deal for Vokoun especially next year at the deadline but after they trade him they have no goaltender. Also what if they are in contention next year? Then they risk letting him walk for nothing like Jay-Bo.
Jacob Markstrom will be our goalie when Tvo walks after next year....look him up.


You claim poster know nothing about hockey, and then post a statement like that. HE'S THE BEST GOALIE PROSPECT IN THE WORLD! He single-handedly kept Brynas in the SEL because, up until he stepped in last year, they were on track to be kicked out of the league.


Sure he may not pan out, but to claim that we have nothing in line after Tvo and thus would make a deal as ****** as this one...is insane

dbhislife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:40 PM
  #67
Rattrick
Registered User
 
Rattrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 12,894
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rattrick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senataur View Post
Logic fail number two.

If Leclaire's potential has already peaked, it would mean that at full potential, he has the ability to win 9 shutouts/year and put up impressive numbers in all other statistics. If Markstrom has the potential to do that 10 years in a row... I'll... I'll eat my Sens jersey!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exaggeration

Fact: Florida ***** on the thought of trading for Leclaire.... And, the value sucks.

Rattrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:41 PM
  #68
Chad29Johnson
Registered User
 
Chad29Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhislife View Post
this just became the worst proposal I ever saw on hfboards...and I am a regular.


It would have to at least be Leclaire + for Tvo....not the other way around.


PS though....the Panthers wouldn't want a goalie back though in the trade whose under performing as we have Clemmy. We would want elliot or just no goalie at all
Indeed, but I do think the Panthers are looking for a goalie if they trade Tvo. They are high on Markstrom but it helps to have a plan b.

Chad29Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:41 PM
  #69
Highbrow
Alfie, Alfie, Alfie!
 
Highbrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,709
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exaggeration

Fact: Florida ***** on the thought of trading for Leclaire.... And, the value sucks.
I know, hah, I'm just giving ya a hard time. Fans gotta defend their goalies sometimes!

Highbrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:42 PM
  #70
dbhislife
Registered User
 
dbhislife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
1. Leclaire had one serious injury. His ankle which is now fully healed. He had a freak accident from being hit by a puck while sitting as a backup. Could happen to anyone. It is however clear that his major health issues with his ankle are behind him.

2. Ottawa will finish 2nd or 3rd in the East. They are competitive this year. In case you don't watch any hockey, which clearly you don't.

3. Sexton sent out a memo to his fans basically saying he's going to blow up the team. That means Vokoun as 33 won't likely be around by the time the rebuild makes them competitive.

4. Lee makes it much better. He's 23 and a top 10 pick. He's been excellent on both call-ups this year. He at minimum will be 5th-6th defender in this league, and there's a good chance he's a top four guy.

5. Leclaire may be having a bad year now. He is in his first year back from a serious injury, and he had a horrible freak injury with a puck to the head. However he was excellent at the beginning of the year. He has in typical fashion made the big saves when called upon. He has had consistency issues with soft goals but those are the easiest things to fix. He is also only 26 and will be around for 6-7 years after Vokoun is 36-37 retired and collecting dust.

6. Goaltender prospect don't make me laugh. You mean the same guy who gets lit up at the World Jr's every year? Justin Pogge was a "great" goaltender prospect. Look how well that turned out. Prospects are meaningless. You have to do it at the NHL level. Leclaire has had true success as a #1 goaltender at the NHL level and clearly has the skill-set.

7. Leclaire makes 3.8M as opposed to 5.7M. He will also be forced to re-sign cheaply at the end of next year for 2.0-2.5M. The reason being he has had too many recent injuries to demand serious money at his position. Despite the fact that his health is basically back.
I just wanted to quote this for when Ottawa finishes top 3 in the eAst this year

dbhislife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:43 PM
  #71
Bejamin1*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=2572

29-DEC-06 KNEE SURGERY, MID-FEBRUARY.

09-APR-07 MISSED THE LAST 22 GAMES OF THE REGULAR SEASON (LEFT KNEE INJURY).

03-APR-08 MISSED 9 GAMES (HEAD INJURY).

12-APR-09 MISSED THE LAST 48 GAMES OF THE REGULAR SEASON (ANKLE INJURY).

23-DEC-09 MISSED 16 GAMES (BROKEN JAW).

03-FEB-10 MISSED 9 GAMES (CONCUSSION).
Those stats basically read to show that he's had two significant injuries in his career. One knee, and one ankle. One of which occurred while he was a back-up goaltender. His knee and ankle issues are well behind him. His health would be 100% this year if he hadn't taken a fluke puck to the face while sitting on the bench so that's hardly indicative of continuing an injury trend. The Sens would never have traded a top six forward for him if his knee or ankle health were at all in question.

There are tons of consistently healthy players in the league with a couple significant injuries or injury prone periods of their careers.

Spezza has had two significant knee injuries in his career. Does that make him injury prone?

Havlat had 2-3 really awful health years because his shoulder. He was relatively healthy before that, and has now been almost 100% healthy after it.

Alfredsson used to be considered injury prone. He's had a couple major injuries in his career.

In fact there is hardly a player in this league who hasn't had a few significant injuries. Leclaire's knee and ankle problems are over. Those were the concern and those concerns are gone and have not repeated themselves this year. A fluke head injury is nothing to worry about.

Bejamin1* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:44 PM
  #72
SpezDispenser
Registered User
 
SpezDispenser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 14,873
vCash: 500
I'll admit that this proposal is way off base. I wouldn't do that as Florida unless Foligno and a 1st was also coming as well as Leclaire. And even then...

SpezDispenser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:48 PM
  #73
Pure
Registered User
 
Pure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,955
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejamin1 View Post
Those stats basically read to show that he's had two significant injuries in his career. One knee, and one ankle. One of which occurred while he was a back-up goaltender. His knee and ankle issues are well behind him. His health would be 100% this year if he hadn't taken a fluke puck to the face while sitting on the bench so that's hardly indicative of continuing an injury trend. The Sens would never have traded a top six forward for him if his knee or ankle health were at all in question.

There are tons of consistently healthy players in the league with a couple significant injuries or injury prone periods of their careers.

Spezza has had two significant knee injuries in his career. Does that make him injury prone?

Havlat had 2-3 really awful health years because his shoulder. He was relatively healthy before that, and has now been almost 100% healthy after it.

Alfredsson used to be considered injury prone. He's had a couple major injuries in his career.

In fact there is hardly a player in this league who hasn't had a few significant injuries. Leclaire's knee and ankle problems are over. Those were the concern and those concerns are gone and have not repeated themselves this year. A fluke head injury is nothing to worry about.
Lets see Leclaire play a full season before we're ready to declare him anything. A GM's not going to pay 3.8 mill just cause Bejamin1 said Leclaire's injuries are over.

Pure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:50 PM
  #74
RA9
Registered User
 
RA9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,142
vCash: 500
Elliots been doing fine for the Sens..

RA9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2010, 04:50 PM
  #75
dbhislife
Registered User
 
dbhislife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=2572

29-DEC-06 KNEE SURGERY, MID-FEBRUARY.

09-APR-07 MISSED THE LAST 22 GAMES OF THE REGULAR SEASON (LEFT KNEE INJURY).

03-APR-08 MISSED 9 GAMES (HEAD INJURY).

12-APR-09 MISSED THE LAST 48 GAMES OF THE REGULAR SEASON (ANKLE INJURY).

23-DEC-09 MISSED 16 GAMES (BROKEN JAW).

03-FEB-10 MISSED 9 GAMES (CONCUSSION).
I want to see this kids response to this....priceless.



BUT HES ONLY HAD ONE INJURY AND ONE FREAK ACCIDENT!!!!

dbhislife is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.