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Swiss olympic team 2010

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02-19-2010, 02:06 PM
  #1
torero
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Swiss olympic team 2010

I am impressed by our team and proud of how they fight and the speed they have and the stick work they display and the number of battles they win and the bullies they win.

They played USA and Canada so far. 2 candidates for Gold. i was speechless !

Hiller, Streit, Wick, Diaz and the others... whoaw

What is your opinion ??

Do you believe they will keep their string of good games, they will rise the quality of their games ??

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02-21-2010, 11:10 AM
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I believe that we have the more suitable opponent facing Belarus rather than Germany.
None of these teams are bad, don't misunderstand me. (on top of that i didn't see the Germans play).

the logic is mainly statistical yet it is interesting to note :

Belarus repetitively had seriously less shots than Germany AND the opposing team had repeatedly more shots against Belarus than against Germany.
ILLUSTRATION:

Germany - Finland.....0 - 5 goals........25 - 35 shots
Belarus - Finland.......1 - 5 goals........12 - 45 shots

vs Sweden

Germany - Sweden...0 - 2 goals.........21 - 25 shots
Belarus - Sweden.....2 - 4 goals.........19 - 38 shots

and directly
Belarus - Germany....5 - 3 goals.........17 - 40 shots

Stats are stats ... ok.

I saw Finland and Sweden against Belarus. Finland is impressive, Sweden less and Belarus less than Sweden. Very logically. Belarus don't seem to have a good structure. Chemistry was not huge. Vitali Koval is a serious Goalie (like so many in this tournament) ... he gives little chances to beat him in a straight shot with vision. their other goalie Andrey Mezin isn't bad yet i believe they will play Koval.

I believe that we have a fair chance. We could face another dogfight like vs Norway.

any thoughts on your side ??


Last edited by torero: 02-21-2010 at 11:19 AM.
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02-21-2010, 05:42 PM
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Swiss by far is the most underrated nation when it comes to hockey

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02-22-2010, 02:36 AM
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Belarus will be a tough opponent for sure. With 14 guys playing together for Dynamo Minsk, team chemistry won't be an issue for them, and, as Torero pointed out, they can count on strong goaltending. Hopefully Hiller can rebound from his poor game against Norway.

And if everything goes well, another opportunity against the US on Wednesday, which is IMO a better matchup than Sweden, Russia or Finland.

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02-22-2010, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stv11 View Post
Belarus will be a tough opponent for sure. With 14 guys playing together for Dynamo Minsk, team chemistry won't be an issue for them, and, as Torero pointed out, they can count on strong goaltending. Hopefully Hiller can rebound from his poor game against Norway.

And if everything goes well, another opportunity against the US on Wednesday, which is IMO a better matchup than Sweden, Russia or Finland.
Well, i must say that when i watched Belarus playing ... id didn't strike me that they were playing together. The Finns or Swedes had much more chemistry than Belarus.
It is true that i knew they were playing together as a KHL team, yet it didn't strike me beyond that. We should note that it is not the best team in KHL. Dynamo Minsk is 11th/12 in the Western conference in KHL, They have 62points, the 10th/12 Severstal has 71 points. They are far behind. And the last (12th/12) is Vityaz, a disgrace to the Russian hockey.
http://en.khl.ru/ for interest ... it is in english.


About the USA ... an upset is possible. Specially that when we played against them on the first game, our guys were shooting so many times on the americans to get the puck out of the zone. They obviously were not used to play on the small rink under pressure. (easier to get the puck out in the european sized rink). Specially in the 1st and 2nd period we saw this. (when the US scored).
The US team is ok. At this level ... all teams are very serious. I am more intimidated by their goalies; Miller or Thomas are monsters. In my view few goalies (when playing well) are equal or above Hiller. Well these two are. (IMHO).
To compare with Canada : Brodeur or Luongo are legends. Miller and Thomas are walls.
They will underestiemate us. shure. They believe they beat us clean 1st and 2nd, and rested the 3rd, we came back and that is it. Then they are not scared of us physically. They have fun about the Sprunger/Bakes case (newspaper stuff that happened in these games !) and consider us as softies. I am convinced that their heart will underestimate us.
Funnily while i thought they were the team most likely to win the gold medal; I also agree that they are the best draw for us.

But le't beat Belarus first ! Which isn't done yet.
We lost and won against them in preparation games. How were these games ??

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02-22-2010, 04:00 AM
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I also think Switzerland can upset the US, but I don't want to talk about it before the game against Belarus, this team deserves more respect than it usually gets.

From what I could read on the two exhibition games, Switzerland dominated both but couldn't score in the first one. Something that happens way too often and that I won't rule out for tomorrow's game.

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02-22-2010, 05:56 AM
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Of course Belarus deserves a lot a respect. no doubt on that. to illustrate this when sweden stoped playing ... Belarus came back ... then the Swedes could not recover their earlier dominance. They are very serious and will fight for their ... olympic qualification knowing that they have a serious chance ... in other words ... it will be war again. Kostyzin is in on fire.
And for us, their is no easy team ! While underrated, we are not among the powerhouses neither.

Another interesting fact is that Koval and Mezin, both goalies have aprox. GAA of 2.6 and 90.3% saves in KHL. (where some goalies have 93% saves ... ranking 28th on 24 teams ... obviously some teams have 2 goalies)

Koval(20 games this year in KHL), who played 2 times presently is in fact the second Goalie. Mezin (39 games) is the Dynamo Minsk's first goalie.


Last edited by torero: 02-22-2010 at 06:08 AM.
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02-24-2010, 04:25 PM
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I am extremely impressed with the Swiss Olympic team. Ya they got eliminated by a potential gold winning team, but I thought their effort was impressive. Are there any 90-94 born swiss players coming up to look for at the 2014 olympics?

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02-25-2010, 03:01 AM
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And so ends the 13 years Krueger era, will feel strange to see someone else behind the bench.

I'm really looking forward to see what Sean Simpson will do, but it's going to be hard to match Krueger's achievements. Too bad most people don't know enough about hockey to realize this.

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02-25-2010, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DT18 View Post
I am extremely impressed with the Swiss Olympic team. Ya they got eliminated by a potential gold winning team, but I thought their effort was impressive. Are there any 90-94 born swiss players coming up to look for at the 2014 olympics?
Nino Niederreiter and Roman Josi (already planned for Vancouver, but got injured at the WJC in late December) should not only be looked for the Swiss team at Sotchi but also have the potential to be great NHL-players.

Thanks Ralph and Köbi Kölliker. 13 great years for the Swiss hockey, let's hope Sean Simpson can continue like that.

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02-25-2010, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jonas2244 View Post
Nino Niederreiter and Roman Josi (already planned for Vancouver, but got injured at the WJC in late December) should not only be looked for the Swiss team at Sotchi but also have the potential to be great NHL-players.

Thanks Ralph and Köbi Kölliker. 13 great years for the Swiss hockey, let's hope Sean Simpson can continue like that.
We could also add Alain Berger ... who got hurt in the prparation game before the JWC ... and is still injured. I do have a very good feeling for him. He could be a power forward. Size, strength and sens of scoring. Actually Josy, Berger and Niederreiter could be a very serious line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stv11 View Post
And so ends the 13 years Krueger era, will feel strange to see someone else behind the bench.

I'm really looking forward to see what Sean Simpson will do, but it's going to be hard to match Krueger's achievements. Too bad most people don't know enough about hockey to realize this.
Krueger has been great for the swiss hockey and the swiss team. no doubt. he gave a form and a game to a team ... to make us number8 with a solid defensive system. This is not trivial. He made tough and controversial choices ... . It is part of his job and i am not good enough to judge. He certainly made mistakes (who doesn't ?)
To me he was outstanding and had results.

Therefore i was scared our team would be witouth Dad Ralph ! wondering or scared we would go down to our former level. (which was awfull)

The fantastic thing about these olympic games was that i discovered that our team was able to play aggressively, Not only hide behind a structured and well disciplined trap. The level has seriously increased.

Illustration:
base case and problem:
Then, when watching the yesterday's game ... Switzerland - USA ... We saw the swiss team playing the trap ... like 17shots to 4 in favor of the US each period and a good (and lucky) Hiller. Comes the 3rd period ... immediately US scores ...
and then ... Our guys start playing !
And they play well. they almost match the USA !

theory:
Something i learned from my sport is that when you change something during the game, it changes the mindset of the opponent. Once i had a fight with a guy who was brilliant ... he gave me kicks, punches, knees ... i always drew back by some centimeters ... so he never touched me seriously ... but on the ring he was absolutely dominant. at the end of the 2nd round i gave him 1 kick with power, he protected his face ... received the kick in the forearms and had paine. he was scared. The fight was different after ... he lost his boldness ... his grinta and arrogance went away and ... he lost by KO !

consequence:
So the game vs the USA took another turn after the Swiss started becoming offensive. seriously matching the US !! If only they could have played like this the 3 periods. (maybe they were tired therefore they thought at playing the hard core trap).

Whatever, not to judge yesterday's tactical choices ... it gave me confidence that our team was good enough to play internationaly without trap and that our guys have a level that is serious.

Therefore i even feel that it is time to change coach. That all is perfect since Krueger wants to go. I view it as a separation for the best of both parties.
and welcome Simpson as a new coach.

You need a certain type of coach to make a weak team ... an average team ... maybe you need another coach to make an average team a good team.

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02-25-2010, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stv11 View Post
And so ends the 13 years Krueger era, will feel strange to see someone else behind the bench.

I'm really looking forward to see what Sean Simpson will do, but it's going to be hard to match Krueger's achievements. Too bad most people don't know enough about hockey to realize this.
I, and i am sure many other people, would be eager to know more about what he did !
Do not feel bad to share what you know.

tks

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02-25-2010, 09:37 AM
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I don't "know" anything special.

What I meant is some people are constantly bashing Krueger's choices regarding team selection, and those are people who don't realize that building a team out of the 20 best Swiss players is very different from building the best possible team out of 20 Swiss players, who don't understand that you need to think at the team level even if some players who don't make the cut are individually better than some who make the team (I heard someone who wanted to see Guggisberg in the team over Sannitz. As if Guggisberg could win pucks for Sprunger, kill penalties and win faceoffs...), who don't understand that Von Arx or Bärtschi wouldn't put this team in top 4, who don't understand that Switzerland can't rely on talent and needs perfect team play to stand a chance against the top 7, and who don't understand that Switzerland lags far behind the top world championship teams (let alone Olympic teams) in terms of talent, that being in the top 8 more often than not is an achievement and that losing to teams like Latvia, Belarus or Germany once every three years is nothing to be ashamed of.

Every Swiss hockey fan should be thankful our national team was led by such a hockey mind for such a long time, and understand he got the most out of the player pool he had.

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02-25-2010, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by stv11 View Post
I don't "know" anything special.

What I meant is some people are constantly bashing Krueger's choices regarding team selection, and those are people who don't realize that building a team out of the 20 best Swiss players is very different from building the best possible team out of 20 Swiss players, who don't understand that you need to think at the team level even if some players who don't make the cut are individually better than some who make the team (I heard someone who wanted to see Guggisberg in the team over Sannitz. As if Guggisberg could win pucks for Sprunger, kill penalties and win faceoffs...), who don't understand that Von Arx or Bärtschi wouldn't put this team in top 4, who don't understand that Switzerland can't rely on talent and needs perfect team play to stand a chance against the top 7, and who don't understand that Switzerland lags far behind the top world championship teams (let alone Olympic teams) in terms of talent, that being in the top 8 more often than not is an achievement and that losing to teams like Latvia, Belarus or Germany once every three years is nothing to be ashamed of.

Every Swiss hockey fan should be thankful our national team was led by such a hockey mind for such a long time, and understand he got the most out of the player pool he had.
Ok tks

that far i also knew, i imagined that he was involved in the swiss hockey at other levels ... advisor or consultant for young talents ... or wathever.

Although you are a bit tough for the swiss level, which has seriously evolved since Krueger started. You are to the point. And whatever the arguments are, he had results and results give him right.

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02-26-2010, 03:15 AM
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Although you are a bit tough for the swiss level, which has seriously evolved since Krueger started.
Am I? I often hear how it should be possible to reach the semi-finals of the world championships, but is it a realistic goal?

Let's just take a look at Sweden's last WC roster. Despite more than 20 NHL players declining the opportunity to play in the tournament, they could field a line with Mårtensson and Weinhandl, one of the best non-NHL forward duo, one with Omark and Harju, two of the most skilled young players in Europe, and one with a top SEL player like Wallin and a solid NHLer like Huselius. Patrick Berglund was on the 4th line after an impressive NHL rookie season. Good enough for a bronze medal. That's how deep Sweden is (and consider that Canada or Russia have even bettet depth).

Or we can consider Finland's Olympic team. Jarkko Immonen centers one of the best line in Europe, Ville Peltonen is one of the best non NHL forward of the last decade, and the best we had in Switzerland from 2003 to 2006 (in other words, both are way better than any Swiss forward and would be locks to make our national team), but with Finland's Olympic team they are just depth players.

I think it's just realistic to say that Switzerland lags way behind the top 6 (Slovakia doesn't have the same depth) when you consider that Sweden and Finland, who both have less depth and top end talent than Canada or Russia, can dress players whose resume is far above those of any Swiss player (with some rare exceptions) without even considering NHLers.

That's why I stand by my opinion that reaching a WC semi-final is an unrealistic goal, even though an upset is not out of question.

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02-26-2010, 04:56 PM
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I agree with you on Krueger ... !

I also agree on the level of our hockey on a bottom up approach.

Yet you seem to say that we have no hope to break any of the top 7 teams. And we shouldn't be ashamed to loose from times to times to Letonia, Belarus and Germany.

While i agree on the 2nd part ... loosing to Letonia, Belarus or Germany (+Norway and + Deanemark soon) isn't a shame ... .
You explain that Sweden has a tremendous depth ... sure they do. Finland as well or ... they dwarf us ... Yes. (not even talking Canada, Russia or USA)

But on a top down approach, you have to admit that we are playing better and better. Look at these Olympics ... look how USA & Canada are handling the other teams (trashing them !) ! they struggled vs us (Krueger ok but not only !) ! In the world junior championship ... Krueger watched ... . our kids did great (it was an upset ok but they played very well). Your logic is decent about the depth ... but you also have to admit that more and more quality players are coming out of our system. We will be more and more a challenge for other big nations. Krueger is an element .. but their is not only him. The players are simply better as well.

Its a bit like football, our kids did great in Nigeria, yet not in a dream we have half of the depth of Brazil, Italy, France, Germany or Nigeria.

Not only the number of kids playing in a pond foreshadow quality players output for a country. We have a great LNA with a good system to take care of talents.
In this sense you are though with Swiss hockey.

Whatever ... we will se where we go with Sean Simpson.

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02-27-2010, 04:46 AM
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I agree about all of your points, I was simply pointing out that Switzerland is closer from Belarus or Latvia than from Sweden, and that in this context, having such a firm hold on the 8th place is an achievement for which Krueger should be praised. Basically, my message was directed toward people claiming that we never reach the semi-finals because Krueger doesn't select Von Arx and Riesen (and trust me, there are many of them).

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02-27-2010, 07:33 AM
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Especially as Riesen was not able to show his real strength since his last AHL season. Since then he's just average at most.

I really hope that Roman Wick tries to get over to NA next season. He has the skills to do so, his physical play got much stronger in the last 2 or 3 years, he's fast, can score, he has just all a player needs to get a spot on an NHL-roster.

So in Sotchi we'll surely have 4 NHL-players, Hiller, Sbisa, Josi and Niederreiter. We'll see if Streit is then still there and if some other is able to come over.

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03-01-2010, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonas2244 View Post
So in Sotchi we'll surely have 4 NHL-players, Hiller, Sbisa, Josi and Niederreiter.
you can add streit to that list if he`ll stay healthy and at least weber, berger, simek, wick to the "could be" list.

in the case of krueger you know I can`t share your opinion and I`m very sure someone other would have done it better, but now it`s over and I`m glad that the swiss hockey is improving and is bringing out some great individual players (NO, that`s definitely not kruegers achievement!)


btw if you all really didn`t understand me: yes, at olympics with NHL break, the 8th seed is a really good one and I`m glad we were able to upset some of the big nations.
but in world cups like every year, slovakia had their best players in NHL like all nations, team canada looked like the spengler cup one and petteri nummelin was finlands leader, the swiss should have made more than this 8th place every year and I can`t stand people said "the success gave him right" because he simply didn`t.
Now I hope Simpson takes the best players from our league and moves into the WC semi-final.
that would egalize kruegers best classification for international tournaments by the way

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03-01-2010, 05:34 PM
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That's just not true, Canada has even on the IHWC a roster full of NHL-players. Even on an IHWC Switzerland is #8.

We'll see what Simpson changes, I don't think it'll be much. He also will select role-players like Paterlini. I'm really looking forward to his first selection.

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03-02-2010, 02:56 AM
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you can add streit to that list if he`ll stay healthy and at least weber, berger, simek, wick to the "could be" list.

in the case of krueger you know I can`t share your opinion and I`m very sure someone other would have done it better, but now it`s over and I`m glad that the swiss hockey is improving and is bringing out some great individual players (NO, that`s definitely not kruegers achievement!)


btw if you all really didn`t understand me: yes, at olympics with NHL break, the 8th seed is a really good one and I`m glad we were able to upset some of the big nations.
but in world cups like every year, slovakia had their best players in NHL like all nations, team canada looked like the spengler cup one and petteri nummelin was finlands leader, the swiss should have made more than this 8th place every year and I can`t stand people said "the success gave him right" because he simply didn`t.
Now I hope Simpson takes the best players from our league and moves into the WC semi-final.
that would egalize kruegers best classification for international tournaments by the way
As jonas2244 pointed out, Canada WC team is always full of NHLers and way superior to their Spengler cup team. And what's wrong with "a Finland team led by Petteri Nummelin"? That guy is probably the best player we've seen on Swiss ice during the last decade, head and shoulder above any Swiss skater, and that includes Streit. See my above post about team depth.

And don't delude yourself into thinking that Simpson will take the 20 best players, because just like Krueger he understands the concept of team. Role players will be there. Maybe not Paterlini, whose time would have come even if Krueger had stayed, but you can bet Sannitz will be back, and others will be too.


Last edited by stv11: 03-10-2010 at 09:48 AM. Reason: typo
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03-10-2010, 08:10 AM
  #22
torero
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Originally Posted by jonas2244 View Post
That's just not true, Canada has even on the IHWC a roster full of NHL-players. Even on an IHWC Switzerland is #8.

We'll see what Simpson changes, I don't think it'll be much. He also will select role-players like Paterlini. I'm really looking forward to his first selection.
Could we compare Switzerland and Hockey to South Korea and Football.

South Korea is a very serious team, that eliminated good teams, that has realistically no chances to become world champions and almost no players play in Europe or another big championship.

Switzerland is the same ... a serious team when playing on a country level, that eliminated good teams with almost no players in NHL and with veeeery little chances to become WC.

the morality of this : the value of a team isn't equal to the sum of the parts. So Switzerland #8 ? for now yes ... but not for long time. #7 or #6 is around the corner.
Beyond that, and in a sustainable manner, we will need another kick than the one that is to come (young guns + Simpson).
Russia, Canada, USA, Sweden and Finland are really good and above the crowd.

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