HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Why is Norway not a hockey power?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-20-2010, 07:20 AM
  #176
Chimp
Registered User
 
Chimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In my food garden.
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Jesus View Post
Norway is ranked 32 in the world right now out of 203 teams in football. That is pretty damn good.
Yeah, but FIFA's world ranking is a damn joke. The unofficial ELO rating list is alot better. Interestingly enough, they are 32nd on that list as well.

Chimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 07:36 AM
  #177
Mathies_dane
Registered User
 
Mathies_dane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 83
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Mathies_dane Send a message via MSN to Mathies_dane
This has clearly been one of the most interesting threads to read. I think the problems with rinks is the same in Denmark and Norway. We are simply lacking them and there are none outside the big cities. Another problem for the development here in Denmark is all the red tape you have to go through before you can build a damn arena. It seems in Sweden you take four peaces of metal sheets and slaps up a hockey rink in between then boom hockey rink in minor town.

Another problem is the popularity of the sport in each country. You would think that with 4 players in the top league in the world would give Denmark a large advantage it just hasnt. The main reason for this has been that untill the 2009-2010 season all NHL matches were on satellite tv and it was finally moved to cable. For some comparison the NFL started on cable TV the year after the Falcons with Morten Andersen was in the Super Bowl and now that sport is one of the fastest growing sports in Denmark. I am sure the hockey will come along as well but its gonna take someone waking up and saying hey we can build these rinks easier and therefor attract more players.

Mathies_dane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 07:50 AM
  #178
BigT2002
Registered User
 
BigT2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: some other continent
Country: United States
Posts: 12,475
vCash: 50
Very interesting topic guys

BigT2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 07:57 PM
  #179
Hasbro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Hasbro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Rectangle
Country: Sami
Posts: 29,575
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Hmm... very interesting. Would give instant "credibility" and attractive salaries. Culture, immigration regulations, etc would be major hurdles, but I would say it would easily be financially viable as long as the team was atleast decently successful in the early stages. Japanese people wrote the book on consuming sports merchandise (I wouldn't be surprised if they sell as much Hanshin Tigers and Yomiuri Giants gear inside of Japan as the Yankees and Red Sox do worldwide), and the population density and interest in hockey (thinking about gate revenues here) would certainly be no problem. Finding somewhere for the arena would be the only problem, but there are train and subway stations going EVERYWHERE in that country, so access shouldn't pose a problem. And there are enough foreigners living there nowadays that a loyal following among that segment of the population might develop as well. Problem would be maintaining competitiveness while still finding spots for Japanese players. I certainly wouldn't anticipate having trouble finding a corporate sponsor/buyer.

And you're right about the J-league. Unfortunately that model is vastly overshadowed by pro baseball's system (which, of course, has all teams named after the largest corporations in the country, and NOT the cities they are based in; Hanshin=one of the biggest private railway companies - team based in suburban Osaka, Yomiuri=one of the biggest media conglomerates - team based in Tokyo, etc, and that's how they afford to pay salaries that very much compete with MLB salaries when you factor in that players can earn them without leaving Japan, and their families, behind). Both leagues, though, have a quota for max number of spots that can be occupied by "foreigners", as far as I know. Don't know how they'd implement that in a hockey league (I played on a team in Osaka from time to time when I first got there, but I never heard/asked if I was taking up a "foreigner" spot... it wasn't the "pro" league anyway though), of if they'd bother if it was just one team. They might have to though, if it's meant to be motivation for the minor ranks and not just a product to be consumed.

edit: you might be surprised to know that there are 142 Japanese nationals listed at eliteprospects.com, and many are playing in European 1st and 2nd divisions, NCAA, etc (trivia for you: a forward on Sidney Crosby's high school team the year he turned pro is from Kanagawa, Japan: Hidemasa Takahashi. Now playing at Lawrence University, NCAA). Most of them would probably have a lot of interest in possibly playing for a KHL team at home, and you could probably turn out a decent team, even with a max foreigner "quota".
So if China improves as a hockey country what effect do you think it will have on Japan and Korea?

Hasbro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 12:07 AM
  #180
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
So if China improves as a hockey country what effect do you think it will have on Japan and Korea?
Oh, the competition would step up big time. Those 3 are very competitive (especially Japan and Korea... see baseball and football/soccer), so if the Koreans ever felt the need to "catch up" to somebody (ex: China), Japan wouldn't let the 2 of them run to the front of the East Asian pack; provided they could convince the right people to put the money behind it, of course.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 12:10 AM
  #181
emb24*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathies_dane View Post
This has clearly been one of the most interesting threads to read. I think the problems with rinks is the same in Denmark and Norway. We are simply lacking them and there are none outside the big cities. Another problem for the development here in Denmark is all the red tape you have to go through before you can build a damn arena. It seems in Sweden you take four peaces of metal sheets and slaps up a hockey rink in between then boom hockey rink in minor town.

Another problem is the popularity of the sport in each country. You would think that with 4 players in the top league in the world would give Denmark a large advantage it just hasnt. The main reason for this has been that untill the 2009-2010 season all NHL matches were on satellite tv and it was finally moved to cable. For some comparison the NFL started on cable TV the year after the Falcons with Morten Andersen was in the Super Bowl and now that sport is one of the fastest growing sports in Denmark. I am sure the hockey will come along as well but its gonna take someone waking up and saying hey we can build these rinks easier and therefor attract more players.
the NFL is popular in Denmark? Really?

emb24* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 12:40 AM
  #182
um
Registered User
 
um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Kesler View Post
less population than toronto for the whole country..
torontos population is 2.5 million

um is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 01:14 AM
  #183
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by um View Post
torontos population is 2.5 million
Isn't the GTA supposed to break 6 million by next year though?

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 01:32 AM
  #184
Graveland
HONE YOUR CRAFT
 
Graveland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: United States
Posts: 11,191
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel View Post
As a Dane I take offense to this statement - and Norwegians would do the same, I presume. In fact, Swedes are arguably the worst in Scandinavia in handball (:-)), and that is even the case for both men and women (Finland is not a Scandinavian country).
Norway is not 'very good in soccer' either, but they are indeed better than Canada and probably as good as the US. In other words, it makes little sense to say that Norwegians are not doing well in team sports.

Also, just for reference (and I know Norway qualified, we didn't, but still possibly of interest), Denmark currently has 19 rinks, I think.
Explain or do you think that columbus discovered america too.

Graveland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 01:41 AM
  #185
IslesNorway
Registered User
 
IslesNorway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,781
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graveland View Post
Explain or do you think that columbus discovered america too.
Easy really: Scandinavia is Norway, Sweden and Denmark (the Scandianvian peninsula). Finland and Iceland are part of the Nordic countries, but technically not Scandinavia.

Great game for Norway v. Switzerland BTW. Should give some hope for the future of Norwegian hockey.

IslesNorway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 01:56 AM
  #186
lucky13
Iron Chic
 
lucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: selden...L.I.
Country: United States
Posts: 643
vCash: 500
what im wondering is if hockey is so unpopuler in norway how do they put a competitive enough team together to qualify for the 12 in the olympics??

lucky13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 02:23 AM
  #187
IslesNorway
Registered User
 
IslesNorway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,781
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky13 View Post
what im wondering is if hockey is so unpopuler in norway how do they put a competitive enough team together to qualify for the 12 in the olympics??
Hockey isn't a big sport worldwide and in Europe at least it lives oin the shadow of football (soccer). Only in Sweden, Russia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Finland and possibly Switzerland is it on par with it in terms of popularity. In all other countries it is miniscule by comparison.

IslesNorway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 02:27 AM
  #188
CASUAL KEV
Jack Adams™
 
CASUAL KEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sk, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,865
vCash: 500
They need to develop more Vikingstad's!

CASUAL KEV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 02:28 AM
  #189
SerbianHabs
Registered User
 
SerbianHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Moscow,Russia
Country: Serbia
Posts: 380
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
Hockey isn't a big sport worldwide and in Europe at least it lives oin the shadow of football (soccer). Only in Sweden, Russia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Finland and possibly Switzerland is it on par with it in terms of popularity. In all other countries it is miniscule by comparison.
You forgot Latvia who are Hockey mad and Belarus loves there hockey too.

SerbianHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 03:12 AM
  #190
Tender Rip
No cap on coaching!
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesBengt View Post
The claim that Norway would be better than USA and Sweden at soccer is just wrong. USA is always frowned upon in football just because Europeans want them to be bad.
No. They have been frowned in honest since FIFA began to allow two direct entries from CONCACAF to the World Cup, thus giving the US a virtual free ticket to join Mexico at the World Cup... and ludicrously inflated rankings as a result. Then 'we' (Europeans, I'm Danish) have to hear that the US has football cred because of it, and it just won't stand .

A Scandinavia vs. US snip from the all-time WC tables to illustrate further. Games, wins, draws, losses, goals, points.

8.Sweden 46 16 13 17 74- 69 61
24.Denmark 13 7 2 4 24- 18 23
25.United States 25 6 3 16 27- 51 21
40.Norway 8 2 3 3 7- 8 9

Sweden this time isn't going because they lost out to Denmark and Portugal. Norway came second in their group after Holland but didn't make the playoffs. Finland - to include them - lost out to Germany and Russia. Competition is just different.

That said - it is good for the global growth of the game that the US is there consistently, and there's no doubt that the days were the US was a mere pushover - they are gone, hopefully never to return.
I wonder what FIFA will do to insure the same thing happening for China. Not going to be easy to device a fail-proof scheme now they've lost out to North Korea. I can tell you guys that didn't go over well over here .

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 03:26 AM
  #191
Tobias
Registered User
 
Tobias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Country: Denmark
Posts: 1,514
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to Tobias
Quote:
Originally Posted by popovich View Post
the NFL is popular in Denmark? Really?
Yes it's quite popular actually. The main reason is of course Morten Andersen, the guy with most points in the NFL history. Live broadcast of games started out about 10 years ago, and this has created a solid foundation and fanbase, although it's still not a major sport by any means.


Last edited by Tobias: 02-21-2010 at 09:04 AM.
Tobias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 03:26 AM
  #192
Tender Rip
No cap on coaching!
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graveland View Post
Explain or do you think that columbus discovered america too.
Well, Finland is definitely a Nordic country, but the definitions of Scandinavia differ, as I'm sure you know.

Whereas the Northern part of Finland is part of the Scandinavian Peninsula, it's not cut and dry with the majority of the country not being so, and as opposed to Sweden, Denmark and Norway it is not a constitutional Monarchy just as it has a completely different language.

Today because of the many Nordic cooperation organisations and economic integration it has become quite normal to include Finland in 'Scandinavia', but when I was a little-pre-teen schoolboy 20 years ago, Finland was not considered a Scandinavian country in Denmark at least.

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 07:21 AM
  #193
BladesofSTEELwFIRE
Registered User
 
BladesofSTEELwFIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
There are several reasons why hockey has never really caught on in Norway.

One of the main being the lack of rinks. In Finland and Sweden rinks are scattered all across the country and kids grow up playing hockey. In Norway, only in the Oslo area and a couple of other places are there any rinks at all. This of course ensures that the sport doesn't carry any nationwide interest.

Secondly- and this is important - hockey carries a bit of a bad rep in Norway. It is considered a somewhat brutish sport played by thugs and buillies. If you live in a hockey area there's a good chance that your local school bullies and self-proclaimed tough guys are also hockey players. This may seem like an unfair assumption but it carries a grerat deal of truth nonetheless. At the school where I work there have been cases of the local hockey coaches telling players that being aggressive at school benefits them on the ice (!!). Needless to say that doesn't enhance the sport's reputation.

Thirdly, there is no media exposure to speak of. Some games are televised on Pay TV channels but no one is watching anyway. If games had been shown on national tv it might have been different, but newspapers and tv don't really care much for the sport.
Lack of exposure = lack of interest.

A fourth and final explanation lies in the fact that other sports are more popular among kids. Soccer is the dominant sport and skiing is in our blood so that takes most of the kids time. That coupled with the lack of international success for the hockey team creates a viscious circle for the sport.

Whoever said that Norway aren't good at team sports obviously doesn't know much about Norwegian sports. The national soccer team have qualified for World Championships and European Championships in the past and are hugely popular. The same goes for handball. Norwegians aren't particularly geared towards individual sports, at least not more than Finns and Swedes, it's just that skiing's what we're brought up on - the same way Canadians are taught to play hockey.
Good explanation. Whatever happened to Epsen Knutsen? He was the only Norweigan in the NHL for a while and the most popular Norweigan ever in the NHL.

A slapshot of his actually killed a little girl in a game once but it was not intentional of course.

BladesofSTEELwFIRE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 07:31 AM
  #194
Mathies_dane
Registered User
 
Mathies_dane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cape Girardeau, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 83
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Mathies_dane Send a message via MSN to Mathies_dane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
Yes it's quite popular actually. The main reason is of course Morten AndersEN, the guy with most points in the NFL history. Live broadcast of games started out about 10 years ago, and this has created a solid foundation and fanbase, although it's still not a major sport by any means.
Tobias is being very modest about the NFL in Denmark. We are in fact the only country outside of the united states that carry the same amount of games as is available to any American. We show one early game one late game plus Sunday night and Monday night. + Thanksgiving and all games in the playoffs.

Mathies_dane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 07:35 AM
  #195
CanadaBacon
 
CanadaBacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathies_dane View Post
Tobias is being very modest about the NFL in Denmark. We are in fact the only country outside of the united states that carry the same amount of games as is available to any American. We show one early game one late game plus Sunday night and Monday night. + Thanksgiving and all games in the playoffs.
Psst....Canada shows two or three different early games, two late afternoon games and the Sunday and Monday night.

CanadaBacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 07:37 AM
  #196
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
 
TheMoreYouKnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Eire
Posts: 8,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathies_dane View Post
Tobias is being very modest about the NFL in Denmark. We are in fact the only country outside of the united states that carry the same amount of games as is available to any American. We show one early game one late game plus Sunday night and Monday night. + Thanksgiving and all games in the playoffs.
With the help of ESPN America that's what everyone in Europe can get nowadays if they subscribe to the right cable service or satellite service.

TheMoreYouKnow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 07:49 AM
  #197
Hockeynomad
Registered User
 
Hockeynomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 518
vCash: 500
Norwegian hockey players are for the most part true amateurs, who have other occupations that sustain them and play hockey on the side.

Hockeynomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 09:18 AM
  #198
romelson
Registered User
 
romelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Örnsköldsvik
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,017
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to romelson
Why is Canada not a powerhouse at cross-country skiing? Figure that out and you have the answer to the question in the thread headline.

romelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 11:12 AM
  #199
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by romelson View Post
Why is Canada not a powerhouse at cross-country skiing? Figure that out and you have the answer to the question in the thread headline.
Seriously though. And we probably have one of the highest numbers of rifles per capita in the world, so why are we so weak at biathalon as well? You'd think shooting and skiing would be a match made in heaven for Canadians.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2010, 11:17 AM
  #200
Eisen
Registered User
 
Eisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Eugene
Country: Germany
Posts: 6,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Seriously though. And we probably have one of the highest numbers of rifles per capita in the world, so why are we so weak at biathalon as well? You'd think shooting and skiing would be a match made in heaven for Canadians.
There is always Myriam Bedard, but she was a bit exotic.

Eisen is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:03 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.