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Hockey Canada's fundamental philosphy (roster talk/omissions)

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Old
02-22-2010, 12:41 AM
  #251
Sky04
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
With the way we dominated the game, 45 shots and 3 goals should give us a win. There is no way that USA should have scored more than 1 goal - OK, maybe 2.
True, but a lot of shots came when pressure was on us, as well as that last goal. Seriously with the talent we have it's amazing how unmotivated we look until the final 10-15 minutes.

Nash-Crosby-Iginla
Doughty-Keith

applying pressure like they did was amazing, they totally controlled the game during that brief time, sad thing is that was the first time this tournament I've seen them go all out and utilizing the talents around them effectively. Most of the time they look like they're playing an all-star game, wanting to make every goal come from fancy passing play.

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02-22-2010, 01:58 AM
  #252
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Morrow and Bergeron

What is everyone's deal with these two guys? You'd think that they were clubbing baby seals at centre ice with the amount of venom they're catching.

Morrow and Bergeron were brought along to be fourth-liners and penalty killers, add a bit of physicality to the lineup, and maybe score the odd goal. That's what they're doing. Morrow's line with Iginla and Toews looked great every time it was out there, putting pressure on the Americans and creating chances with their work; as for Bergeron, he wasn't allowed to play his role much, as I kept seeing other guys taking - and losing - the key own-zone faceoffs that he's there to take. I mean, when you're playing five minutes a game, there's only so much blame you can take for a loss, unless you're shooting pucks into your own net.

Personally, I think that, if you're looking to dump on players, don't pick a couple of guys who are playing the roles they need to play. Why not dump on the Perry-Getzlaf-Staal line that skated around uselessly all night long, only being noticed when Perry slacked off on a backcheck and wound up causing the Americans' fifth goal? Why not dump on Crosby and Nash, who have been complete failures during every shift where Iginla isn't lined up with them? Maybe Pronger and Niedermayer, who each look to be about 500 years older than they are?

I swear... People are acting like Habs fans or something. The top guns are worthless and lazy, so let's blame the checking line and depth players! Doesn't make sense to me.

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02-22-2010, 02:00 AM
  #253
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Morrow was one of the better players last night. He created the Heatley goal all on his own. Thornton has no business on Team Canada, if they blacklisted Savard despite points they should do the same for Joe. Getzlaf and Perry look useless as well.

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02-22-2010, 02:02 AM
  #254
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I agree. Bergeron and Morrow are among the last guys you should blame for this loss. People seem to be ganging up on team selection.

IMO Thornton and Perry need not be on this team.

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02-22-2010, 02:05 AM
  #255
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People think that Stamkos should be there instead of bergeron but with bergeron only playing 5 minutes where would the ice time for stamkos come from?

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02-22-2010, 02:06 AM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
People think that Stamkos should be there instead of bergeron but with bergeron only playing 5 minutes where would the ice time for stamkos come from?
He would replace Perry.

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02-22-2010, 02:08 AM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbert View Post
What is everyone's deal with these two guys? You'd think that they were clubbing baby seals at centre ice with the amount of venom they're catching.

Morrow and Bergeron were brought along to be fourth-liners and penalty killers, add a bit of physicality to the lineup, and maybe score the odd goal. That's what they're doing. Morrow's line with Iginla and Toews looked great every time it was out there, putting pressure on the Americans and creating chances with their work; as for Bergeron, he wasn't allowed to play his role much, as I kept seeing other guys taking - and losing - the key own-zone faceoffs that he's there to take. I mean, when you're playing five minutes a game, there's only so much blame you can take for a loss, unless you're shooting pucks into your own net.

Personally, I think that, if you're looking to dump on players, don't pick a couple of guys who are playing the roles they need to play. Why not dump on the Perry-Getzlaf-Staal line that skated around uselessly all night long, only being noticed when Perry slacked off on a backcheck and wound up causing the Americans' fifth goal? Why not dump on Crosby and Nash, who have been complete failures during every shift where Iginla isn't lined up with them? Maybe Pronger and Niedermayer, who each look to be about 500 years older than they are?

I swear... People are acting like Habs fans or something. The top guns are worthless and lazy, so let's blame the checking line and depth players! Doesn't make sense to me.
Thank you. I didn't want to say anything because I knew I would just be dismissed as a Stars homer, but the heat that Morrow has been taking on this board is simply unfair. He has done exactly what the team needs him to do. Personally, I think Canada could use a few more players with Morrows' grit and determination.

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02-22-2010, 02:11 AM
  #258
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Bergeron is beyond useless. WOw he wins faceoffs? WHOOPIEEE?!! Toews has the best faceoff percentage in the tournament amongst Canadians and Crosby has been just as good as Bergeron all season long. Bergeron brings nothing to the table. In a tournament where you're playing against the BEST goalies in the world, your goal on EVERY shift should be to create scoring opportunities. By playing Bergeron you're much confirming that for that shift your goal is to play a non-aggressive defensive style. Can't afford that where muster over 80 shots against Hiller and Miller and muster only 5 goals.

Didn't like the Morrow pick either, but at least plays with a ton of grit and his effort tonight led to a direct goal for us. His heart is useful for games against the Americans. Bergeron in contrast brings minimal skill and no grit. USELESS!

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02-22-2010, 02:23 AM
  #259
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Bergeron is beyond useless. WOw he wins faceoffs? WHOOPIEEE?!! Toews has the best faceoff percentage in the tournament amongst Canadians and Crosby has been just as good as Bergeron all season long. Bergeron brings nothing to the table. In a tournament where you're playing against the BEST goalies in the world, your goal on EVERY shift should be to create scoring opportunities. By playing Bergeron you're much confirming that for that shift your goal is to play a non-aggressive defensive style. Can't afford that where muster over 80 shots against Hiller and Miller and muster only 5 goals.

Didn't like the Morrow pick either, but at least plays with a ton of grit and his effort tonight led to a direct goal for us. His heart is useful for games against the Americans. Bergeron in contrast brings minimal skill and no grit. USELESS!
you forgot the ROB *** ZAMUNER.

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02-22-2010, 02:39 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by saskyoil View Post
I agree. Bergeron and Morrow are among the last guys you should blame for this loss. People seem to be ganging up on team selection.

IMO Thornton and Perry need not be on this team.
But Getzlaf should be on this team?

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02-22-2010, 02:42 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Morrow was one of the better players last night. He created the Heatley goal all on his own. Thornton has no business on Team Canada, if they blacklisted Savard despite points they should do the same for Joe. Getzlaf and Perry look useless as well.
I honestly believe. If Babcock, Yserman...and his buddies picked 5 Team Canada's......they wouldn't pick Savard for any of those 5 teams.

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02-22-2010, 02:44 AM
  #262
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OP was 100% right, bang on. Too many great goalies in this tournament, it should have been a goal to have a line that can score on EVERY shift.

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02-22-2010, 02:49 AM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Morrow was one of the better players last night. He created the Heatley goal all on his own. Thornton has no business on Team Canada, if they blacklisted Savard despite points they should do the same for Joe. Getzlaf and Perry look useless as well.
Are you watching the same game? Do you think maybe Toews had something to do with Heatley's goal when he got the puck behind the net and with a guy on his back came out, turned and got off a shot on net that left Heatley a cookie to tap in? Where exactly was Morrow's lone play responsible for that goal?

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02-22-2010, 02:50 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
you forgot the ROB *** ZAMUNER.
that goes perfectly with what the OP discussed. this mentality that we have to take lesser talented player to fill an apparent "role" that doesn't revolve around putting the puck in the net. Canada's most talented players have enough skill to perform these specialized tasks. We're wasting roster spots with these guys that aren't as talented.

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02-22-2010, 02:52 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by RevenueSharing View Post
that goes perfectly with what the OP discussed. this mentality that we have to take lesser talented player to fill an apparent "role" that doesn't revolve around putting the puck in the net. Canada's most talented players have enough skill to perform these specialized tasks. We're wasting roster spots with these guys that aren't as talented.
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Originally Posted by RevenueSharing View Post
Bergeron and Krejci have been the worst.
Halak, Plekanec, Markov and Kostitsyn have been the best.
you shouldnt be taken seriously

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02-22-2010, 02:53 AM
  #266
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Can anyone explain to me, again....

.....why Marc Savard was never given 1 second of consideration.....for team Canada? I know....according to Team Canada's "Braintrust"?, and 99% of the posters on here.... Savard is a house leaguer....but believe it or not...there are 2 or 3 people who actually think he could have helped team Canada with his amazing offensive skills. I know that's an insane comment I'm saying(because he's nowhere near as talented or good as Thornton, Getzlaf......).....but I'm just throwing this thought out there.

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02-22-2010, 02:54 AM
  #267
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You already have most of the superstars in the league on your team. Wouldn't make a difference.

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02-22-2010, 02:55 AM
  #268
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Savard? Better question is why Stamkos and St. Louis isn't there. Instead you have Patrice Bergeron and Cory... Cory... Cory Perry of all players.

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02-22-2010, 02:56 AM
  #269
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After the Kesler goal, Perry should sit for the rest of the tournament - that was utterly disgraceful.

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Old
02-22-2010, 04:08 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
People think that Stamkos should be there instead of bergeron but with bergeron only playing 5 minutes where would the ice time for stamkos come from?
Put Stamkos on Crosby's left and just feed that right-handed one timer all night.

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02-22-2010, 05:00 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Mancini0518 View Post
People think that Stamkos should be there instead of bergeron but with bergeron only playing 5 minutes where would the ice time for stamkos come from?
When you put up points and start taking over games, a funny thing happens, you get ice time.

Bergeron isnt/wasnt ever a threat to do that and therefore doesnt get ice time.

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02-22-2010, 07:35 AM
  #272
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When your best player is the youngest (Doughty) you know you have problems. Brodeur was playing awful leading up to these games. Now the coaches have every excuse to ride Luongo all the way like it should have been from day 1.

Someone explain why Doan wasnt chosen over Morrow? Or why was Bergeron selected over St.Louis? I dont understand these guys!
You echo my thoughts exactly. How is St. Louis not on this roster?

Also, and this is not a Crosby bash, this a bash to the player wearing #87 for Team Canada, but he has been invisible. He has one rush up the ice per game and then he is done. His strength, his passing, has been no where to be seen, and I have not seen him win one battle along the boards for the puck, he NEVER loses these battles in Pens games. I get plus/minus can be misleading but he was -3 yesterday and you noticed him and what he did/did not contribute to the goal against. Also he and Nash have no chemistry whatsoever.

All that being said Team Canada may still win gold, but not without some tinkering.

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02-22-2010, 07:40 AM
  #273
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Hockey Canada gets it wrong again. You'd think they'd learn, but nope, keep coming back with the same dumbass selection errors. I have been calling for months!!!

Hcoeky Canada builds their team like it's for a NHL best of 7 series, and to "stop" big bad team Russia. So they put on all these "gritty" 2 way checkers over more talented players. OH LOOK WHAT A SURPISE, Canada can't buy goals when they run into a hot goalie. What a great idea to bring guys like Seabrook, Morrow & Bergeron over top 15 NHL forwards!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrit didn't do much last night for them vs. Hiller, sure coulda used a nice unstoppable Stamkos or Green one timer from the face off circle tho!

Where have I seen this movie before? Oh right, all those other times that team Canada and other favourite teams lose when they run into hot goalies. At least when Sweden & Russia do it, they have already brought all their best guys (tho Russia maybe coulda used Kovalev's touch last night). Team Canada left 5 of the top 25 NHL forwards at home, including 3 in this year's top 10, and bring a bunch of guys way down the list instead because they are grrrrrrrrrity!! Forget that they are younger, have never won anything, and nowhere near as dominant as the guys staying at home.

Hockey Canada just doesn't get it, this isn't a best of 7 series, you come up short in scoring in ONE GAME and you're gone. Having a dominant stanely cup winning line Richards-Lecavalier-St Louis on your bench would sure be more likely to get something going than Morrow-Richards-Toews. Woulda been nice to have Stamkos' DEVESTATING one timer and Mike Green doing his thang when Canada was going like 1 for 8 on the PP too.

History repeating itself here, and the genius braintrust at hockey Canada is 100% to blame.
USA went out and got the best GM (read smartest) to build a team specific to this tournament. Canada got an old player to pick an all-star team. It's becoming obvious.

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Old
02-22-2010, 07:40 AM
  #274
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This team lacks Paul Kariya, Mario Lemieux, Steve Yzerman and Brendan Shanahan.

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02-22-2010, 08:08 AM
  #275
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Like this team is nutty if you consider the players left out of it. Right? But what if Canada didn't have the "rest", but like the depth of most other countrys. And were forced to ice this team. On paper, they would still match up against just about anyone. Or they would match up against anyone. And it have more of a natrual balance. Like a real "4th line" et c.

Ryan Smyth-Sid Crosby-Rich Nash//More experience with Smyth. Would come more natrual for him to take on a smaller role
Pronger-Neidermayer

Getzlaf-Thornton-Heatly//This line is so heavy that smaller teams would have problems handling it. Especially if you could get the right matchup, IE against a smaller D.
Weber-Doughty

MSL-Toews-Byfuglien//MSL in Kanes position. The rest is a full Chi unit. Already have chemistry. One of the most dominant units in the game.
Keith-Seabrook

Morrow-Rod Brind'Amour (C)-Lucic//Checking line. Experience. RB with the C, to take pressure of the younger players. To hammer the other team and play 0-0 would be their goal.

My point is, with a team with more of a natrual balance (in terms of intern ranking on the lines et c), it often goes a lot faster to get the team to mesh. The players are put in a position they are used to, and feels more comfortable. When I've seen Canada so far it feels like the players feel like if everyone takes a lot fo responsibility, it all goes south. There isn't enough room for that. Then everyone trys to hard instead, and that don't work either. They don't get the right balance.


People often talk about "How would Canada's B/C/D team do in the OG's?" and then the rest of us jump on them saying like "Let them put together a A team that can beat the Swiss in regulation". But, if Canada spread their talent over 5 teams instead, and got more of a natrual balance on those teams -- I wouldn't be suprised if all of those 5 teams basically challenged for the gold...

In the end though, I wouldn't at all be suprised if Canada still won gold (with the team they have), if they can beat Russia. I will probably put a big bet on them if they beat Russia.

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