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Manitoba Moose / MTS Centre group talking to NHL - Part II

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Old
03-02-2010, 12:08 PM
  #101
JussiHikka
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Originally Posted by vivianmb View Post
ok two can play this game. look up the ahl playoff attendance for the moose from last season. how were those numbers?
AHL playoff attendance doesn't mean much, as evidenced here when we lost the Flames. Hell, we won the Calder Cup and three years later we didn't even have a team.

It's tough to compare the AHL and NHL because they're two completely different levels of hockey. It's like saying that we could fill an NHL game when we barely fill QMJHL games, and quite frankly Junior is easier to watch than AHL.

I understand that Winnipeg wants a team, and I think they should be given one with time, but Winnipeg isn't going to be given a team solely based on Moose attendance.

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03-02-2010, 12:17 PM
  #102
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Winnipeg is a city that deserves to get it's Jets back and the MTS Centre is the perfect home arena. Yes, it only holds 15,000+ but as a fan watching on TV, I would rather see a full building there as opposed to seeing a bunch of empty seats in ATL, PHX, TB or FLA. At least you guys care about hockey.

As for pre-season games, good on Winnipeg for not supporting them! You shouldn't have to give your hard earned money to two struggling sunbelt teams even if one of those is the Coyotes.

Bring back the Jets! The support and passion is there!

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03-02-2010, 07:46 PM
  #103
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I saw this on JetsOwner and thought it was kind of interesting. I'd appreciate any clarification as to it's meaning and significance from the lawyers on this board:

http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/tr...tIndexOnPage=1

-8 Hockey Ventures Inc. is the business owned by former Winnipeg Jets owner Barry Shenkarow.
-The most recent dates listed for "Rep for Service Name Change" are March 9th, 2009 and November 25th, 2009.

To me, it appears like someone is interested in acquiring the Jets logo and brand from Shenkarow and the NHL. Any ideas?

EDIT: I did some more research and I found that a representative of service is:

Quote:
A person or firm to whom the Office will send all correspondence with the same effect as having sent the correspondence to the owner. An owner who has no Canadian address is required to have a representative for service.
Pitblado Buchwald Asper is apparently a Winnipeg law firm.


Last edited by WJG: 03-02-2010 at 08:06 PM.
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Old
03-02-2010, 08:54 PM
  #104
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Ottawa borrowed the money for their expansion and didn't have a rink. Hamilton was the only city that met the requirements laid out in the expansion package.
Balsillie's attempt to "steal a team out of bankruptcy, flaunting not just the rules of the NHL, but the rules of all the major North American sports leagues" was only done after offering up piles of money to the league to get any team into Hamilton. Instead of working with him and inviting his money into the league....the league worked against him so the end result was Moyes putting the team into bankruptcy and Balsillie trying to buy it out of there.

Don't make the mistake of thinking Balsillie put an NHL team into bankruptcy.....a franchise owner did....because even he knew it was his best shot at selling to Balsillie and getting the most money from his investment. Leipold was set to sell to Balsillie then suddenly the league showed up with Boots Del Biaggio and Leipold was pushed into selling for less.

Look at NHL expansion....ignore the issue of Toronto/Buffalo as that could be negotiated and dealt with (as was with the Ducks)...and then, can you really tell me Hamilton hasn't been screwed?

Nevermind the fact the City of Hamilton was told by NHL Commissioner John Ziegler that if they build an NHL arena...they WILL get a team. Royal screwing. People talk about the NHL "righting a wrong" with Winnipeg....maybe this wrong should be righted.

But, let's not get sidetracked. Bottom line....AHL, Jr. A and pre-season NHL games aren't very good evidence to show what NHL support would be. They shouldn't be totally ignored...but they shouldn't be given too much weight either.

What has Hamilton done to prove they deserve a NHL team other than cry in their cornflakes about how the NHL has screwed you for so long. Oh yeah Hamilton has done notta.

Winnipeg however... now has a money making machine at the MTS Centre, all 50 luxury boxes are sold out with a waiting list of 70+,the owner of the MTS centre can actually make money on concessions etc. as appossed to the old arena that W.E.C controlled and took all the profits from the current owner at the time Barry Shenkarow. And that was the major reason for the Jets leaving along with a .65 canadian dollar, all of which has been corrected after the Jets left. Since you seam to know everything I probably didn't need to post this for you.

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03-02-2010, 09:10 PM
  #105
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I think all this talk of Winnipeg getting an NHL team for sure on March 4th needs to seriously cool off.

Who knows what will happen, but I think its premature to start making bets and stuff like that.

Some of you adamant Winnipeg hopefuls may be setting yourself up for major disappointment.

Just stop it. Wait and see, but don't expect anything or be sad if the day some by and nothing happens...

Its possible, but I don't think its happening....not cause I'm against a team in Winnipeg (I'm all for it, and will be ecstatic myself) but realistically, one cannot believe rumors for anything. They are rumor's for a reason...


Breaking news: I Just heard for a trustworthy source Ice Edge has completed the Phoenix deal 100%....this morning actually. Turns out that its a done deal and the Saskatoon games are also happening.


See what I just did there?


Don't set yourselves up for disappointment, is all I'm saying.

@ the same time, you Winnipeg haters have to stop hating lol. Be nice.


Last edited by roccerfeller: 03-02-2010 at 09:15 PM.
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03-02-2010, 09:45 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
...March 4th...

...I think its premature to start making bets...
Wait... what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2K2 View Post
I think I can speak for most of the Winnipeg skeptics when I say that it is the endless hypocrisy and sucking/blowing at the same time by Winnipeg supporters that makes people dismissive.
I'm not sure what the integrity of the Winnipeg supporters has to do with the potential for a Winnipeg hockey team. Especially with the subject of attendance at an NHL pre-season game where many teams are well below the attendance of Winnipeg while being much lower priced than the pre-season game(s) in Winnipeg.

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03-02-2010, 10:05 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
I saw this on JetsOwner and thought it was kind of interesting. I'd appreciate any clarification as to it's meaning and significance from the lawyers on this board:

http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/tr...tIndexOnPage=1

-8 Hockey Ventures Inc. is the business owned by former Winnipeg Jets owner Barry Shenkarow.
-The most recent dates listed for "Rep for Service Name Change" are March 9th, 2009 and November 25th, 2009.

To me, it appears like someone is interested in acquiring the Jets logo and brand from Shenkarow and the NHL. Any ideas?

EDIT: I did some more research and I found that a representative of service is:



Pitblado Buchwald Asper is apparently a Winnipeg law firm.
The Pitblado refernce is evidently that someone who was a Pitblado client made a section 45 request, which I believe is a request that the owner of the trademark demonstrate that the trademark is in use and their ownership should not be expunged. As noted in the file, the case was closed, indicating that it is evidently no longer in play, as it were.

Your research indicates that Shenkarow is not a registered owner of the trademark any longer, by the way. The NHL appears to be the sole owner at this point. It was acquired from Shenkarow's entity on June 30, 1996.

I am not an IP lawyer, mind you, but this is what I read from your research.

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:44 PM
  #108
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What has Hamilton done to prove they deserve a NHL team other than cry in their cornflakes about how the NHL has screwed you for so long. Oh yeah Hamilton has done notta.

Winnipeg however... now has a money making machine at the MTS Centre, all 50 luxury boxes are sold out with a waiting list of 70+,the owner of the MTS centre can actually make money on concessions etc. as appossed to the old arena that W.E.C controlled and took all the profits from the current owner at the time Barry Shenkarow. And that was the major reason for the Jets leaving along with a .65 canadian dollar, all of which has been corrected after the Jets left. Since you seam to know everything I probably didn't need to post this for you.
I dunno...an 18,000 seat arena with spaces for 90+ luxury boxes...which was built with taxpayer money to get an NHL team.....14,000 plus season ticket deposits of $250 received within 48 hours...oh yeah, those were non-refundable by the way.
Held the AHL attendance record for many years...if we want to use that, which I don't like to.
Did you see the response to the 'Make It Seven' stuff? While I can't completely agree with the methods Balsillie took (would have preferred a 'Make it Three in Ontario' or something similar like that) it did show unbelievable support in Hamilton. The deposits for both seats and luxury boxes was incredible.

I'm not sure what else ANY market can do. I don't doubt Winnipeg folk are passionate about their hockey and want an NHL team. I am less than confident that with the small population and small arena that it will work there. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong on this.

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:50 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by King_Stannis View Post
Amazing what Ottawa was able to do with borrowed money and no rink, eh? As I indicated, all that the "gold mine" of Hamilton had to do was cough up a measly $50 million and the team would have been theirs. After all, they would have made that up many times over because it's the greatest hockey market on the planet, right?

So now you've got the audacity to complain that another team (actually two other teams) were able to come up with the money to play in the big game while you were left in the cold?

You guys had your chance, you blew it, you didn't come up with the money needed. Deal with it. If money is a concern up there then maybe the AHL is a better fit. You guys already have a superlative AHL arena in Copps, so instead of worrying about what you don't have, take stock in what you do.
Dood...the Senators went bankrupt because they had to borrow the expansion fee and build an arena that they didn't have yet. They were actually very close to moving to Hamilton from what I heard.
The issue wasn't coming up with the money...Ron Joyce had plenty of that, they didn't want to pay it in a lump sum. Since start-up costs for a new franchise aren't exactly minor....part of the bid was paying the fee over time.
As I understand what went down...the league never said this was a problem, but after not awarding an expansion team to Hamilton said that was the reason. Which is pretty weak by the League...OR...it's a lame excuse to cover that the NHL was strong armed by the Leafs.
I'm sure if told "You either pay the fee in one shot or you don't get the team." the money would have been there. Heck..the city probably would have paid it.

Tell me....if Hamilton was awarded that franchise instead of Ottawa.....do you think I would tell somebody hoping Ottawa would get an NHL team to be happy with the OHL?

Oh...the "measly" $50M in 1990 would be like $85M today. Still not a huge amount (compared to what we saw Balsillie throwing around) but it's not exactly "measly", and again...there was no problem getting the money, Ron Joyce is worth over a billion, it was simply a request as part of the bid to pay it over a period of time.


Last edited by Jeffrey93: 03-02-2010 at 10:58 PM.
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Old
03-03-2010, 12:52 AM
  #110
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Another unsubstantiated rumour out of Winnipeg. I thought I'd post it here for your information only and am not endorsing it as true. In fact, I find it difficult to believe. I guess we will find out soon. It's from a radio station in Winnipeg:

"Bettman sighted at the MTS Center Tuesday."

http://twitter.com/92citifm/statuses/9909020842

http://twitter.com/92citifm

GHOST

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03-03-2010, 01:38 AM
  #111
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I commented on this phenomenon before, but I find it kind of sad how some people fly the flag of Canadian nationalism when asserting their area deserves an NHL team, but then belittle efforts to bring a team to another city in Canada.

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03-03-2010, 02:44 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by GregHickman View Post
AHL playoff attendance doesn't mean much, as evidenced here when we lost the Flames. Hell, we won the Calder Cup and three years later we didn't even have a team.

It's tough to compare the AHL and NHL because they're two completely different levels of hockey. It's like saying that we could fill an NHL game when we barely fill QMJHL games, and quite frankly Junior is easier to watch than AHL.

I understand that Winnipeg wants a team, and I think they should be given one with time, but Winnipeg isn't going to be given a team solely based on Moose attendance.
....or meaningless nhl exhibition games. which was the point i was trying to make.

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03-03-2010, 07:36 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by GHOSTofMAROONSroad View Post
Another unsubstantiated rumour out of Winnipeg. I thought I'd post it here for your information only and am not endorsing it as true. In fact, I find it difficult to believe. I guess we will find out soon. It's from a radio station in Winnipeg:

"Bettman sighted at the MTS Center Tuesday."

http://twitter.com/92citifm/statuses/9909020842

http://twitter.com/92citifm

GHOST
Are there NO cell phone cameras in Winnipeg? For as often as he's seen there you'd think someone would actually think to snap a quick picture of him instead of relying on hearsay.

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03-03-2010, 07:40 AM
  #114
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Dood...the Senators went bankrupt because they had to borrow the expansion fee and build an arena that they didn't have yet. They were actually very close to moving to Hamilton from what I heard.
The issue wasn't coming up with the money...Ron Joyce had plenty of that, they didn't want to pay it in a lump sum. Since start-up costs for a new franchise aren't exactly minor....part of the bid was paying the fee over time.
As I understand what went down...the league never said this was a problem, but after not awarding an expansion team to Hamilton said that was the reason. Which is pretty weak by the League...OR...it's a lame excuse to cover that the NHL was strong armed by the Leafs.
I'm sure if told "You either pay the fee in one shot or you don't get the team." the money would have been there. Heck..the city probably would have paid it.

Tell me....if Hamilton was awarded that franchise instead of Ottawa.....do you think I would tell somebody hoping Ottawa would get an NHL team to be happy with the OHL?

Oh...the "measly" $50M in 1990 would be like $85M today. Still not a huge amount (compared to what we saw Balsillie throwing around) but it's not exactly "measly", and again...there was no problem getting the money, Ron Joyce is worth over a billion, it was simply a request as part of the bid to pay it over a period of time.

Expansion fees are paid up front. It seems that Joyce was seeking an exemption from a standard operating procedure. If I was the NHL I'd have taken the ones that played it straight, too.

So if Ron Joyce was smart not to pay the expansion fee in a lump sum, was he also smart a little while back when he explicitly said that a team in Hamilton wouldn't work?

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03-03-2010, 08:58 AM
  #115
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Apparantly Darren Ford tweeted something about "pleading the fifth" on a move by a team to Winnipeg. Obviously just fuel for speculation, but interesting in one respect. Despite what you say about all the returnofthejets supporters, Ford himself has been extremely cautious and conservative, making sure to say that he took no stock in any these rumors. He would only say that as far as he knew "work was continuing to be done" as far as bringing a team to Winnipeg, the business equivalent of "we gave 110%".

So while these rumors are maddening in some respects, there does appear to be some smoke. What it's all about is open for debate, but there is something going on.

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03-03-2010, 09:06 AM
  #116
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Beleive me if I saw bettman walking through downtown here I would do what I could to get a picture of him.
I know I haven't seen him but I am not downtown all hours of the day
If someone happend tomorrow I think this city would explode
however, these rumors have been going on for 10 years now and I will beleive it when i see it. So I don't get my hopes up

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03-03-2010, 11:47 AM
  #117
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I received a text message that Gary Bettman is in town and at the MTS centre this morning.
You can beleive me or not that is your own opinion

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03-03-2010, 12:12 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
I received a text message that Gary Bettman is in town and at the MTS centre this morning.
You can beleive me or not that is your own opinion
Who was the source of this text? How did they find this out?

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03-03-2010, 12:18 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by King_Stannis View Post
Expansion fees are paid up front. It seems that Joyce was seeking an exemption from a standard operating procedure. If I was the NHL I'd have taken the ones that played it straight, too.

So if Ron Joyce was smart not to pay the expansion fee in a lump sum, was he also smart a little while back when he explicitly said that a team in Hamilton wouldn't work?
He said, in hindsight knowing the way the dollar went and how Canadian teams struggled for a bit he was glad he wasn't the Owner of a team in Hamilton during the period, glad he didn't have to go through what the Senators did.


Last edited by Fugu: 03-04-2010 at 02:10 PM. Reason: ...
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03-03-2010, 12:35 PM
  #120
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Not that it necessarily means anything, but the rumours in Winnipeg are flying around like crazy in the past 3 days. Not just on jetsowner.com, but on radio stations and lots of random twitter feeds. It could just be anticipation of the "March 4th announcement" which was based on rumours from a few weeks ago, or it could be that something is really going on.

Who knows...

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03-03-2010, 12:38 PM
  #121
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He said, in hindsight knowing the way the dollar went and how Canadian teams struggled for a bit he was glad he wasn't the Owner of a team in Hamilton during the period, glad he didn't have to go through what the Senators did...
No Jeffrey, that's not what he said.

http://www.nationalpost.com/related/...tml?id=1580304

Quote:
Is Hamilton an economically viable destination for the NHL? Joyce does not think so. He loves the Steeltown, but discounts the notion that having a professional sports team puts a city on the map. Teams do not matter. Money does. And with the NHL business model dependent on ticket sales and, more importantly, selling corporate boxes, Hamilton is an unnatural economic fit for the big leagues.

"I count my lucky stars that I didn't get the team, because of the financial mess the NHL is in today," Joyce said. "Mr. Balsillie, if he is successful, has deep pockets and he is going to need them, because you don't have enough head offices in Hamilton, in my opinion, to support the private boxes program which is such an integral part of making it work today."

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03-03-2010, 02:15 PM
  #122
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Who was the source of this text? How did they find this out?
The source is from someone that is working at the arena and they saw him walking around

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03-03-2010, 02:18 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
The source is from someone that is working at the arena and they saw him walking around
Thanks!!! Helps build a little more credibility to the "rumor".

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03-03-2010, 03:08 PM
  #124
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Thanks!!! Helps build a little more credibility to the "rumor".
I also got a text message saying someone heard from 92 citi that an announcement is happening tomorrow....
so once again take that as many grains of salt that you need

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03-03-2010, 04:00 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
The source is from someone that is working at the arena and they saw him walking around
I never heard this texting rumour? I know 92 citi tweeted that Bettman sighted at MTS Center Tuesday. Are you sure about this, are these the same messages just getting mixed up?

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