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Sather will look to improve Rangers at deadline

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Old
02-24-2010, 03:51 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Why would Girardi + Lisin be worth more than just Girardi?

Throwing in a napkin when trading in a car isn't going to get you a better car.
Lisin is at least worth a vanity stick shift knob.

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02-24-2010, 09:55 PM
  #352
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Why would Girardi + Lisin be worth more than just Girardi?

Throwing in a napkin when trading in a car isn't going to get you a better car.
Like I said from the start, I would not trade Girardi unless I got a first round pick. A second rounder is unlikely to even make the NHL so why would I trade a useful young, inexpensive defenseman for that?

I can throw in something like Lisin, but nothing major unless it's an earlier pick. For a 25-30 selection, a pair of young players seems fair. Girardi could be very useful to a contender looking to add a 4-5 defenseman, while Lisin would add depth.

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02-24-2010, 09:57 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Like I said from the start, I would not trade Girardi unless I got a first round pick. A second rounder is unlikely to even make the NHL so why would I trade a useful young, inexpensive defenseman for that?

I can throw in something like Lusin, but nothing major unless it's an earlier pick. For a 25-30 selection, a pair of young players seems fair. Girardi could be very useful to a contender looking to add a 4-5 defenseman, while Lisin would add depth.
You'd trade Girardi because he's a) inconsistent, b) will demand more money than he's worth, c) a ufa at season's end, d) possesses some trade value due to his age and somewhat decent goal totals last season, e) we have a stocked d corps.

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02-24-2010, 10:14 PM
  #354
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Dallas put Alex Auld on waiver today. According to this report,they will put him on re-entry if he passes through waivers.



http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/arch...to-stay-1.html

$243,523 cap hit left this season. The Rangers have 1 NHL contract left.
no brainer pickup .......Auld should be a Ranger as I don't see any other team needing a backup................

as for the deadline i predict Ponikarovsky and Exelby for a 2nd and Lisin................That is a Sather type of mood. Not huge but brings in a guy with offensive potential and a 6/7 Dman

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02-24-2010, 10:32 PM
  #355
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no brainer pickup .......Auld should be a Ranger as I don't see any other team needing a backup................

as for the deadline i predict Ponikarovsky and Exelby for a 2nd and Lisin................That is a Sather type of mood. Not huge but brings in a guy with offensive potential and a 6/7 Dman
Wow, I'd have to say that's probably a Burke type move as well as Sather. However, I'm not so sure Burke would move for Lisin, even though he's young, he doesn't fit the typical Burke way. I see Dubinsky going the other way and the package becoming a little bigger, if anything.

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02-24-2010, 10:35 PM
  #356
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He's hardly holding the team down though. Hes producing at a second line level and being paid slightly less than RFA 2nd line level so I dont see why this is the player that some people choose to pick on.
I agree Dubinsky keeps improving each year which is what you want to see from a young player. He is showing he is a legitimate 2nd line player. He is one of the rangers better players dont know why people want to trade him.

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02-24-2010, 10:37 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
no brainer pickup .......Auld should be a Ranger as I don't see any other team needing a backup................

as for the deadline i predict Ponikarovsky and Exelby for a 2nd and Lisin................That is a Sather type of mood. Not huge but brings in a guy with offensive potential and a 6/7 Dman

Yeah I could see Sather doing that type of move. That would be pretty similar to what he did at last year trade deadline.

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02-24-2010, 10:40 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Like I said from the start, I would not trade Girardi unless I got a first round pick. A second rounder is unlikely to even make the NHL so why would I trade a useful young, inexpensive defenseman for that?

I can throw in something like Lisin, but nothing major unless it's an earlier pick. For a 25-30 selection, a pair of young players seems fair. Girardi could be very useful to a contender looking to add a 4-5 defenseman, while Lisin would add depth.
The question isn't what would make it palatable from the Rangers side. The question is why adding Lisin to any deal would make it more palatable to the other guy.

Unless they are looking to acquire a player who has no discernible value, I don't see why anyone would want him. Not saying it couldn't happen. Hey, Sather fell for it.


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02-25-2010, 06:10 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
no brainer pickup .......Auld should be a Ranger as I don't see any other team needing a backup................

as for the deadline i predict Ponikarovsky and Exelby for a 2nd and Lisin................That is a Sather type of mood. Not huge but brings in a guy with offensive potential and a 6/7 Dman
Sather made the Antropov move because he had a second round pick coming for Cherepanov. Does he have another comp pick coming to replace the 2nd round pick he is allegedly trading to Toronto? How are the Rangers paying for these moves?Adding Auld(on regular waivers/not re-entry) who makes more money than Johnson. Adding two salaries while subtracting a smaller salary in Lisin? That's 51 contracts too.

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02-25-2010, 06:17 AM
  #360
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The GM's spent the break taking it easy

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Since the NHL’s two-week break for the Vancouver Olympics doesn’t officially end until Monday, many league executives are finding it difficult to wheel and deal.

“I’d say there’s a lack of urgency at the moment to make a trade,” a league executive said Wednesday. “That might change as the weekend approaches and players start coming back from the Olympics. Most (GMs) took last week off and they’re getting back at it.

“Part of the issue is there just aren’t that many teams selling. A lot of teams are still in the race and aren’t going to unload any free agents. You have a boatload of buyers and only about five teams selling. You have to think it’s going to pick up here.”
http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/hock.../13016121.html

Edmonton-big contracts
Carolina-Whitney is too expensive.Wants contract extension as part of waiving NTC
Columbus-Torres is the only player and he is a role player
Toronto-looking to deal off their remaining slop.
Florida-Sexton doesn't know what he is doing.
Islanders-Sutton and maybe Roloson.Biron.

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02-25-2010, 07:20 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
no brainer pickup .......Auld should be a Ranger as I don't see any other team needing a backup................

as for the deadline i predict Ponikarovsky and Exelby for a 2nd and Lisin................That is a Sather type of mood. Not huge but brings in a guy with offensive potential and a 6/7 Dman
That deal can't be done unless some bigger salary goes the other way, they won't fit under the cap when all we send the other way is Lisin, at least to my knowledge.

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02-25-2010, 07:37 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Like I said from the start, I would not trade Girardi unless I got a first round pick. A second rounder is unlikely to even make the NHL so why would I trade a useful young, inexpensive defenseman for that?

I can throw in something like Lisin, but nothing major unless it's an earlier pick. For a 25-30 selection, a pair of young players seems fair. Girardi could be very useful to a contender looking to add a 4-5 defenseman, while Lisin would add depth.
back up the truck here

are you talking about next season? or just in general?

either way, don't try to imply that any pick outside of a 1st rounder is worthless

as for girardi, the only thing he does consitantly is disapoint and block some shots...i'd have 0 problem trading him for a decent offer

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02-25-2010, 08:09 AM
  #363
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That deal can't be done unless some bigger salary goes the other way, they won't fit under the cap when all we send the other way is Lisin, at least to my knowledge.
I guess I just assume that with it being the deadline a few million in cap space can go a long way. What I am really hoping for is something like Rozsival, Lisin, Voros, 2nd rounder for Kubina(UFA) and Armstrong.

I can see Atlanta adding some salary going for next yr

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02-25-2010, 08:14 AM
  #364
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The GM's spent the break taking it easy



http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/hock.../13016121.html

Edmonton-big contracts
Carolina-Whitney is too expensive.Wants contract extension as part of waiving NTC
Columbus-Torres is the only player and he is a role player
Toronto-looking to deal off their remaining slop.
Florida-Sexton doesn't know what he is doing.
Islanders-Sutton and maybe Roloson.Biron.
Plenty of buyers out there, so once again an opportunity missed. I'm sure a few teams would love to get their hands on a Prospal or Jokinen for the run and with less teams selling, that drives the value up for these UFAs. This pretty much confirms what we all thought, Sather is also a buyer in a sellers market. 30% chance to make the playoffs yet hes going for it. Keep on rolling those dice Glen, its what you do best!

And the wheels of mediocrity continue to spin and spin.


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02-25-2010, 08:20 AM
  #365
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Plenty of buyers out there, so once again an opportunity missed. I'm sure a few teams would love to get their hands on a Prospal or Jokinen for the run and with less teams selling, that drives the value up for these UFAs. This pretty much confirms what we all thought, Sather is also a buyer in a sellers market. 30% chance to make the playoffs yet hes going for it. Keep on rolling those dice Glen, its what you do best!

And the wheels of mediocrity continue to spin and spin.

It really is terrible that nobody can speak sense into Sather, no high official, even Tortorella, to make him think that he shouldn't make moves for the now.

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02-25-2010, 08:36 AM
  #366
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It really is terrible that nobody can speak sense into Sather, no high official, even Tortorella, to make him think that he shouldn't make moves for the now.
Let me offer some pure honesty on this whole issue.

I dont expect anyone on the team, Tortorella, any of the upper management and the scouts (even if they think otherwise because they love those picks) to hint to Sather that selling is the way to go when you probably have a memo coming from the top that the playoff revenue always comes first - or something to that effect told or untold.

The problem is ten-fold. You are in a big market and there is tremendous pressure to have success and unfortunately sometimes thats only measured by the club if you garner some playoff revenue and hit numbers. Even if he thinks deep down this could be a year to sell, Sather wants to kill 2 birds with one stone by improving the club but freeing up cap space to go after free agents.

You can't half ass it IMO, because its emblematic of the play on the ice when you form a team like that. Theres always something to be fixed, theres always a contract to get rid of or a risk that hasnt payed dividends. A majority of the "good moved" Sather has made have been a direct result of a fixing a mistake he made earlier. Sometimes theres a season when you need to take a step back and it should be evident that this is the one. This is the transition year. This is the year where you dont HAVE to trade off some of your assets because of too many upcoming RFAs. But unfortunately, the Rangers are just good enough to be on that bubble line where a great draft position isnt forcing your hand, but the possibility of two or more extra home games are.

A guy like me can sit here and whine all i want about selling instead of buying, but I'm sure there is tremendous pressure from the ownership - and whether or not its embellished in the braintrusts collective minds, from the fans as well. I dont think they give the fans enough credit. I think about half of them wouldnt mind selling off pieces to better the teams future. I think the management believes or convinces themselves to believe that New York fans always want results and dont have the foresight to sacrifice a season so to speak. So that is contributing factor to the general managers actions.

It takes someone to step outside themselves and really see the situation for what it is. Its takes some real balls, to first admit you screwed up in a sense and to put your ego and the teams image (whatever theyve deluded themselves into thinking it is at this point) aside and sell. Sather is too far into his tenure to do that IMO. Its not an easy thing to do, especially in New York - and thats why I want Sather out because it allows the new GM (like Donnie Walsh) to truly clear the decks and give a fresh approach to what has been a mess all along (no pun intended with the word Mess).

Unfortunately, the sell camp can argue about this into they are blue in the face but the sad reality is that this team with its current GM will NEVER be sellers unless something catastrophic happens and their hand is pretty much forced to do so. So while i can ***** an moan about this and make it seem like I really believe there is a chance Slats will sell, thats really not the case. We all know what hes going to do. Every year. Win or lose.


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02-25-2010, 08:54 AM
  #367
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I guess I just assume that with it being the deadline a few million in cap space can go a long way. What I am really hoping for is something like Rozsival, Lisin, Voros, 2nd rounder for Kubina(UFA) and Armstrong.

I can see Atlanta adding some salary going for next yr
Few million in cap space? You've clearly got us confused with some other team.

http://www.capgeek.com/tracker/

As of right now, we have $229,623 in cap space, which means the max contract we can add is $963,418. Poni is a $2,105,000 cap hit and Exelby is $1,391,667. Lisin is only $790,000. If we were to send Gilroy down, the net cap increase would be $956,667, but that's cutting it awfully thin. If we had any injuries, we'd have no cap space to replace them.

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02-25-2010, 08:57 AM
  #368
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[QUOTE=Vitto79;24113933]I guess I just assume that with it being the deadline a few million in cap space can go a long way. What I am really hoping for is something like Rozsival, Lisin, Voros, 2nd rounder for Kubina(UFA) and Armstrong.

I can see Atlanta adding some salary going for next yr[/QUOTE]

If there is an Atlanta next year

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02-25-2010, 08:57 AM
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I guess I just assume that with it being the deadline a few million in cap space can go a long way. What I am really hoping for is something like Rozsival, Lisin, Voros, 2nd rounder for Kubina(UFA) and Armstrong.

I can see Atlanta adding some salary going for next yr
That's an embarrassing offer. Methinks you need to stop building packages around Rozsival, Lisin, Voros and a 2nd.

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02-25-2010, 09:24 AM
  #370
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That's an embarrassing offer. Methinks you need to stop building packages around Rozsival, Lisin, Voros and a 2nd.
Enver Lisin and Aaron Voros have absolutely no value at all.

I'd even go as far to say they actually hurt deals when theyre plugged in as fillers.

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02-25-2010, 09:57 AM
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Just want to point out how funny it is that so many people trash talk Girardi and continue on in the same sentence that they want to trade him for a good return.... If "the only thing he does consistently is disappoint" then why would anyone trade anything of value for him?

Let's be REALISTIC here. He's a solid 3-5 D-man, probably 4-5 on a good team. He's still young and he does have value. But to bash him so much and then suggest we trade him for someone who's going to help us just doesn't add up. Think before posting?

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02-25-2010, 10:13 AM
  #372
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That's an embarrassing offer. Methinks you need to stop building packages around Rozsival, Lisin, Voros and a 2nd.
Would it bring back Ryder, Halak and a 2nd? That is the eternal question.

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02-25-2010, 11:17 AM
  #373
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Just want to point out how funny it is that so many people trash talk Girardi and continue on in the same sentence that they want to trade him for a good return.... If "the only thing he does consistently is disappoint" then why would anyone trade anything of value for him?

Let's be REALISTIC here. He's a solid 3-5 D-man, probably 4-5 on a good team. He's still young and he does have value. But to bash him so much and then suggest we trade him for someone who's going to help us just doesn't add up. Think before posting?
cause their stupid and havn't formed their opinion of him by watching him night after night with my expert knowledge about NHL defensmen

i thought it was rather obvious that I was banking on a team thinking he's better than i think he is, or having more potential then i think he does, or thinking he'd be utilized better on their team then ours

im not a girardi fan, but i'd have to admit that on a better group of Dmen his flaws would be less noticable as he would not be leaned on nearly as much as he's been this season

as far as i've been able to tell, he's a 3rd pairing NHL dman...if a team thinks he's more than that, or can be more than that and wants to trade for him then by all means we should take that trade


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02-25-2010, 11:54 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Enver Lisin and Aaron Voros have absolutely no value at all.

I'd even go as far to say they actually hurt deals when theyre plugged in as fillers.
Voros, I agree. That he doesn't do much and is under contract for another year gives him negative value to many teams.

Lisin, while he sucks, is young, relatively cheap and heading to another year of RFA. I could see a team wanting to take a flier on him for 20 games, knowing they could qualify him if they like him or walk away if he still sucks.

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02-25-2010, 11:54 AM
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cause their stupid and havn't formed their opinion of him by watching him night after night with my expert knowledge about NHL defensmen

i thought it was rather obvious that I was banking on a team thinking he's better than i think he is, or having more potential then i think he does, or thinking he'd be utilized better on their team then ours

im not a girardi fan, but i'd have to admit that on a better group of Dmen his flaws would be less noticable as he would not be leaned on nearly as much as he's been this season

as far as i've been able to tell, he's a 3rd pairing NHL dman...if a team thinks he's more than that, or can be more than that and wants to trade for him then by all means we should take that trade
Maybe the biggest difference between our lines of thinking is that I really don't think Girardi's going to get much of a raise at all, and maybe you do?

I agree that he's been asked to play above his ability (more minutes, more responsibility), but as our team grows, I think keeping Girardi (at the deservedly affordable pricetag I think he'll get on his next contract) will be an asset for us. I want him to play no higher than the #4 spot, and I think with Staal and Del Zotto taking up 2 of the top 3 spots, that's certainly possible next year.

You can't undervalue the fact that Girardi's been with the team for a few years now (and in my opinion, been solid). You can't keep having such a huge overturn every year bringing in new faces who have no established loyalty the NYR logo / franchise / fans / city. I don't think Girardi is part of the problem, and if put in the role he's best suited for, I think he can be part of the long-term solution. You may disagree with me on that, and that's fine. I guess I'm also banking on the hope that this will be Redden's last season as a Ranger (either getting burried in Hartford or Glen hypnotizing another GM into taking him). If Girardi doesn't get moved at the deadline, I guess we'll have to wait and see how these other pieces fall into or out of place.

A couple of years ago, Tyutin and Girardi were among our BEST defensemen. Then we traded Tyutin and he's blossomed into not only Columbus' best overall d-man but an important part of their powerplay. A few years ago, getting the puck through to the net was one of Girardi's strengths. This year, he's been miserable at it. I think he's just been half-a-second slow/late. He's hesitating. The entire time sans Gaborik has been guilty of falling victim to hesitation this year. When they think less and just play hard, definitive hockey, it looks like a much different team. My point is that he's a well-rounded player and he knows his teammates, the coaches, the system, the city, and the franchise. If he isn't overused (often on the FIRST PAIR because of how desperately lacking of depth we are on defense), and he doesn't command much of a raise, he can be a very valuable asset. KEEP GIRARDI.

Note: With all this said, of course I'd move him in the RIGHT deal (presumably a bigger package in which he's not the centerpiece), but I'd be okay with moving anyone on this team in the RIGHT deal except Gaborik, Lundqvist, Staal, and DZ. I'm tempted to put Callahan in that group as well because I really think he is immeasurably valuable to this team, but assuming he was the breaking point in a bigger deal for a truly elite talent that could transform our team and didn't have a ridiculous contract, I'd certainly have to think about it. You can replace his "energy" but it isn't as easy to replace his consistency, heart, and non-stop work-ethic. He can take over a shift ala Ovechkin. Completely different players and Callahan's skill level and ability is not even in the same UNIVERSE, but nonetheless, I've seen Callahan dominate an entire minute+ long shift in a very similar way (not with the same lethal offensive chances, but still having the same positive effect by playing die-hard defense and then taking the puck all the way to the opposing net after PKing for 45 seconds) ... and he seems to very rarely run out of energy. He has such a positive impact on this team and is such a role model for the younger players, that I'd really prefer to keep him unless it was an offer that we could not refuse.


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