HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Why is Norway not a hockey power?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-17-2010, 07:24 AM
  #51
RorschachWJK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuusamo
Country: Finland
Posts: 3,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Or maybe its because bloddoping don't make you a great nation in hockey, like it does in Cross Country Skiing...

http://langd.custompublish.com/kyrou...t.4503375.html

(Former National Team coach accuses Norway for systematic doping in skiing)

Heh. Kyrö and his snipes at everybody.

To tell you the truth, regarding doping, I have long since abandoned faith in a number of sports. Almost all types of running, skiing and weight lifting are under that category for example. It is speculated that even some of the great Finnish runners of the past like Lasse Viren used and benefited from a version of blood doping. Ok, it wasn't considered doping at the time, but I resent it as cheating nevertheless.

To me, in certain sports there are only two types of athletes: convicted users of doping and those who haven't been caught yet. Usually eastern block athletes get caught more frequently but I suspect the only difference is that their methods may be more crude and their organisations don't have as much money behind them to help stay up to date with antidoping measures. Yes, I am cynical

What does this leave me with, you may ask? Basically, only sports were technique is very demanding and much more important than easily dopable qualities like pure strength, stamina or speed. Tennis for example. But even in these sports certain types of doping can be beneficial, especially the kind that helps recover more quickly from hard workouts. So, in the end I shouldn't follow any sports...

Rambling OT rant off.

RorschachWJK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 07:27 AM
  #52
Sony Eriksson*
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N. Dallas/NYC
Country: Faroe Islands
Posts: 13,583
vCash: 500
Because Espen Knutsen is no longer playing...

Sony Eriksson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 09:07 AM
  #53
BSHH
HSVer & Rotflügel
 
BSHH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hamburg
Country: Germany
Posts: 955
vCash: 500
At first, let me thank the OP for this interesting question. Obviously hockey is historically far less popular in Norway than in Sweden or Finland, where the similar sport of bandy seems to be much more popular as well. Thus I do not find stating the number of rinks to be a thorough analysis, as this is the consequence of the lack of popularity rather than the source.

From an outside perspective, Norway tends to produce many male elite athletes, but does not excel similarly in team sports for men (opposite countries would be Croatia, the Netherlands or the Czech Republic). During the last 30 years, Sweden has almost always fielded better men's soccer teams than Norway, Denmark very often. Within the same period of timel, I would consider Norwegian men's handball team worse to Sweden, Denmark and Iceland. The Norwegian women's soccer and handball teams have been very good though, but is that relevant for the men's hockey team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchwenningerWildWing View Post
Speaking for Germany I don´t think the problem is that hockey is a sport for bullies. It is just very expensive. You have to buy the equipment, the travel costs. Also a lack of rinks is a problem in Germany and therefore practice time, which is sometimes late in the evening for youth teams. It´s just easier to go to a football (soccer, I mean) team or a handball team. You need next to none new equipment except shoes, you can play it almost everywhere. Sticks, skates, protective gear, you don´t need that in soccer or handball. I think that with the travel costs is also a huge problem. I would go that far and say that hockey is only played by kids whose parents have enough money not by bullies.
At least here in Northern Germany ice hockey simply does not exist as common amateur or junior sports. In school, we even had a field hockey class, but ice hockey was neither offered nor visibly demanded. If I had children, I would be easily be able to find soccer, handball (which I would not consider a particularly lower-class sport, by the way), basketball, field hockey or volleyball teams for them, but I never noticed any similar options for ice hockey. I guess, the situation in Norway is not very different.

Gruß,
BSHH

BSHH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 10:25 AM
  #54
bottomofthefoodchain
Registered User
 
bottomofthefoodchain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,873
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
The biggest problem is a lack of hockey rinks. Currently, there are 37 of them in Norway. When Sweden and Finland took steps towards improving the hockey infrastructure, Norway didn't. Even in Norway's highest league, the conditions are quite bad (the locker room aren't in the same building as the rink, etc...)

I think it has to do with culture, hockey just didn't stick with the Norwegians, they prefer cross-country skiing and such. According to this article, such conceptions such as hockey had too much east block feeling stuck to it. If you played hockey in Norway, you were stupid. The success they had in soccer 1994, didn't help the hockey program.

It's a bad spiral. The interest in hockey is low, so media doesn't write about it. Hockey doesn't get alot of money and players, so the interest is kept low. And so on... and those few Norwegians who become good players, don't stay in their own league, but usually play in SEL.
What success?

Norway are pretty good at everything involving skiing (not that they've shown it this year), and women's handball. I think that's about it.
Which is weird, considering Norway is perhaps the richest country in the world. I wonder what they do with all that money...


Last edited by bottomofthefoodchain: 02-17-2010 at 10:31 AM.
bottomofthefoodchain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 10:33 AM
  #55
JVR
HeadHitsAreNotIllega
 
JVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Germany
Posts: 3,187
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSHH View Post
At least here in Northern Germany ice hockey simply does not exist as common amateur or junior sports.
It depends, here in Hannover it actually does.
We even played hockey in school and in my class more students played hockey in a club than soccer.

Rinks are a big problem. In our metro region of about 1.500.000 people we have 3 rinks. Not enough time for everyone to train, it's a bad situation.

I don't know how the Czech manage to finance their rinks, here it's just to expensive really.

JVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 10:52 AM
  #56
David Brent
Registered User
 
David Brent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Norway
Country: Norway
Posts: 143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
What success?

Norway are pretty good at everything involving skiing (not that they've shown it this year), and women's handball. I think that's about it.
Which is weird, considering Norway is perhaps the richest country in the world. I wonder what they do with all that money...
Quoted for proof of total ignorance.

I don't know where to start, but I'll try to cough up some facts:

1. Yes, we are very good at skiing. In fact, Norway is ranked #1 in total amount of medals in the winter Olympics all time. Quite the feat, considering the population of a mere 4,5 million people.
2. Handball/Soccer: The best womens team, among the 5-6 best male teams in the world. Soccer: Female team among the 4-6 best teams.
Male team is in a bit of a slump, but we were ranked #2 in the World in the mid 90's(!).
3. We have several individual golds in the summer olympics, most recently Thorkildsens second straight gold in the javelin throw.
4. There are a lot of countrys that have some explaining to do if money = success in sports.
5. Fact of the matter is that Norway is one of the best, if not the best, when you look at the ratio between population and medals/results.
When it comes to hockey, we have 37 rinks and about 6000 registered players. In the last WC we reached the QF's, which is pretty damn good.

David Brent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 10:56 AM
  #57
Franck
Insolent Upstart
 
Franck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gothenburg
Country: Sweden
Posts: 7,868
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
What success?

Norway are pretty good at everything involving skiing (not that they've shown it this year), and women's handball. I think that's about it.
Which is weird, considering Norway is perhaps the richest country in the world. I wonder what they do with all that money...
Spend it on their hideously overpriced food, alcohol and other essential products.

Franck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:01 AM
  #58
Myke
Registered User
 
Myke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
Toronto having a higher population then Norway was his point.
It was quite clear
And I think he's implying it isnt a very good point. haha.

Myke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:06 AM
  #59
Redwingsfan
Global Moderator
What rust??
 
Redwingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Norway
Posts: 19,075
vCash: 500
Awards:
Send a message via MSN to Redwingsfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
The biggest problem is a lack of hockey rinks. Currently, there are 37 of them in Norway. When Sweden and Finland took steps towards improving the hockey infrastructure, Norway didn't. Even in Norway's highest league, the conditions are quite bad (the locker room aren't in the same building as the rink, etc...)

I think it has to do with culture, hockey just didn't stick with the Norwegians, they prefer cross-country skiing and such. According to this article, such conceptions such as hockey had too much east block feeling stuck to it. If you played hockey in Norway, you were stupid. The success they had in soccer 1994, didn't help the hockey program.

It's a bad spiral. The interest in hockey is low, so media doesn't write about it. Hockey doesn't get alot of money and players, so the interest is kept low. And so on... and those few Norwegians who become good players, don't stay in their own league, but usually play in SEL.
Thats not true.. Every team in the highest league in Norway have nice locker rooms located inside the rink.. I agree with everything else you said though

Redwingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:11 AM
  #60
HackandLube
Registered User
 
HackandLube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
The biggest problem is a lack of hockey rinks. Currently, there are 37 of them in Norway. When Sweden and Finland took steps towards improving the hockey infrastructure, Norway didn't. Even in Norway's highest league, the conditions are quite bad (the locker room aren't in the same building as the rink, etc...)

I think it has to do with culture, hockey just didn't stick with the Norwegians, they prefer cross-country skiing and such. According to this article, such conceptions such as hockey had too much east block feeling stuck to it. If you played hockey in Norway, you were stupid. The success they had in soccer 1994, didn't help the hockey program.

It's a bad spiral. The interest in hockey is low, so media doesn't write about it. Hockey doesn't get alot of money and players, so the interest is kept low. And so on... and those few Norwegians who become good players, don't stay in their own league, but usually play in SEL.
In your linked article, who is this player and why does he have a Canadiens goalie mask?


HackandLube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:14 AM
  #61
Redwingsfan
Global Moderator
What rust??
 
Redwingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Norway
Posts: 19,075
vCash: 500
Awards:
Send a message via MSN to Redwingsfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by HackandLube View Post
In your linked article, who is this player and why does he have a Canadiens goalie mask?

Thats Grotnes, Norways goalie.. He's a Habs fan..

Redwingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:17 AM
  #62
GeeoffBrown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,930
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
What success?

Norway are pretty good at everything involving skiing (not that they've shown it this year), and women's handball. I think that's about it.
Which is weird, considering Norway is perhaps the richest country in the world. I wonder what they do with all that money...
They spend it on making more money I assume.

GeeoffBrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:18 AM
  #63
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by finchster View Post
Hey finchster, I didn't know Norway has so many Trans-gendered hockey players!! According to the link they have 6,385 players with Male = 1,993 and Female= 458


Last edited by doakacola*: 02-17-2010 at 11:41 AM.
doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:20 AM
  #64
Tombernack
Registered User
 
Tombernack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,109
vCash: 500
They haven't learned to force fate yet.

Tombernack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:22 AM
  #65
unknown33
Registered User
 
unknown33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Europe
Country: Marshall Islands
Posts: 3,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post

I'm pretty sure I was making the statement that they ARE decent at team sports. Or did that little part have nothing to do with my post? In any event, Norway is definitely good enough at soccer to be ranked top 32 (of 202 teams with international points on the ranking scale) in consecutive years by FIFA, which is just behind Denmark, and well ahead of Sweden and Finland, which was my main point (since there's a lot of comparing of team sports within Scandinavia here). The USA is 14th, Canada is 50-something.
If you would watch some 'Soccer' you would know that Norway isn't in the same class as Sweden and Denmark.

The FIFA World Ranking is complete useless for comparing the strength of teams.

unknown33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:27 AM
  #66
HackandLube
Registered User
 
HackandLube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,486
vCash: 500
This is a very good thread!

So we have discovered why Sweden seemed to get ahead of the pack and develop a hockey culture why Norway didn't. I'm curious now as well as to why Finland also developed a very strong hockey culture. How did that happen? Was it the proximity to Russia?

Regarding the posts about hockey in Germany and Great Britain and how it is not popular due to costs and repuation (perhaps due to the thuggish/violent/lower class reptuation) that is interesting. Yesterday when I was watching the Canada-Norway game on an online stream it was streamed from an AUSTRALIAN channel.
That was a very interesting experience viewing that because the commentators were obviously trying to explain what ice hockey was to an audience who knows nothing about it and they did refer quite often to the violence of hockey and said bizarre things like how the violence and hits were similar to American football and they kept talking about injuries and brain damage and stupid things like that. I also learned that Australia has only fielded an ice hockey Olympic team in the 1960s and they had the worst record and never fielded a team again.

HackandLube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:29 AM
  #67
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
How accurate for registered players are those figures. The number of players in Russia seems very low when compared to the overall population. Is hockey played in some of these countries in unorganized leagues thta don't report participants to the governing body? I just find that number for russia very low.

doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:29 AM
  #68
MoonDragn
Registered User
 
MoonDragn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 8,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
The biggest problem is a lack of hockey rinks. Currently, there are 37 of them in Norway. When Sweden and Finland took steps towards improving the hockey infrastructure, Norway didn't. Even in Norway's highest league, the conditions are quite bad (the locker room aren't in the same building as the rink, etc...)

Well that explains it. There are 54 rinks in New Jersey alone, much less the rest of US. Granted they don't all offer decent hockey programs, I can see how it would make a difference.

MoonDragn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:33 AM
  #69
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonDragn View Post
Well that explains it. There are 54 rinks in New Jersey alone, much less the rest of US. Granted they don't all offer decent hockey programs, I can see how it would make a difference.
Yep, but that doesn't explain why a cold weather climate country doesn't have even the interest in the sport.

New Jersey is starting to reap the benefits of the Devils success as it shows in the elite players coming out of Jersey, like JVR, Ryan & Sanguinetti. I can remember when Max Middendorf was the only kid in the NHL from Jersey.

doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:34 AM
  #70
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 49,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drudkh View Post
And Norway's population is barely less than Finland or Slovakia.
I wouldn't hold up Slovakian hockey as something to aspire to. Its quickly going downhill and in 10 years will be probably have disappeared from the world stage. The big boom of Slovakian players was the remnants of Czechoslovakia. A lot of Slovakian players benefited from that system, and since the 1993 dissolution, Slovakia has quickly gone downhill. The Slovaks for example have only developed 2 notable NHL players in the last decade, and I'm including Halak. All their big guns, with the exception of Gaborik, were developed in the early to mid 1990s under what was still a Czech dominated development system.

Fish on The Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:39 AM
  #71
David Brent
Registered User
 
David Brent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Norway
Country: Norway
Posts: 143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doakacola View Post
How accurate for registered players are those figures. The number of players in Russia seems very low when compared to the overall population. Is hockey played in some of these countries in unorganized leagues thta don't report participants to the governing body? I just find that number for russia very low.
Speaking from a Norwegian point of view, we don't have enough rinks to accomodate all the organized teams, let alone any teams from unorganized leagues. How it works in Russia I do not know.
My uneducated guess would be that there are a lot of players that goes unregistered, as many other aspects of the russian society does.

David Brent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 11:43 AM
  #72
MoonDragn
Registered User
 
MoonDragn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 8,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doakacola View Post
Yep, but that doesn't explain why a cold weather climate country doesn't have even the interest in the sport.

New Jersey is starting to reap the benefits of the Devils success as it shows in the elite players coming out of Jersey, like JVR, Ryan & Sanguinetti. I can remember when Max Middendorf was the only kid in the NHL from Jersey.
It is like any other sport, depends on the interests. China has climates like North America and it's hockey program isn't that well developed either. Yet it has some of the best figure skaters in the world.

MoonDragn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 12:03 PM
  #73
Xottam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 49
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVR View Post
It depends, here in Hannover it actually does.
We even played hockey in school and in my class more students played hockey in a club than soccer.

Rinks are a big problem. In our metro region of about 1.500.000 people we have 3 rinks. Not enough time for everyone to train, it's a bad situation.

I don't know how the Czech manage to finance their rinks, here it's just to expensive really.

Thanks for the info on Germany. I've often wondered the same with regards to Norway, but the one that really baffles me is Germany. I've always figured Germany was a sleeping giant in this sport, and if they ever invested heavily in the sport, then they could be one of the best in the world. I mean, every sport Germany wants to be good at, they are. I wish they would put more of an emphasis on this sport of ice hockey, cause I really think 30 years from now they could be like Sweden or Czechia is today.

And another, Japan. I think Japan could be a really good ice hockey nation. They might lack some size, but generalizing overall, they tend to be very fast powerful skaters. And judging them from other sports, especially team sports, they are always fundamentally sound. I could see them being a Finland type if they ever tried to build up their program.

Xottam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 12:09 PM
  #74
FreakyEuro*
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gladsaxe, Denmark
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
According to this article, such conceptions such as hockey had too much east block feeling stuck to it. If you played hockey in Norway, you were stupid.
Racism and xenophoby so disgusting regardless the form and shape.

This one is even funny. The way a short term economical prosperity (last 40-50 years) gives an individual or a nation the false feeling of superiority. Before the WWII Czechoslovakia was one of the most developed countries in Europe in terms of living standard, technology and industry. In the eyes of pre-war Czechoslovaks Scandinavia was a next-door-to-starving hickey dead-end where people survived on hunting squirrels and foxes. And see how the card has turned in say 75 years. Literally within one lifespan. Nowadays Scandinavians feel superior to "eastern block" based on wealth and prosperity most of them had no part in making.

Human nature, I guess. It's always been that way. Just as the Romans of old considered (and treated) all the native peoples north of Alps no better than animals.

Valuable lesson is the fact that the superiority is shifting and is not granted. Maybe you shall see yourself, within your own lifespan.

FreakyEuro* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 12:09 PM
  #75
IslesNorway
Registered User
 
IslesNorway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doakacola View Post
Yep, but that doesn't explain why a cold weather climate country doesn't have even the interest in the sport.
Did you read my original post on page 1 of this thread? I think that explains at least with some accuracy why Norway aren't a big hockey nation.

I think the reason why Norway ain't a hockey nation can be summed up like this:

1) Not enough hockey rinks throughout the country. Imagine the second largest city in Norway doesn't even have it's own team (at least one to speak of). It should give you an idea

2) The sport has a huge reputation/image problem. See my earlier post

3) Other sports are more popular and easier to access and play. Hockey requires a great deal of equipment. Football and skiing doesn't.

4) No success for the national team generates no interest

5) No media exposure. Games are not shown on national, free tv-channels.


Sweden and Finland have had decades of success and international star players. That generates interest among the public and gives respectability to the sport. Norway has had none of the above.

IslesNorway is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.