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Switzerland vs. Canada - 5:30pm MT

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Old
02-19-2010, 10:59 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by RKD View Post
After the first three rounds are completed, the teams shoot in reverse order.
Order yes, but not necessarily with the same players. For instance OV shot 3 times in the Shootout for Russia. Again I really don't like the format and it over accentuates one player in a team game sport.

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02-19-2010, 11:00 AM
  #252
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[QUOTE=Replacement;23998621]Not sure why people assume my assessment is so off. Team Canada looked like pure **** last night and couldn't get in sync. As Canadians we seem to automatically think that every tournament the team will gear it up just at the right time and be worldbeaters.

Overall how has that been generally working for us.

Anybody who watched the Canada game and Slovakia-Russ game must realize that even the Slovaks are playing better than us and with a very talented team.

We're no longer the big kid on the block and I'm not sure that Canada ever gets out of the mindset of that they just have to show up to W.

I think we'll beat the US but that we will have significant problems with opponents after that.

So, your predicting were going to lose or your forecasting 'significant problems'?

Ifs its the latter...I have to tell you...your not exactly enlightening anyone.

If its the former, I respect your opinon...but just come forward and make your call.

Your a better man than me...I can't say one way or the other at this point.

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02-19-2010, 11:11 AM
  #253
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I liked the way the Swiss played last night. They played a very Canadian style. Worked hard all night, forechecked aggressively, and got a great goaltending performance. That is/was our formula for years in international competitions when we couldn't send out best players to tournaments.

I don't know what people are expecting. If it takes that much of an effort to lose to us then we should be flattered. Hiller was spectacular and we only scored 2 on the night. That can happen on a night when it is all down to one game.

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02-19-2010, 11:12 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
Not sure why people assume my assessment is so off. Team Canada looked like pure **** last night and couldn't get in sync. As Canadians we seem to automatically think that every tournament the team will gear it up just at the right time and be worldbeaters.

Overall how has that been generally working for us.

Anybody who watched the Canada game and Slovakia-Russ game must realize that even the Slovaks are playing better than us and with a very talented team.

We're no longer the big kid on the block and I'm not sure that Canada ever gets out of the mindset of that they just have to show up to W.

I think we'll beat the US but that we will have significant problems with opponents after that.

So, your predicting were going to lose or your forecasting 'significant problems'?

Ifs its the latter...I have to tell you...your not exactly enlightening anyone.

If its the former, I respect your opinon...but just come forward and make your call.

Your a better man than me...I can't say one way or the other at this point.
I realize I'm not saying that much with this. My posts in the thread have been a reaction to several posts by others saying that this game against the Swiss was basically a good thing we can be thankful for as it wakes up the club at the right time.

Yet if I would have predicted a 2-2 tie going into the shootout there would be a ****storm of negativity here saying how pessimistic that was. But now its a good thing?

All I'm saying is that the Canadians completely wasted a game not finding their rhythm in a short knockout tournament. That I don't see the game as a positive. Not sure why I would.

Of course nobody knows how it plays out but this game wasn't a line development, team development kind of performance. It wasn't getting into sync and didn't look like that at any point.
It looked like a club that didn't have much of a clue what each other would be doing.

Now we go to the US game with a team still looking for its game.

Is that really such an unreasonable view?

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02-19-2010, 11:21 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Order yes, but not necessarily with the same players. For instance OV shot 3 times in the Shootout for Russia. Again I really don't like the format and it over accentuates one player in a team game sport.
Oh I know, but his question was why they shot twice in a row.

And I totally agree about the players shooting multiple times thing. To add to that, since the shootout was implemented I've never been a fan of having only three shooters. Just like the reason you mentioned for having the same player shoot twice, it turns the skills competition to even more of an individual aspect.

I've always wanted five shooters, because it incorporates more of the team and is a bit of a preventative measure for having one dominant shooter, or even luck. In a three-man shootout, if one guy bobbles the puck for one reason or another, your team is at a serious disadvantage; far too much emphasis on one shooter, and that only gets enhanced in an international tournament when that one shooter can keep going. In the NHL it's a little funny because a lot of shootouts go into the sudden death rounds anyway...

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02-19-2010, 11:31 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I realize I'm not saying that much with this. My posts in the thread have been a reaction to several posts by others saying that this game against the Swiss was basically a good thing we can be thankful for as it wakes up the club at the right time.

Yet if I would have predicted a 2-2 tie going into the shootout there would be a ****storm of negativity here saying how pessimistic that was. But now its a good thing?

All I'm saying is that the Canadians completely wasted a game not finding their rhythm in a short knockout tournament. That I don't see the game as a positive. Not sure why I would.

Of course nobody knows how it plays out but this game wasn't a line development, team development kind of performance. It wasn't getting into sync and didn't look like that at any point.
It looked like a club that didn't have much of a clue what each other would be doing.

Now we go to the US game with a team still looking for its game.

Is that really such an unreasonable view?
Yes it is. Canada fires 45 shots and alot of them good ones and without Hillier standing on his head the score could have been much worse. Of course we didn't score but in the end we won. I can't think of much else they really could do. Canada Dominated that third period and could not get rewarded even with a fluky goal(like the kind the Swiss scored).

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02-19-2010, 11:39 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by RKD View Post
Oh I know, but his question was why they shot twice in a row.

And I totally agree about the players shooting multiple times thing. To add to that, since the shootout was implemented I've never been a fan of having only three shooters. Just like the reason you mentioned for having the same player shoot twice, it turns the skills competition to even more of an individual aspect.

I've always wanted five shooters, because it incorporates more of the team and is a bit of a preventative measure for having one dominant shooter, or even luck. In a three-man shootout, if one guy bobbles the puck for one reason or another, your team is at a serious disadvantage; far too much emphasis on one shooter, and that only gets enhanced in an international tournament when that one shooter can keep going. In the NHL it's a little funny because a lot of shootouts go into the sudden death rounds anyway...
Agreed. More is better and why not? It would take 1 more minute for 5 shooters than 3. Value added entertainment.

I like the shootouts that go long rounds. I kind of like the attrition, "is anybody going to score" feel to it and seeing what less likely candidates do with the opportunity.

Seeing OV go 3 times was like an unfar joke and accordingly I was happy he only scored once.

This is a team sport and the game should be treated as such and even in the shootout. Having one guy go 3X isn't consistent with that.

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02-19-2010, 11:44 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Yes it is. Canada fires 45 shots and alot of them good ones and without Hillier standing on his head the score could have been much worse. Of course we didn't score but in the end we won. I can't think of much else they really could do. Canada Dominated that third period and could not get rewarded even with a fluky goal(like the kind the Swiss scored).
I see it differently. People forget that in the Norway game Canada had the same problems early but made adjustments and started getting greasy and in the slot, in front of the net, strong on the forecheck, forcing errors.
I didn't see that against the Swiss. I saw us losing a lot of puck battles against the Swiss.

We made Hiller and the Swiss D look allworld. WE didn't play our game and couldn't seem to get it on track.
It was like watching the Oilers not being able to execute plays.

LMHF if he reviewed this game would be likely going ballistic.

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02-19-2010, 11:55 AM
  #259
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I realize I'm not saying that much with this. My posts in the thread have been a reaction to several posts by others saying that this game against the Swiss was basically a good thing we can be thankful for as it wakes up the club at the right time.

Yet if I would have predicted a 2-2 tie going into the shootout there would be a ****storm of negativity here saying how pessimistic that was. But now its a good thing?

All I'm saying is that the Canadians completely wasted a game not finding their rhythm in a short knockout tournament. That I don't see the game as a positive. Not sure why I would.

Of course nobody knows how it plays out but this game wasn't a line development, team development kind of performance. It wasn't getting into sync and didn't look like that at any point.
It looked like a club that didn't have much of a clue what each other would be doing.

Now we go to the US game with a team still looking for its game.

Is that really such an unreasonable view?
[/QUOTE]

I think we might have the best line in the tournament with Thornton, Heatley & Marleau. I think the Coach was able to identify this already and last night he tried to move on & find who his 2nd line will be. That, my friend, is a process of elimination.

Thats what was going on last night.

Iggy?

My guess is his temperature was up after he got kabonged and Babcock decided to let him do a slow burn and turn him loose versus USA for the full effect.

Nash & Crosby are the other 2/3's of that line & we will see Crosby come alive next game.

I am not bugaboo free, however.

I insist this powerplay has to put waaay more fury into their shots and force the opposing PK to make the kind of shotblocks you regret for the remainder of the game or maybe even your waking life.

The Swiss 'wanted' that game. Im not suprised...but get the puck back to Weber & Keith on the PP and ask someone: How BAD do you want it?

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02-19-2010, 11:56 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I see it differently. People forget that in the Norway game Canada had the same problems early but made adjustments and started getting greasy and in the slot, in front of the net, strong on the forecheck, forcing errors.
I didn't see that against the Swiss. I saw us losing a lot of puck battles against the Swiss.

We made Hiller and the Swiss D look allworld. WE didn't play our game and couldn't seem to get it on track.
It was like watching the Oilers not being able to execute plays.

LMHF if he reviewed this game would be likely going ballistic.
I don't think so. I view the game differently. Hiller was world class last night. On any given night a goalie can make or break teams. We had alot of "greasy" chances we just couldn't get them in. Nash is particularly snake bitten right now, he had alot of great chances in the last two games but is not cashing in.

Actually I thought they forced alot of errors out of the swiss. They actually got a lot of powerplay time early on as well because of that.

The Difference between the Swiss and the Norwiegens is that the Swiss played small ice Hockey and Norway was trying to play big ice hockey. The Swiss forecheck was the best thing besides Hiller all night. The Norwiegens sat back all night and that only works on the big ice allowing shots from the sides which is pretty typical in Europe. With less room on the small ice it works against you. The Swiss on the other hand were agressive all night, played high on the Defense,Weathered the early Powerplays and got a great goaltending performance. That is the catalyst for an upset in my opinion and even then THEY STILL LOST.

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02-19-2010, 11:58 AM
  #261
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Not sure if this came up as I didn't look through the entire thread.

I have always had a great respect for Babcock as a coach but unless Iginla was/is hurt he should have gotten and be getting a hell of a lot more ice time and should be playing with Crosby and Nash.

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02-19-2010, 11:59 AM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
I don't think so. I view the game differently. Hiller was world class last night. On any given night a goalie can make or break teams. We had alot of "greasy" chances we just couldn't get them in. Nash is particularly snake bitten right now, he had alot of great chances in the last two games but is not cashing in.

Actually I thought they forced alot of errors out of the swiss. They actually got a lot of powerplay time early on as well because of that.
The Difference between the Swiss and the Norwiegens is that the Swiss played small ice Hockey and Norway was trying to play big ice hockey. The Swiss forecheck was the best thing besides Hiller all night. The Norwiegens sat back all night and that only works on the big ice allowing shots from the sides which is pretty typical in Europe. With less room on the small ice it works against you. The Swiss on the other hand were agressive all night, played high on the Defense,Weathered the early Powerplays and got a great goaltending performance. That is the catalyst for an upset in my opinion and even then THEY STILL LOST.
Seemed like the calls were not right there later in the game...but the Swiss did a saavy job a=of tangling up with our fellas' and making it look like an accident at times.

Heatley's breakaway...he was hacked...but it was a 'one-hander' they got away with,IMO.

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02-19-2010, 11:59 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by oilermeister View Post
Not sure if this came up as I didn't look through the entire thread.

I have always had a great respect for Babcock as a coach but unless Iginla was/is hurt he should have gotten and be getting a hell of a lot more ice time and should be playing with Crosby and Nash.
I thought Iginla was MIA in that first period. I was wondering if he is hurt or not.

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02-19-2010, 12:50 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
I don't think so. I view the game differently. Hiller was world class last night. On any given night a goalie can make or break teams. We had alot of "greasy" chances we just couldn't get them in. Nash is particularly snake bitten right now, he had alot of great chances in the last two games but is not cashing in.

Actually I thought they forced alot of errors out of the swiss. They actually got a lot of powerplay time early on as well because of that.

The Difference between the Swiss and the Norwiegens is that the Swiss played small ice Hockey and Norway was trying to play big ice hockey. The Swiss forecheck was the best thing besides Hiller all night. The Norwiegens sat back all night and that only works on the big ice allowing shots from the sides which is pretty typical in Europe. With less room on the small ice it works against you. The Swiss on the other hand were agressive all night, played high on the Defense,Weathered the early Powerplays and got a great goaltending performance. That is the catalyst for an upset in my opinion and even then THEY STILL LOST.
I believe the Swiss are al much bigger stronger team than the Norwegians are.
They played the trap well and for some reason we did not want to attack the red line with speed dump it in hard to turn them around and just follow the dump in hard to recover it. I saw Boyle do it once later in the third period. Also, when we turn the puck over in our zone we did not transition with any speed we slowed up and let them get back in the nuetral zone to trap it up. Need to play with more speed and aggression plain and simple. I believe we call that CANADIAN HOCKEY!!

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02-19-2010, 01:08 PM
  #265
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I believe the Swiss are al much bigger stronger team than the Norwegians are.
They played the trap well and for some reason we did not want to attack the red line with speed dump it in hard to turn them around and just follow the dump in hard to recover it. I saw Boyle do it once later in the third period. Also, when we turn the puck over in our zone we did not transition with any speed we slowed up and let them get back in the nuetral zone to trap it up. Need to play with more speed and aggression plain and simple. I believe we call that CANADIAN HOCKEY!!
I agree with this as well.

Hiller wasn't/doesn't get out behind his net to choke off the hard-around shoot-ins. I noted this last night after the 1rst period when Canada WAS getting the puck bck off those type(s) of zone entries.

But your right...Canada slowed down the neutral zone and elected instead to carry the puck inside the zone and it didn't really help build cycle play, IMO.

They should have stayed with what was working in the 1rst period and continued to rifle it around the boards...especially given the shady ice conditions as the game went along.

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02-19-2010, 01:16 PM
  #266
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I have to be honest, I was happy that the Swiss put up such a huge fight. This is the first time I've ever really not cared if we win Gold, not because I don't want Canada to win gold, but because I just can't get behind so many of the players on the team. Are they good players, yes... but (and this is all just my opinion) I feel an air of jerkiness surrounding this team. They're just not likeable presonalities in my mind (save a few respected players).

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02-19-2010, 01:46 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by oilermeister View Post
I believe the Swiss are al much bigger stronger team than the Norwegians are.
They played the trap well and for some reason we did not want to attack the red line with speed dump it in hard to turn them around and just follow the dump in hard to recover it.
It didn't seem to me they played the trap. They were extremely aggressive forecheking and backcheking and made good decisions with the puck all night. Very very few turnovers in their own end.

After seeing the swiss against the US I thought Canada would just walk all over them. I think more than Canada playing bad (which I didn't think they did) was that the swiss were a different team than the one playing the americans. Sure, we weren't exactly at our best but give credit to the Swiss for a fantastic game.

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02-19-2010, 02:23 PM
  #268
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I think beating the Swiss was strictly about exorcising demons. The amount of pressure was phenomenal. Obviously they're no longer chumps in the international thick of things, not to mention Hiller was lights out. I think Canada is going to crush USA on Sunday. Taking care of the Swiss was massive - everyone knew, it's like taking a load off. Not to mention the US won't be sitting back and playing that stiflingly defensive Swiss style of game, they will be forchecking hard and trying to score, they won't be intimidated. If someone wants to run and gun with Canada I think this that much better for us and increases our odds.

Huge amount of adversity in that game and they managed okay, for such a young and new team. BTW Sidney Crosby is a machine and they need to play this kid more without question. He is a ****ing beast.

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02-19-2010, 02:56 PM
  #269
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I'd go so far as to say that if Canada loses to the US that Canada is toast in this tournament and will finish well out of the medals. I'm expecting(hoping for) a cracker of a game from them and if they don't have similar energy in the US game like the Swiss showed in their game then it's over for Canada and we're an also ran in this tournament.

Canada certainly has the talent and tools... now they just need the fire and desire.

Teams like Slovakia, the Swiss etc know they have to work their butts off to win as they don't have the same overall talent levels as the "big teams". I don't know if Canada as a team can actually pull that type of desire and determination out of themselves. Maybe they are just "pro hockey" players now and their collective $125 million in salary has made their level of desire diminish and really subconsciously they can't get themselves up to the task of playing not just for money but for "their country" with pride and true desire and passion. That's not an easy thing to bring out in players... you either have that attitude and inner desire like the Swiss obviously do... or you don't like Canada doesn't at the moment.

I'm hoping we see that type of play going forward but I'm basically 50-50 on whether or not that actually happens. I still have faith though and I've gotta believe there is still enough desire buried in the back of their minds from growing up playing in all those bantam and midget and junior rinks and dreaming about playing in the NHL and representing your country and being the best in the world. Maybe that's a bit sappy but that's what they need to actually focus on and channel to be able to win the gold medal.

It takes more than just talent to win the Gold and you'll be taken down quickly by a team that actually WANTS to win and fights for it with every shift rather than just going through the motions and playing well as a team.

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02-19-2010, 03:08 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Yes it is. Canada fires 45 shots and alot of them good ones and without Hillier standing on his head the score could have been much worse. Of course we didn't score but in the end we won. I can't think of much else they really could do. Canada Dominated that third period and could not get rewarded even with a fluky goal(like the kind the Swiss scored).
This game wasnt just a hot goalie and a couple fluky goals. Canada was dominated in the second period. Totally outclassed by a team that has one forward who played in the nhl. If you are brushing off this performance as insignificant then I would hope the Canadian players dont share your views. Otherwise it could be a short, disappointing tournament on home soil.

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02-19-2010, 05:11 PM
  #271
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This game wasnt just a hot goalie and a couple fluky goals. Canada was dominated in the second period. Totally outclassed by a team that has one forward who played in the nhl. If you are brushing off this performance as insignificant then I would hope the Canadian players dont share your views. Otherwise it could be a short, disappointing tournament on home soil.
Agree. I know we got 45-whatever shots, but I don't really think Hiller stood on his head that much like everyone is saying. This wasn't Hasek against Canada or even Joseph against the Stars in 97. We had 18 shots in the third, but most were not tipped, screened, from in close or even produced rebounds. Save that one glove save i never got the feeling Hiller was stoning us. More that we were pissing things away. Not sure why - maybe a season of Oiler hockey has jaded me.

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