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Sather will look to improve Rangers at deadline

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Old
02-18-2010, 09:00 PM
  #301
Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Uhhh, that's a little presumptive. Many intelligent fans disagree. Including me.
and me. thought it depends on what one means by firesale. i dont want them to be full on sellers, nor do i want them to be full on buyers. i want them to get BETTER.

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02-19-2010, 03:46 AM
  #302
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trade proposal

I put this in here instead of making a proposal thread and treat this is a trade proposal/speculation thread.

To NYR

D Souray 5.4M (2 more years)
D Grebeshkov 3.15M (RFA)
2010 4th rd pick

To EDM

D Roszival 5m (2 more years)
D Girardi 1.55M (RFA)
G Valiquette 0.725M (UFA)
2010 2nd rd pick

thoughts? opinions?

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Old
02-19-2010, 04:08 AM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
I put this in here instead of making a proposal thread and treat this is a trade proposal/speculation thread.

To NYR

D Souray 5.4M (2 more years)
D Grebeshkov 3.15M (RFA)
2010 4th rd pick

To EDM

D Roszival 5m (2 more years)
D Girardi 1.55M (RFA)
G Valiquette 0.725M (UFA)
2010 2nd rd pick

thoughts? opinions?
my only problem with this deal is that right now Rozsival is our 2nd best defenseman, take him out of the lineup, and don't insert Souray till the end of March, and the Rangers might be out of it before Souray even gets a chance to suit up.

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02-19-2010, 04:15 AM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
my only problem with this deal is that right now Rozsival is our 2nd best defenseman, take him out of the lineup, and don't insert Souray till the end of March, and the Rangers might be out of it before Souray even gets a chance to suit up.
Souray is expecting to play by March 15th at the latest, he stated in an interview not too long ago, i'll try to find the article n give you the link.

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02-19-2010, 04:25 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
Souray is expecting to play by March 15th at the latest, he stated in an interview not too long ago, i'll try to find the article n give you the link.
strange...i thought he was going to be ready at the end of march...

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02-19-2010, 04:26 AM
  #306
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Brooks says 3rd week of March....so we were both wrong.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...Wnips6Wbp7N0iJ

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Old
02-19-2010, 04:26 AM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
I put this in here instead of making a proposal thread and treat this is a trade proposal/speculation thread.

To NYR

D Souray 5.4M (2 more years)
D Grebeshkov 3.15M (RFA)
2010 4th rd pick

To EDM

D Roszival 5m (2 more years)
D Girardi 1.55M (RFA)
G Valiquette 0.725M (UFA)
2010 2nd rd pick

thoughts? opinions?
I think Sather would try and move Girardi and Rozsival separately, and target forwards since we're shallow up front. The slight upgrade we make defensively with this trade won't really compensate our real needs. Rangers also don't have a 3rd round pick this season, so I doubt Sather moves the 2nd.

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02-19-2010, 04:30 AM
  #308
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if Souray comes back on the 22nd, that would be 10 games he would miss. meaning we would have to play with like Corey Potter instead of Rozsival for those 10 games since Sauer and Sanguinetti are hurt...assuming theyve given up on Heikkinen.

If that's the case, I could see the Rangers getting absolutely annihilated during that stretch where they face a team in the playoffs for 7 out of those 10 games..its just a really really tough stretch to play down a good defenseman.

im not sure I would move Rozsival at the deadline...I would probably wait till the draft.

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Old
02-19-2010, 04:42 AM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Brooks says 3rd week of March....so we were both wrong.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...Wnips6Wbp7N0iJ
it was around feb 5th when he had the surgery so go 5-6weeks or 35-42days from there.

That puts him at March 12th-20th so we're all in the same ball park

edit: how would you like to tweak the deal?

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02-19-2010, 05:52 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Uhhh, that's a little presumptive. Many intelligent fans disagree. Including me.

So I don't know very much about basketball and even less about the Knicks but it seems like what they have right now is cap space. (And they have a good coach) So if Lebron stays in Cleveland and DWade stays in Miami and Amare stays in Phoenix, how are they in better shape? I remember that Orlando tried this about 10 years ago. They signed Grant Hill, who promptly got hurt and couldn't get Tim Duncan to sign. And they continued to stink. Hope it works out better for the Knicks (for all of your sakes) but don't count on it. They seem to trade away a lot of draft choices. And they don't seem to be the only team with the same idea about cap space. The chatter here in Phoenix today is that D'Antoni doesn't want Amare and he wants to go to Miami to play with his buddy Wade. Miami apparently has as much or more cap space available as the Knicks.
Going off topic, that's not correct. According to every report I've read, the Knicks now have the most available cap space of anyone in the NBA after yesterday's deals. They can bring in two max free agents. It's also not just about 2010. Carmelo Anthony, NY native, and Chris Paul are both free agents that summer, so conceivably, the Knicks could sign, one free agent in 2010, and sign another in 2011, where they will still have enough cap space, (as long as they don't spend it on lesser free agents), as Eddy Curry's contract comes off the books.

Besides, basketball is even more about building around a few elite players than hockey is.


Last edited by jas: 02-19-2010 at 10:44 AM.
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Old
02-19-2010, 05:53 AM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
I put this in here instead of making a proposal thread and treat this is a trade proposal/speculation thread.

To NYR

D Souray 5.4M (2 more years)
D Grebeshkov 3.15M (RFA)
2010 4th rd pick

To EDM

D Roszival 5m (2 more years)
D Girardi 1.55M (RFA)
G Valiquette 0.725M (UFA)
2010 2nd rd pick

thoughts? opinions?
Really not seeing the point of such a deal, especially bringing back Grebeshkov and giving up a 2nd round pick. Pass.

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Old
02-19-2010, 08:29 AM
  #312
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Anyone else think this news about Heikkinen means he's a goner?

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Old
02-24-2010, 08:51 AM
  #313
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Didnt want to create another thread about Slats so i figured I'd put this tidbit here.

Everyone should watch this: http://www.rmpbs.org/content/index.c...-Michael-Duffy

Click the link on the right with Drew Careys face and go to 3:25...


He's actually part owner of the Seattle Sounders FC Soccer team in the MLS league. I found his thoughts (and actions) very interesting on the way they 'elect' General Managers of the team.

Quote:
The Sounders FC Alliance was established at the request of minority owner Drew Carey. Based on the fan association at FC Barcelona, members of the Alliance have the ability to vote on the removal of the General Manager and on other team decisions. Season ticket holders become automatic members while non-season ticket holders may buy into the Alliance for a fee. Membership benefits include voting privileges, invitation to an annual meeting and other team perks. Members can also be elected to the Sounders FC Alliance Council by receiving at least 25 nominations from other members annually. The first vote on the General Manager is scheduled to be held in November of 2012 following Seattle's third season.[52] Drew Carey is the chairman of the Sounders FC Alliance.
It was fascinating to think what it would be like if a team like the Rangers would adopt such a privilege. After all, the paying season subscribers have a stock in the team to certain degree. It makes sense. Carey said, we elect Presidents, Governors and Mayors and we dont even know what they are doing half the time. The majority of the fans who are passionate about sports are more interested in the day to day business operations of a sports franchise, then they are about politics and going to town hall meetings. So why not have this right?

In this town we would probably have a GM ousted every 4 years, but if the job isnt getting done - then there must be some accountability like in the real world. It also allows the fans to do the dirty work for a guy like Dolan (who has no clue what hes doing) who is extremely over-loyal to those hes hired. It would also stop the constant nepotism that a guy like Sather so stealthly injects into this franchise.

Just food for thought. Of course this will NEVER happen, but its nice to know its happening somewhere. And for those of you who dont think it would work in a big market - it already does for FC Barcelona, one of the largest sports franchises in the world (much bigger than the Rangers). If it works there it can work anywhere. The dynamics of a salary cap might prevent a new GM from doing what he wants though, considering they would be adopting bad contracts and players from the previous GM, but that happens anyway and 4 years should be enough time to do things necessary to get the fans on their side.

Nevertheless, a very refreshing interview to hear and something that makes sense to me and i'm sure the thousands of season subscribers who shell out enormous amounts of hard earned money to watch a piss poor club stumble through year after year because of an inept General Manager rolling the dice every chance he gets.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 02-24-2010 at 09:01 AM.
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Old
02-24-2010, 08:57 AM
  #314
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Mark my words. Brandon Dubinsky will be traded at the deadline. Sather is shipping him out for the mere fact that Dubi was a hold-out.

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02-24-2010, 08:58 AM
  #315
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Just to ask the question...since I've been out of the loop for a few days now...

Why are people wanting to trade Rozy for Souray?

Sure Souray is better offensively but Rozy is leaps and bounds better in his own zone. Also they have the same contract and Rozy is actually about half a mil cheaper...

Rozy may be very expensive...but honestly...most solid 2 or 3 defenseman are expensive.

Is this just a case of Rangers fans wanting sometime to happen just for the sake of it happening?

The only way I want Souray is if Redden is going back in the other direction. I would be completely ok with that. Having Souray and DZ to quarterback our two powerplay units would be nice. But not at the lost of Rozy who has been maybe our best d-man lately (yes even better than Staal).

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02-24-2010, 08:59 AM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
Mark my words. Brandon Dubinsky will be traded at the deadline. Sather is shipping him out for the mere fact that Dubi was a hold-out.
Do you have a source? Or are you just speculating?

Glen wouldn't trade him for Heatley, what makes you think he will give Dubi up for someone like Ponikarovsky (sp?) or Souray?

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02-24-2010, 09:16 AM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Didnt want to create another thread about Slats so i figured I'd put this tidbit here.

Everyone should watch this: http://www.rmpbs.org/content/index.c...-Michael-Duffy

Click the link on the right with Drew Careys face and go to 3:25...


He's actually part owner of the Seattle Sounders FC Soccer team in the MLS league. I found his thoughts (and actions) very interesting on the way they 'elect' General Managers of the team.



It was fascinating to think what it would be like if a team like the Rangers would adopt such a privilege. After all, the paying season subscribers have a stock in the team to certain degree. It makes sense. Carey said, we elect Presidents, Governors and Mayors and we dont even know what they are doing half the time. The majority of the fans who are passionate about sports are more interested in the day to day business operations of a sports franchise, then they are about politics and going to town hall meetings. So why not have this right?

In this town we would probably have a GM ousted every 4 years, but if the job isnt getting done - then there must be some accountability like in the real world. It also allows the fans to do the dirty work for a guy like Dolan (who has no clue what hes doing) who is extremely over-loyal to those hes hired. It would also stop the constant nepotism that a guy like Sather so stealthly injects into this franchise.

Just food for thought. Of course this will NEVER happen, but its nice to know its happening somewhere. And for those of you who dont think it would work in a big market - it already does for FC Barcelona, one of the largest sports franchises in the world (much bigger than the Rangers). If it works there it can work anywhere. The dynamics of a salary cap might prevent a new GM from doing what he wants though, considering they would be adopting bad contracts and players from the previous GM, but that happens anyway and 4 years should be enough time to do things necessary to get the fans on their side.

Nevertheless, a very refreshing interview to hear and something that makes sense to me and i'm sure the thousands of season subscribers who shell out enormous amounts of hard earned money to watch a piss poor club stumble through year after year because of an inept General Manager rolling the dice every chance he gets.
Very interesting.

I remember suggesting this a long time ago -- when there was talk about teams bolting from Canada. Suggesting that looking into the Barcelona model might be one way to save those franchises. In Europe, most teams were owned like that. Now some have gone public, but most are still in some way own by the fans.

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02-24-2010, 09:23 AM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
Mark my words. Brandon Dubinsky will be traded at the deadline. Sather is shipping him out for the mere fact that Dubi was a hold-out.
I am thinking along the same lines. We'll have to see. Same thing for Heikkinen...you do not challenge Sather.

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02-24-2010, 09:42 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Glen wouldn't trade him for Heatley, what makes you think he will give Dubi up for someone like Ponikarovsky (sp?) or Souray?
Dubi wasnt really a hold out when Heatley got traded. I mean technically I guess he was but it had not become the dragged out drama of him missing camp.

My understanding is Sather believed he had Heatley for a package that included Dubinsky but Ottawa tried to get another piece included ( Callahan?) at the last minute and Sather said no.

GMs seldom get credit for the deals they TURN DOWN.

As much as I think Dubis holdout pissed everyone off, I dont think Slats is going to just give him away easily. Still, Sather now has first hand knowledge of what Dubi and his agent are like in negotiations. If the rumored $$ Dubi was initially asking for is true he won't be around anyway once he hits the open market.

Yes he has been important to the team, but the team struggles to score when Gabby is not on the ice.

Dubi has been a very average player for the most part. Average players who are pains in the ass when contract time comes up don't stick around. GMs start looking around and other options pop up.

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02-24-2010, 09:43 AM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
Mark my words. Brandon Dubinsky will be traded at the deadline. Sather is shipping him out for the mere fact that Dubi was a hold-out.
I seriously doubt Sather holds a grudge over the holdout, even if some posters on this forum do. Why should he? He got Dubinsky at the price he wanted.

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02-24-2010, 09:48 AM
  #321
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Sather should only acquire/sign/whatever Tore Vikingstad. Ve vill be unstoppable!

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02-24-2010, 09:50 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Very interesting.

I remember suggesting this a long time ago -- when there was talk about teams bolting from Canada. Suggesting that looking into the Barcelona model might be one way to save those franchises. In Europe, most teams were owned like that. Now some have gone public, but most are still in some way own by the fans.
I had an inkling that FC was "run" by the fans, but i didnt know until that interview that a sports franchise in America was too. When you listen to Carey you get the impression that its just a completely different experience for the fans then it is for the fans for a team like the Rangers. It just seems otherworldly compared to what we have to go through here, sitting pretty much powerless and forming "Fire Sather" rallies were only 200 people will attend. It just leaves the fans in a negative connotation towards management if the team consistently fails.

Its overwhelmingly frustrating to have to sit here without even the remote dream of having a say in the team management, because the ownership and management of this team (and all the other major sports franchises) have total control over the decision making.

I think it would lend a whole new dynamic to the emotional investment a fan has in a team if they were aloud to participate in the voting of team management. In the end, its still the ultimate decsion of the General Manager, but the fans would feel as if they are actually a part of the team and i think that would work wonders for not only a team like the Rangers but teams like the Coyotes and Thrashers who could use more support. The morale gained from such a privilege might entice more fans to buy tickets who knows.

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02-24-2010, 10:31 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
My understanding is Sather believed he had Heatley for a package that included Dubinsky but Ottawa tried to get another piece included ( Callahan?) at the last minute and Sather said no.
Not sure where you got that idea, since pretty much everyone reported that Dubi was the deal breaker.

http://communities.canada.com/edmont...r-heatley.aspx

Quote:
But Pierre LeBrun of ESPN reports: A Rangers source said Thursday the team did make "a competitive offer," although a Senators source insists it wasn't as good as Edmonton's three-player package, saying, "We couldn't even get a 13-goal scorer in the deal."

The only 13-goal scorer on the Rangers is Brandon Dubinsky, a tough-checking center, a good player, but if this report is to be believed the Rangers weren't willing to move him, perhaps because the Rangers weren't desperate.
Quote:
Dubi has been a very average player for the most part. Average players who are pains in the ass when contract time comes up don't stick around. GMs start looking around and other options pop up.
Average? What exactly were you expecting from him?

He's got 31 points in 49 games, good for 3rd best ppg average on the team. Over 82 games, that would be 51-52 points. He leads the team in plus/minus at +11. He leads the team in faceoff % at 52.7%.

His hits per game are down this year, so he could stand to improve there, but he only had 24 blocks all of last year. This year he has 29 in 49 games.

He's still only 23 and his cap hit is only 1.85 mil.

I think too many fans have set their expectations for Dubinsky way too high, and are now disappointed that he hasn't yet met those expectations. Dubinsky has more than lived up to his contract to this point. He's the least of our problems and one of the last players we should be looking to trade.

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02-24-2010, 10:49 AM
  #324
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Not sure where you got that idea, since pretty much everyone reported that Dubi was the deal breaker.

http://communities.canada.com/edmont...r-heatley.aspx





Average? What exactly were you expecting from him?

He's got 31 points in 49 games, good for 3rd best ppg average on the team. Over 82 games, that would be 51-52 points. He leads the team in plus/minus at +11. He leads the team in faceoff % at 52.7%.

His hits per game are down this year, so he could stand to improve there, but he only had 24 blocks all of last year. This year he has 29 in 49 games.

He's still only 23 and his cap hit is only 1.85 mil.

I think too many fans have set their expectations for Dubinsky way too high, and are now disappointed that he hasn't yet met those expectations. Dubinsky has more than lived up to his contract to this point. He's the least of our problems and one of the last players we should be looking to trade.
From what I read there, it doesn't mean that at all. It just means that Sather wasn't willing to part with anything valuable, not even a 13 goal scorer. Meaning that even if Ottawa wanted more, Sather wasn't even willing to give up that.

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02-24-2010, 10:50 AM
  #325
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After listening to Gordie talk about Dubinsky being a banafide 1st line center, and then taking into consideration Tortorella's comments about building around the a core group of players I would find it hard to believe that Dubi is going anywhere for a player like Cogliano, or Poni. If the return is of a Nathan Horton caliber or higher than I could see the trade happening.

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