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Hockey Canada's fundamental philosphy (roster talk/omissions)

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:04 PM
  #76
EastonBlues22
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
It's not about teams, it's all about GOALIES. When a favoured team loses, it's almost always due to the opposition's goalie being on fire. You don't reduce your risk to that by playing with relative tactical strength ratios, your best chance at getting past the hot goalie is ABSOLUTE firepower. Canada left too much firepower and unqiue offensive threats at home, period, and have made themselves more vulnerable to the most common form of elimination, the HOT GOALIE.
You make it sound like scoring goals is only affected by skill. It's not. Worthy opponents aren't simply going to hand out quality scoring chances (odd man breaks, etc.) for your skill guys to convert. Most of the time your best bets are to force your opponent to make a mistake (i.e. through a relentless forecheck), or to try to create your own luck through hard work (i.e. by getting traffic to the front of the net, then putting the puck on net and crashing for rebounds). A team of nothing but skill players might help with scoring opportunities in some offensive facets of the game, but it will almost certainly detract from other important offensive facets. You're oversimplifying the game, to its detriment.

You're also completely ignoring the facet of the game that revolves around keeping the puck out of your own net, but that's a story for a different day.

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:15 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
You make it sound like scoring goals is only affected by skill. It's not. Worthy opponents aren't simply going to hand out quality scoring chances (odd man breaks, etc.) for your skill guys to convert. Most of the time your best bets are to force your opponent to make a mistake (i.e. through a relentless forecheck), or to try to create your own luck through hard work (i.e. by getting traffic to the front of the net, then putting the puck on net and crashing for rebounds). A team of nothing but skill players might help with scoring opportunities in some offensive facets of the game, but it will almost certainly detract from other important offensive facets. You're oversimplifying the game, to its detriment.

You're also completely ignoring the facet of the game that revolves around keeping the puck out of your own net, but that's a story for a different day.
An all-world line like Richards-Lecavalier-St Louis can play any offensive facet of the game better than many of the players Canada brought, especially the "grit" contingent. These guys are DOMINATING players, they will own the puck, they will move it, and the defence will be forced to back up and turtle out of respect for them allowing them to setup chances.

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02-19-2010, 01:17 PM
  #78
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I think most people now realize that almost every team in this tourney has a chance to win because of GOALTENDING, which is my biggest fear, NOT Russia's top 6 people!!!

Now the question is would have more goal scorers have won the game in regulation as opposed to the "plugs" (Ignorant as F#@*). Well truth the matter is it might have. At the same time, it might have LOST you the game. The aforementioned "plugs" are very defensively responsible, Seabrook is one of the best stay at home guys in the league, Green is not (yes plus/minus is pretty good but stats do not always state the true story, everyone who watches hockey is saying this for a reason) Morrow is plus 115 for his career, and can hit this is what I want from a guy who play 7 or so minutes a game. In close games, especially those that need a change in momentum big hits can be exactly that BIG. Hockey is as much about NOT GETTING SCORED ON, as it is scoring. This is what kept the Swiss in this game FFS. Yes it's true if Canada scored one more goal they would have won the goal in regulation and got 3 point instead of 2. It's also true that if the Swiss scored one more goal in regulation they would have gotten 0 points. Yes I know the Swiss offense might not be the biggest threat but against more talented teams it is. You can always shorten your bench and play the goal-scorers in close games like this where scoring is needed and the other team is not an offensive threat, there isn't a lack of goal scoring talent on this team, hell even the "plugs" can score a bit. But what about games where you are protecting a one goal lead, against the Swedes, Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, Americans, Finns? Probably wouldn't mind "plugs" like Bergeron and Toews out on the ice then.

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02-19-2010, 01:24 PM
  #79
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Ever hear the phrase "defense wins championships"?

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:29 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg View Post
Ever hear the phrase "defense wins championships"?
Surprised this kid even wants defensemen out there, let alone playing defense, instead of five all-offense all-the-time forwards. This isn't NHL 10 where you have Marty St. Louis on the 4th line of your all-star team, that's just not how it works.

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:31 PM
  #81
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Shoulda coulda woulda, Tom.

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02-19-2010, 01:35 PM
  #82
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Can't wait to bump this later.

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:36 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
For real. That and when people say "epic" in every sentence.
This. Can't stand it.

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:41 PM
  #84
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I'm trying to figure out if this is a real thread...

If it is the Canadian PP should be:

Mike Green - Stamkos - St Louis
Bouwmeester - Dion


EPIC WIN

no way the Canadians lose with that lineup.

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:44 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg View Post
Ever hear the phrase "defense wins championships"?
Ever hear the phrase "read the ****ing post"?

It's not the best of 7 NHL championship playoffs. A short single game elim tourney is MUCH different.

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02-19-2010, 01:47 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
An all-world line like Richards-Lecavalier-St Louis can play any offensive facet of the game better than many of the players Canada brought, especially the "grit" contingent.
No, they can't.

Quote:
These guys are DOMINATING players, they will own the puck, they will move it, and the defence will be forced to back up and turtle out of respect for them allowing them to setup chances.
The textbook defense against skill is to take away time and space...not to "back up and turtle out of respect." Just what sort of teams do you think are in this tournament?

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:48 PM
  #87
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What's annoying to me, even as a Canadian, is that we will have an arsenal of excuses to deploy if we don't win the gold this year.

It's a two week tournament that happens once every four years, yes it's kind of a big deal, and yes there will be a slew of variables and contingencies that EVERY team will face.

Let's just suck it up, eh? In Yzerman we trust.

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:49 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Ever hear the phrase "read the ****ing post"?

It's not the best of 7 NHL championship playoffs. A short single game elim tourney is MUCH different.
Than why did Russias offence produce less goals than Canada's did yesterday?

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02-19-2010, 01:52 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Ever hear the phrase "read the ****ing post"?

It's not the best of 7 NHL championship playoffs. A short single game elim tourney is MUCH different.
Right, you don't need defense in the Olympics. Hell, Canada should pull their goalie for the rest of the Olympics. They need that scoring power! I'm going to propose the Sochi defensive pairings right now

Nash - Lecavalier
Iginla - Heatley
Staal - Getzlaf

That adds scoring power to the back end where defense is useless, and gives more room for power play specialists and scorers up front.

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Old
02-19-2010, 02:10 PM
  #90
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We should probably just go with 22 forwards, no defense, and only Brodeur because we know he can score goals as well.

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Old
02-19-2010, 02:10 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
No, they can't.
Guess you don't watch many bolts or stars games, cuz these guys are all over the place and they dominate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
The textbook defense against skill is to take away time and space...not to "back up and turtle out of respect." Just what sort of teams do you think are in this tournament?
No...you keep em to the outside by taking away slot and trying to get sticks in passing lanes.

And D backs up against top skill guys coming in. You don't play them high. Swiss D backed up by Thorton & Crosby lines, not so much the other 2.

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Old
02-19-2010, 02:14 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
We should probably just go with 22 forwards, no defense, and only Brodeur because we know he can score goals as well.
Actually, I will correct myself. We should probably dress Stamkos in goalie equipment but give him a forwards stick and he can play forward and skate back to the goal when the other team gets the puck, which will be impossible because we have 6 forwards on the ice at one time, all the time.

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Old
02-19-2010, 02:18 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
Actually, I will correct myself. We should probably dress Stamkos in goalie equipment but give him a forwards stick and he can play forward and skate back to the goal when the other team gets the puck, which will be impossible because we have 6 forwards on the ice at one time, all the time.
Why put him in goalie equipment when you can play the whole game with the goalie pulled? You're just reducing his ability to stop the other team's offense by limiting his offense.

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Old
02-19-2010, 02:19 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Guess you don't watch many bolts or stars games, cuz these guys are all over the place and they dominate.



No...you keep em to the outside by taking away slot and trying to get sticks in passing lanes.

And D backs up against top skill guys coming in. You don't play them high. Swiss D backed up by Thorton & Crosby lines, not so much the other 2.
So if all of Canadas roster spots were occupied by offence only type of players who would do all the dirty work? Somebody has to kill penalties and be able to play effectivly despite getting few shifts. Most 1st line NHL offensive superstars are not going to excel at that.

Again the Russians didn't have much success with their offence last night and Canada has scored 10 goals already.

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Old
02-19-2010, 02:19 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
OP ranks right up there with Siberian in the Hockey Analysis department.

----------Bob McKenzie
l
l
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-----------Most real hockey fans
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-----------Hf board disturbers/Siberian/Turboflex




Its one thing to trash talk, it's another thing to start a thread to flame thinly veiled as analysis.

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02-19-2010, 02:21 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Put Goose Stuffs In View Post
In Yzerman we trust.
Agreed, I think he did an excellent job. Vinny, Brad and Marty are world class players but to suggest that they have more "griiiiit" (as you like to call it) then Brenden Morrow is absolutely ludicrous. You are correct offense is very important in this tourney this is why I think it's safe to suggest that at least 9 of the 13 forwards were chose mostly (not solely) on there offensive abilities (you might argue the three aforementioned should be considered in this 9) the other 4 were chosen for other aspects that they bring to the game (defense, face-offs, penalty killing, "Griiiiit", even the way they shoot (Morrow is a natural left winger) and shootout ability (despite the miss on a very nice save by Hiller, Toews is a beast in this) not to say that any of them are slouches in the offensive department either. Like I said earlier "You can always shorten your bench and play the goal-scorers in close games like this where scoring is needed and the other team is not an offensive threat" This was the case in this particular game, but what of the next game. What if it's 4-3 for the Canadians against the US in the dying minutes of the game. Toews, M. Richards, Bergeron and even Morrow have proven to be very defensive responsible. Are you saying that you'd rather have Vinny, Brad and Marty in this situation? Yzerman didn't and I think most people feel the same way.

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02-19-2010, 02:22 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg View Post
Why put him in goalie equipment when you can play the whole game with the goalie pulled? You're just reducing his ability to stop the other team's offense by limiting his offense.
Agreed, besides if you want a goalie you want one who can score, either use Brodeur simply because of that or get Hextal out of retirement.

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Old
02-19-2010, 02:23 PM
  #98
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Just to annoy a whole bunch of people...

This thread is an epic fail.

Boom. Annoyed.

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Old
02-19-2010, 02:31 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by bstap View Post
What if it's 4-3 for the Canadians against the US in the dying minutes of the game. Toews, M. Richards, Bergeron and even Morrow have proven to be very defensive responsible. Are you saying that you'd rather have Vinny, Brad and Marty in this situation? Yzerman didn't and I think most people feel the same way.
Yeah damn I would never put some stanley cup champion vets on when things got important. Those 3 guys are such 1 dimensional scorers that with a minute left they'd all be cherry picking up at the opposition blue line for the EN goal. Better put these guys who are younger, never won anything, and cuz they are less good at scoring they must be better at D.

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02-19-2010, 02:36 PM
  #100
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Missed your daily dose of Prozac, did ya', Turboflex. You can't be so emotionally unstable that you're jumping off the bandwagon already? It's one game.

And anyways, if Crosby, Nash, Heatley, Marleau, Thornton, Getzlaf, E. Staal, and Perry (all 80-120+ point players) can't get it done, do you really think some skinny sophomore like Stamkos is going to light the world on fire. Think about it...

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