HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Why is Norway not a hockey power?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-17-2010, 04:57 PM
  #151
Franck
Insolent Upstart
 
Franck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gothenburg
Country: Sweden
Posts: 8,751
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Minor tweaking of the system? What system? There is absolutely no development or cohesive minor league system outside of Hokkaido (where the people to deer ratio is similar to Nunavut... okay, I'm kidding... sort of). The men's league that does exist is just corporations looking for fun and unique excuses to spend money and get bragging rights over competing conglomerates, and most players are company employees first, hockey players second (so your salary compensates you for your job, not necessarily your skill at hockey).

If there was an actual organized (and competitive... i.e. house league separated from "rep" teams) minor league in the big cities (Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya, Kobe, etc) instead of teams playing as many exhibition games as the coaches can arrange, a national development program, and prospects of high salaries in a domestic pro league, Japan would turn into a respectable hockey power overnight. No one there is going to spend the time and money to put that in place though, as long as the light at the end of the tunnel is only pale green (and not the bright green of million $ salaries).
Do you think having a KHL team in Tokyo would be financially viable?

Asking as I have heard the idea of eastward expansion of the KHL being mentioned on this forum before.

As for the organisation of a league and such, wasn't that pretty much what the J-League did for association football in Japan? Took the sport out of the corporations hands to try and emulate the European/North American system?

Franck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 05:03 PM
  #152
Placid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Norway
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakyEuro View Post
Maybe there is a way. As the teenagers sum up for a major marketing drive and channel, the task would be to persuade the teenagers that anyone who doesn't play/follow hockey is an utter fairy (no pun intended). To make the teenagers dig the game. The rest will be a stone rolling down the hill.
hehe, thats true, getting the youth sold on it would create an excellent foundation. Off to hatch a plan to vilify soccer, that should do it

Placid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 05:09 PM
  #153
Brodie
to the hall
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 13,684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franck View Post
Do you think having a KHL team in Tokyo would be financially viable?
I'm not sure how it would do, but that would be all kinds of epic.

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 05:11 PM
  #154
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 25,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franck View Post
Do you think having a KHL team in Tokyo would be financially viable?

Asking as I have heard the idea of eastward expansion of the KHL being mentioned on this forum before.

As for the organisation of a league and such, wasn't that pretty much what the J-League did for association football in Japan? Took the sport out of the corporations hands to try and emulate the European/North American system?
Hmm... very interesting. Would give instant "credibility" and attractive salaries. Culture, immigration regulations, etc would be major hurdles, but I would say it would easily be financially viable as long as the team was atleast decently successful in the early stages. Japanese people wrote the book on consuming sports merchandise (I wouldn't be surprised if they sell as much Hanshin Tigers and Yomiuri Giants gear inside of Japan as the Yankees and Red Sox do worldwide), and the population density and interest in hockey (thinking about gate revenues here) would certainly be no problem. Finding somewhere for the arena would be the only problem, but there are train and subway stations going EVERYWHERE in that country, so access shouldn't pose a problem. And there are enough foreigners living there nowadays that a loyal following among that segment of the population might develop as well. Problem would be maintaining competitiveness while still finding spots for Japanese players. I certainly wouldn't anticipate having trouble finding a corporate sponsor/buyer.

And you're right about the J-league. Unfortunately that model is vastly overshadowed by pro baseball's system (which, of course, has all teams named after the largest corporations in the country, and NOT the cities they are based in; Hanshin=one of the biggest private railway companies - team based in suburban Osaka, Yomiuri=one of the biggest media conglomerates - team based in Tokyo, etc, and that's how they afford to pay salaries that very much compete with MLB salaries when you factor in that players can earn them without leaving Japan, and their families, behind). Both leagues, though, have a quota for max number of spots that can be occupied by "foreigners", as far as I know. Don't know how they'd implement that in a hockey league (I played on a team in Osaka from time to time when I first got there, but I never heard/asked if I was taking up a "foreigner" spot... it wasn't the "pro" league anyway though), of if they'd bother if it was just one team. They might have to though, if it's meant to be motivation for the minor ranks and not just a product to be consumed.

edit: you might be surprised to know that there are 142 Japanese nationals listed at eliteprospects.com, and many are playing in European 1st and 2nd divisions, NCAA, etc (trivia for you: a forward on Sidney Crosby's high school team the year he turned pro is from Kanagawa, Japan: Hidemasa Takahashi. Now playing at Lawrence University, NCAA). Most of them would probably have a lot of interest in possibly playing for a KHL team at home, and you could probably turn out a decent team, even with a max foreigner "quota".


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 02-17-2010 at 05:35 PM.
Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 05:12 PM
  #155
FreakyEuro*
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gladsaxe, Denmark
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Placid View Post
hehe, thats true, getting the youth sold on it would create an excellent foundation. Off to hatch a plan to vilify soccer, that should do it
I have always liked what the Englishmen say: Football is a gentleman sport played by hooligans, where Rugby is a hooligan sport played by gentlemen.

There is a huge part of truth to it. Many football players are overpaid primadonas. And I can't stand all the diving. Actually over here in CR the football gained a lot of bad reputation over the recent 2-3 years (to my satisfaction) due to corrupted matchups, intolerable starlet behavior of many players and overal dishonest atmosphere of acting, diving and air of softness.

Actually it's funny, because what you (or your countrymen for that matter) wrote here about hockey in Norway (if you watch hockey you're stupid, bully, etc.) works pretty much for football in the Czech Republic.

Hockey is considered to be the sport of the real men here.

FreakyEuro* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-17-2010, 06:35 PM
  #156
Placid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Norway
Posts: 3,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakyEuro View Post
Actually it's funny, because what you (or your countrymen for that matter) wrote here about hockey in Norway (if you watch hockey you're stupid, bully, etc.) works pretty much for football in the Czech Republic.

Hockey is considered to be the sport of the real men here.
hehe, i know, i visited the Czech Republic some years ago, and the big thing was without question hockey

Personally i cant quite understand the facination with Soccer, but i am unfortunately in the definate minority

The general conception for the Norwegian audience is that hockey is a sport that glorifies violence (the tackles, or god forbid, a fight). Most people hold themselves "morally superior" to that, without ever really taking the time to understand the game. So they stay with "kid friendly" sport, which encompasses just about anything other than hockey.

Craig Ferguson probably said it the best when he said : "Canadians are the nicest people on the planet, but put a hockey stick in their hands and they turn into psychopaths"

Placid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 09:17 AM
  #157
Dans
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 86
vCash: 500
This has to be the best thread I have ever read on this forum - there is not one single proposal. Fantastic.

Dans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 10:34 AM
  #158
BruinsBtn
Registered User
 
BruinsBtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dans View Post
That should be the same the world over though, surely? Or is hockey equipment cheap as chips in places like Canada??


BTW - good luck in the playoff finals against the mighty EHC
Hockey equipment used to be relatively cheap. It changed around the time Nike got involved. The cost of playing hockey for kids is completely out of hand at the moment.

BruinsBtn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 10:36 AM
  #159
BruinsBtn
Registered User
 
BruinsBtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakyEuro View Post
I have always liked what the Englishmen say: Football is a gentleman sport played by hooligans, where Rugby is a hooligan sport played by gentlemen.

There is a huge part of truth to it. Many football players are overpaid primadonas. And I can't stand all the diving. Actually over here in CR the football gained a lot of bad reputation over the recent 2-3 years (to my satisfaction) due to corrupted matchups, intolerable starlet behavior of many players and overal dishonest atmosphere of acting, diving and air of softness.

Actually it's funny, because what you (or your countrymen for that matter) wrote here about hockey in Norway (if you watch hockey you're stupid, bully, etc.) works pretty much for football in the Czech Republic.

Hockey is considered to be the sport of the real men here.
Sick avatar. Krejci is my favourite player. I hope he has a great olympics.

BruinsBtn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 11:54 AM
  #160
Tomas W
Registered User
 
Tomas W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
There are several reasons why hockey has never really caught on in Norway.

One of the main being the lack of rinks. In Finland and Sweden rinks are scattered all across the country and kids grow up playing hockey. In Norway, only in the Oslo area and a couple of other places are there any rinks at all. This of course ensures that the sport doesn't carry any nationwide interest.

Secondly- and this is important - hockey carries a bit of a bad rep in Norway. It is considered a somewhat brutish sport played by thugs and buillies. If you live in a hockey area there's a good chance that your local school bullies and self-proclaimed tough guys are also hockey players. This may seem like an unfair assumption but it carries a grerat deal of truth nonetheless. At the school where I work there have been cases of the local hockey coaches telling players that being aggressive at school benefits them on the ice (!!). Needless to say that doesn't enhance the sport's reputation.

Thirdly, there is no media exposure to speak of. Some games are televised on Pay TV channels but no one is watching anyway. If games had been shown on national tv it might have been different, but newspapers and tv don't really care much for the sport.
Lack of exposure = lack of interest.

A fourth and final explanation lies in the fact that other sports are more popular among kids. Soccer is the dominant sport and skiing is in our blood so that takes most of the kids time. That coupled with the lack of international success for the hockey team creates a viscious circle for the sport.

Whoever said that Norway aren't good at team sports obviously doesn't know much about Norwegian sports. The national soccer team have qualified for World Championships and European Championships in the past and are hugely popular. The same goes for handball. Norwegians aren't particularly geared towards individual sports, at least not more than Finns and Swedes, it's just that skiing's what we're brought up on - the same way Canadians are taught to play hockey.
Is it only me who thinks it's hularious that Norwegians and Austrians belive that they are any good at Soccer? Even Sweden is better.

Tomas W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 12:23 PM
  #161
IslesNorway
Registered User
 
IslesNorway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: Norway
Posts: 3,313
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas W View Post
Is it only me who thinks it's hularious that Norwegians and Austrians belive that they are any good at Soccer? Even Sweden is better.
I never said Norway were any good at football nor did anyone else. But at least they are better at football and much more competitive than they are at hockey. Being competitive in football much harder than in hockey.

IslesNorway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 05:56 PM
  #162
Denzil
NOLU
 
Denzil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vermont
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
I never said Norway were any good at football nor did anyone else. But at least they are better at football and much more competitive than they are at hockey. Being competitive in football much harder than in hockey.
There are 12 teams in the Olympics, Norway is one of them - I don't think Norway has a top twelve football team.

Denzil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 06:01 PM
  #163
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
 
TheMoreYouKnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Eire
Posts: 9,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denzil View Post
There are 12 teams in the Olympics, Norway is one of them - I don't think Norway has a top twelve football team.
Yeah but being top 12 in hockey is like being top 80 in football.

TheMoreYouKnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 06:04 PM
  #164
Tonka
9.5%?
 
Tonka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,451
vCash: 500
Their freaking starting goalie is a carpenter and he's playing against the top players in NA. My friend made a joke which I would not be surprised if it's true, and that is he bets a lot of these players play on the weekends as a pastime.

Tonka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 06:08 PM
  #165
Zombie Jesus
Registered User
 
Zombie Jesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denzil View Post
There are 12 teams in the Olympics, Norway is one of them - I don't think Norway has a top twelve football team.
Norway is ranked 32 in the world right now out of 203 teams in football. That is pretty damn good.

Zombie Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 06:14 PM
  #166
Kafka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,122
vCash: 500
36 indoor hockey rinks for the whole Country explains part of it.

Sweden and Finland are good, Danemark and Norway are not.

Kafka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 06:39 PM
  #167
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 16,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoot View Post
During the Norway-Canada game Doc Emrick kinda answered the question.

The Norwegians are excellent at individual sports, but not so good at teams sports.

It is surprising/odd because you'd think Norway would be on a par with Sweden and Finland.
Yeah, I didn't hear the part about not being very good at team sports, but that's a crazy broad generalization.

glovesave_35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 01:34 PM
  #168
kolde
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1
vCash: 500
I assume hockey isn't ingrained in their culture like it is here. There may also be climatic reasons, as well. Either way, to say that Norway isn't able to play team sports well isn't exactly accurate. They tend to dominate in Handball and football. Although they are currently #32, they were one of the best teams 10-20 years ago (4-7th).

kolde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 02:32 PM
  #169
Metamucil
Registered User
 
Metamucil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: mommy's basement
Country: United States
Posts: 187
vCash: 500
just watching the Swe/Belarus game and Doc Emerick mentioned that there are now 450 rinks and 40,000 registerd players in Sweden, this in contrast to the only 37 rinks in Norway.

he said there was an explosion of rinks after the womens and mens teams won medals , but then again he said the Norwegians don't do teams sports.


anyway, that's a huge difference, even though there are 9million Swedes and I'm guessing about 5million Norwegians.

Metamucil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 02:38 PM
  #170
tfong
Registered User
 
tfong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,760
vCash: 500
Heres a neat question. Koreans have been playing hockey since like forever (1947 i think) but are also not very good at it. Why is that?

They have excellent facilities in South Korea and apparently their fanbase numbers around 4000-5000 per university game which is like the amount of people that watch our major juniors.

tfong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 02:44 PM
  #171
slovakiasnextone
Registered User
 
slovakiasnextone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 5,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post
Heres a neat question. Koreans have been playing hockey since like forever (1947 i think) but are also not very good at it. Why is that?

They have excellent facilities in South Korea and apparently their fanbase numbers around 4000-5000 per university game which is like the amount of people that watch our major juniors.
Maybe it has to do with physical parameteres? donīt know, just guessing...

slovakiasnextone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 02:51 PM
  #172
slovakiasnextone
Registered User
 
slovakiasnextone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 5,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakyEuro View Post
I have always liked what the Englishmen say: Football is a gentleman sport played by hooligans, where Rugby is a hooligan sport played by gentlemen.

There is a huge part of truth to it. Many football and hcokey players are overpaid primadonas. And I can't stand all the diving. Actually over here in SVK the football and hockey gained a lot of bad reputation over the recent 2-3 years (to my dissatisfaction) due to corrupted matchups, intolerable starlet behavior of many players and overal dishonest atmosphere of acting, diving and air of softness.

Actually it's funny, because what you (or your countrymen for that matter) wrote here about hockey in Norway (if you watch hockey you're stupid, bully, etc.) works pretty much for football in the Czech Republic.

Hockey is considered to be the sport of the real men here.
When I think about our leagues, both football and hockey this works greta for both. Well, except for the 2-3 years part, like last 15-20 years would be more accurate.

slovakiasnextone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 02:54 PM
  #173
jekoh
Registered User
 
jekoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakiaforever View Post
Maybe it has to do with physical parameteres? donīt know, just guessing...
Yeah, obviously physical parameters are the reason there are only 1,247 registered players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakiaforever View Post
Heres a neat question. Koreans have been playing hockey since like forever (1947 i think) but are also not very good at it. Why is that?

They have excellent facilities in South Korea and apparently their fanbase numbers around 4000-5000 per university game which is like the amount of people that watch our major juniors.
How many people watch hockey in the US south vs how many pro players from there?

jekoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 02:25 AM
  #174
Hasbro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Hasbro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Rectangle
Country: Sami
Posts: 31,989
vCash: 500
Right now Norway, a coutry of 4.8 million is currently 3rd in the medal count. That should answer a few questions.

Hasbro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 05:03 AM
  #175
Wolfy*
The Hobbit Rules!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 3,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
Right now Norway, a coutry of 4.8 million is currently 3rd in the medal count. That should answer a few questions.
Eh...2nd that is

Norway became best nation of the Salt Lake City games, this can very well happen again.

As for Norwegian hockey, it's all about money and lack of interest. A soccer game can have a crowd of 16000, but the average for a hockey game in the top league is only 2000. Will this generate money? No...players need another job next to hockey. Then you can't develope many great players, and that's why Norway isn't a hockey power. And this will never change, 1000 rinks in Norway will not help if people don't care about buying tickets.

Wolfy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:32 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. Đ2015 All Rights Reserved.