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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

The future of Russian NT could/should be decided in the next 5 days

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Old
02-25-2010, 08:38 PM
  #76
R0bert0 Lu0ng0
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I think this tournament came at a bad time for Russia (not to say it caught them by surprise or anything ).

Zubov and Gonchar would have been impact players two years ago, and a lot of young defensemen just aren't ready now.

That being said, Russia was strategically outmaneuvered in this game badly. Everyone knew they were going to try to "stretch the ice out" to make those long passes to spring forwards on offensive chances, but you are basically giving up on having a strong team defense and abandoning your defensemen when you do this.

Was this merely the best strategy they could go with, given the players on the team? Or the strategy that best reflects what Russian hockey is today? Would they realistically have time to practice a different strategy if they chose to go in another direction?

I can't really answer those questions but I think the Russians need to re-evaluate they approach a tournament like this.

IMO there were some poor coaching decisions made in last night's game (IMO Nabokov should have been pulled in the first) but the real problems were there from the outset of the tournament.

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02-25-2010, 08:50 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by hpheikki View Post
No they dont. They might have few very skilled individuals, but hockey is not only about puckhandling, shooting and skating.
As far as forwards are concerned, Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, and Kovalchuk would be in top 6 in the NHL.

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02-25-2010, 08:54 PM
  #78
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Although it will sound as hindsight now, I did wonder before the 1/4-final whether we would be better off playing an extra match like Canada did. Russia only played 3 matches before Canada and in none of them they looked like a team. An extra match against a weaker team would allow them to develop a better chemistry.

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02-25-2010, 09:00 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ozzie View Post
The hockey program went from one extreme to the other. Since the iron curtain fell.

It used to be the ultimate in positional play, passing and team work above all else.

Now the team plays more as individuals and instead of being over coached, is hardly coached at all.

Its not the talent of their defensemen, its the system or lack there of.
its a nice metaphor for a communism to capitalism transition anyway if nothing else

the individual is now more important than the team

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02-25-2010, 10:48 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Vladiator View Post
As far as forwards are concerned, Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, and Kovalchuk would be in top 6 in the NHL.
Datsyuk is questionable and I'm not even sure if I consider Kovalchuk top 10. He's probably the most overrated player in the NHL right now.

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02-25-2010, 11:09 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
You basically re-stated my point. Individually skilled superstars. As a team...meh. Kovalchuk on a sheet of ice by himself with a pail of pucks would be amazing to watch. He can score highlight reel goals. But in a pressure situation where he has to battle through adversity...nothing. He's not the only one, just an example.
You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

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Old
02-25-2010, 11:12 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Vladsky View Post
A scoreline of 4-2 Canada would be a better indicator of the two team's relative strength, if not for Nabby.
Yo... why you making up imaginary scores for?

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02-25-2010, 11:37 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Russian hockey had been in 15 year funk, Russia couldn't win WHC, forget Olympics. Only in the last three years Russian hockey started making a comeback.
And it is because of the Kovalchuks, Ovies and Malkins of this world, not because of Bykov's archaic tactics... who the hell still plays in quintets in modern hockey?

I'm sorry but to me Bykov is the number one reason to the poor tournament by team Russia. If you want your team to perform you have to put the players in a position to do so.

A blatant example of this is the misuse of key elements. With Russia's very weak defense, Markov being paired with Nikulin getting only 15 minutes on average is beyond idiotism. Markov should have been paired with Gonchar, getting close to 30 minutes in important games. And I'm tiered of hearing well Markov's still injured, first there's no evidence of that. Second, a banged up Markov is more useful than a healthy Nikulin. Not to mention that Markov and Gonchar have already played together, and played well.

http://www.russianhockeyfans.com/tea...mpics-107.html

It's one of the many blatant mistakes made by Bykov. I really hope they hire a north american coach, just as the foot fed has hired Guus. There's nothing to be ashamed of, it simply matches the new reality of hockey.

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02-25-2010, 11:43 PM
  #84
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Russian's need to face reality on a few key items:

1) They need better coaches, not these 1960's throwback ones.

2) They need a reality check on how "good" (sub-par) the KHL really is.

3) They need to teach their players about playing as a unit and not one-man-armies.

4) Need to develop better blueliners.

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02-26-2010, 01:15 AM
  #85
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Who actually chose the players for Team Russia? I keep seeing Bykov this and Bykov that. Is he supposed to do everything? He is coach and manager also? Doesn't he have assistants and a management team? Look at Canada. We can criticize Babcock for his tactics, etc. but no one is going to blame him for the players choices. That role goes to Yzerman and his management team. Maybe too much responsibility is on Bykov's shoulders. I notice European teams have similar structure. Bag of Sweden also coaches and also choses him team? Maybe this is the problem? Too much to do, not enough help?

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02-26-2010, 01:45 AM
  #86
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After watching the replay of the game I'm actually not as shocked any more. I think everything is ok and drastic changes don't need to happen, just small adjustments.

Because the way I see it, Russia lost for 3 reasons: One: HORRENDOUS turnovers. (I mean, really really bad stuff, against a team full of superstars no less). Two: Canada came out with the mindset to push the limits (read: cheat) as much as possible in the physical aspect of the game - something that defines them as a team as much as any other aspect of their game - and yet Russia was completely unprepared for it. Have they forgotten the past 40 years of encounters with Canadian hockey? Have they forgotten how to counter such play? I blame this on the coach. Third: goaltending.

None of the above are systematic problems, they are low level, game time problems that may or may not require a coaching change, but nothing more really.

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02-26-2010, 02:18 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmunnuch View Post
Two: Canada came out with the mindset to push the limits (read: cheat) as much as possible in the physical aspect of the game - something that defines them as a team as much as any other aspect of their game
Canadian hockey is about bringing it hard to the opponent. What on earth makes you think the Canadian team cheated in anyway?

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02-26-2010, 04:23 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by jbean View Post
Canadian hockey is about bringing it hard to the opponent. What on earth makes you think the Canadian team cheated in anyway?
There are 3 or 4 times in the first 10min of the quaterfinals game where a Canadian player would deliver a hit before the Russian player has reached the puck. That's called interference. They got called for it once, the hit on Morozov. There was another instance where a Canadian took about 8 direct strides to deliver a hit in the corner. That's called charging. This is how Canada has played for the past 40 years, nothing to be surprised by (in fact, this is the sole thing I feel Russia seemed to underestimate about Canada), nothing to be ashamed of. They play beyond the rules to overpower the opposition physically. You call it physical play, I call it cheating. Don't worry, I'm not the first Russian to think this. (Just for reference, what do you call slashing a player's ankle and breaking it? Physical play, or cheating? )

But here is the thing, I'm not saying Canada should do anything different. Their play is the reason Russia-Canada rivalry is so great. It's not just two teams, Canada isn't just an easily vilified opponent. Its two clashing philosophies, two worlds vying to show THEIR hockey is the superior hockey.

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02-26-2010, 04:28 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Canuck21t View Post
Who actually chose the players for Team Russia? I keep seeing Bykov this and Bykov that. Is he supposed to do everything? He is coach and manager also? Doesn't he have assistants and a management team? Look at Canada. We can criticize Babcock for his tactics, etc. but no one is going to blame him for the players choices. That role goes to Yzerman and his management team. Maybe too much responsibility is on Bykov's shoulders. I notice European teams have similar structure. Bag of Sweden also coaches and also choses him team? Maybe this is the problem? Too much to do, not enough help?
Bykov

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02-26-2010, 04:32 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by HackandLube View Post
Bykov
does anyone know why bykov has never chosen kovalev for his teams, does he have some beef with kovy, any ideas?

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02-26-2010, 04:47 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u8mylife47 View Post
As a supporter of Team Russia, I respectfully disagree.

The coaching is not good.

However, the roster will always be inferior to Canada. Team Canada never has any holes. They have the best goalies, the best defense, and (arguably) the best offense.

Our top two lines are roughly on par with their top two lines... except their their third and fourth lines are significantly better than our 3rd and 4th.

Team Canada always has a distinct advantage. On paper, they should always be heavily favourited. With their roster, they should never lose.

It's just funny when they do.
It's hockey anyone can win. Still when you look at our records in the Canada Cup/World Cup and 1998-present Olympics where it's truely been a best on best tournament Then Canada's won 6 out of 10 championships so far with a 50-14 record(not including ties) So dominating.

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02-26-2010, 05:01 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladiator View Post
As far as forwards are concerned, Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, and Kovalchuk would be in top 6 in the NHL.
Should have picked them for Team Russia then.

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Old
02-26-2010, 05:14 AM
  #93
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Bykov must go.

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02-26-2010, 05:19 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Washington Capitals View Post
Bykov must go.
i wonder who they should get to replace him, (i wonder if larionov would make a good coach)

i agree, bykov should be on the first train to the nearest gulag (joking of course) but you get my drift,

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02-26-2010, 05:24 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Vladsky View Post
When you don't have depth, you simply choose different tactics, which is the lesson taught by today's Swiss performance against the US. Just insert 2-3 Russian top 6 forwards in the Swiss lineup, and they send Team US home.
it is exactly this type of thinking that keeps getting proven wrong over and over again.

The swiss's offensive issues stems from the little they can produce from their defense, which never seem to correctly support their forwards, as they're obsessed defensively.

Your forwards wouldn't be sending anybody home.

Now you give the Swiss Weber and Niedermeyer, and Hiller plays an outstanding game, and all of a sudden you have a real shot.

Russia didn't lose because of the coaching staff. russia lost because the roles of hockey have changed. in the top six you have playmaking centers, and big strong shooters on the wings. that's perfect.

in the bottom six you have 2way guys that are known for their skating. where are your grinders that have scoring talent? where are your dedicated powerforwards that play int he low slot? where are your big impact defensemen?

volchenkov and tyutin are a nice beginning, for the defense but you need more players with size that are mobile. either that, or you need to buy into a 5-in-the-picture approach like finland, sweden, slovakia.

Offensive forwards do not win **** in hockey anymore. You need to be able to generate offense through your defense. and when your bottom six roles out, they can't just be your less gifted offensive players. they need to have real roles on the ice. go grind down the d, go force turnovers, go forecheck so hard you shut down a line from getting any chances during their shift. i mean really, which line was the Russia shut down line? have you not noticed that all the teams remaining have one?

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02-26-2010, 06:28 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by tmunnuch View Post
There are 3 or 4 times in the first 10min of the quaterfinals game where a Canadian player would deliver a hit before the Russian player has reached the puck. That's called interference. They got called for it once, the hit on Morozov. There was another instance where a Canadian took about 8 direct strides to deliver a hit in the corner. That's called charging. This is how Canada has played for the past 40 years, nothing to be surprised by (in fact, this is the sole thing I feel Russia seemed to underestimate about Canada), nothing to be ashamed of. They play beyond the rules to overpower the opposition physically. You call it physical play, I call it cheating. Don't worry, I'm not the first Russian to think this. (Just for reference, what do you call slashing a player's ankle and breaking it? Physical play, or cheating? )

But here is the thing, I'm not saying Canada should do anything different. Their play is the reason Russia-Canada rivalry is so great. It's not just two teams, Canada isn't just an easily vilified opponent. Its two clashing philosophies, two worlds vying to show THEIR hockey is the superior hockey.
That's a great way to put the rivalry of Canada/Russia I think.

Also, you bring up that Canada only got called for their "cheating" once, but what about when Russia had too many men on the ice at two different points in the game? :p

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02-26-2010, 07:25 AM
  #97
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what about the dive of Morozov?

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02-26-2010, 07:43 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Canuck21t View Post
Who actually chose the players for Team Russia? I keep seeing Bykov this and Bykov that. Is he supposed to do everything? He is coach and manager also? Doesn't he have assistants and a management team? Look at Canada. We can criticize Babcock for his tactics, etc. but no one is going to blame him for the players choices. That role goes to Yzerman and his management team. Maybe too much responsibility is on Bykov's shoulders. I notice European teams have similar structure. Bag of Sweden also coaches and also choses him team? Maybe this is the problem? Too much to do, not enough help?
From a European pov it seems weird that the person choosing the players is not the same one coaching them.

There is really nothing to suggest doing it your way achieves better results. I mean, BÅG led his team to the gold medal, so how can this be a "problem"?

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02-26-2010, 09:05 AM
  #99
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From a European pov it seems weird that the person choosing the players is not the same one coaching them.

There is really nothing to suggest doing it your way achieves better results. I mean, BÅG led his team to the gold medal, so how can this be a "problem"?
Some Russian fans have mentioned that Bykov does not know the NHL enough. Well maybe if they had a management team who could scout the league, they'd have a better idea about the NHL talent and who they're up against.

Last season, Babcock was busy coaching the Wings during the playoffs. Steve Yzerman was at the World Championships to assess our own talent but also to observe the opposition. Hitchcock coached the last World Championships or the year before? IMO, it's a better approach because you cover more ground. It's tough to do that with one person.

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Old
02-26-2010, 09:55 AM
  #100
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After thinking it over I came to a realization that Canada just had a better team from top to bottom. Russia has the best player in the world, but Canda's depth is really unmatched. That game reminded me of the Pens/Caps series, individually Caps had the best player but Pens had a better team and we couldn't break their forecheck to save our lives much like Russia vs Canada.

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