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Malkin really considered part of a "Big 3" Talk?

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Old
02-25-2010, 02:21 PM
  #51
craigw99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomDelonge View Post
Where in my posts did you get this??
The part where you described his game last night in detail, then threw out a very quick and vague "The rest of his season has been less than stellar" at the end.

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02-25-2010, 02:24 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigw99 View Post
The part where you described his game last night in detail, then threw out a very quick and vague "The rest of his season has been less than stellar" at the end.
Sorry, next time ill write countless of paragraphs on topics i start threads on.

Instead of saying something just about everyone on HF already knows in one sentence.

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02-25-2010, 02:25 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomDelonge View Post
Sorry, next time ill write countless of paragraphs on topics i start threads on.

Instead of saying something just about everyone on HF already knows in one sentence.
ok. Thanks

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02-25-2010, 02:37 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomDelonge View Post
Everyone considers malkin as part of the "big 3" , but after last night, I don't know if I can consider him hands down as apart of the big 3, and maybe it should just be Crosby + OV hands down with Malkin on Getzlaf/Datz level. He was invisible, made terrible plays, and im not just saying oh one game, he hasn't been stellar all season. Still an amazing player, but if you think you can try to debate him as "mal-king" best player in the world then come on. He is still amazing but I would probably compare him to the Jagr of the past, amazing but just below the top two of Crosby and OV/ Mario and Gretz.
I don't agree with you for the most part, although I understand what you are trying to say.

First, judging a player based primarily on one game, one tournament, even one season is not really valid.

Until last night, everyone was down on Getzlaf and many were praising Ovechkin... now, I'd guess it's reversed.

Earlier this season, Crosby had a slump (with Malkin out) and many wondered if the kid had lost it.

Malkin's having an off year (for him) and so is being doubted.

Second, not sure using Gretzky, Lemieux and Jagr for comparison's sake is the best choice. Gretzky and Jagr were not really in their primes at the same time, and there were only 2-3 seasons when Lemieux and Jagr were both in their prime (although they had some outstanding seasons on same team, like Crosby/Malkin).

As far as Malkin being the Jagr of the past... that would be high praise indeed for any of the three players. I assume you were trying to make an analogy, not yet compare any of the three current players to any of the former three greats.

Malkin is like Jagr in some ways. He is considered by most as "second fiddle" on the Pens to Crosby, yet has proven himself as a great player himself. He also does not seem to get the same media attention as Ovechkin and Crosby.

I would not count Malkin out among the three, they each have another five seasons before any fair comparison can be made.

You name Jagr only because he established himself as the best or one of the best players in the game over many seasons. This was not a foregone conclusion when he entered the league. If you asked experts or fans, after Jagr's first three full seasons, "which young forward will be best?"... with choices like Lindros, Bure, and Selanne, how many would pick Jagr?

Malkin is somewhat in the shadow of Crosby and Ovechkin (teammates of his in NHL and Olympics), much like Jagr (Lemieux... Lindros... you pick).

People remember Crosby/Ovechkin showdown in playoffs (and now Olympic), but hope they also remember Malkin leading the Pens before and after that series. Also, it struck me that the Pens would not lose easily to Detroit, when saw that Malkin was mixing it up a bit with Wings' players at the end of game 2 in SCF.

Who can say what the future holds? Despite Jagr's reputation to some as a lazy, disinterested, "natural" player, it was really his drive to improve and intensive strength training that elevated him from a very good player with flashes of brilliance to the best in the game and kept him among the best for most of his career.

It will be whichever player(s) have the drive to continually improve and maintain their abilities, and can best adapt to change that will be most likely to eventually be considered among the greatest.

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Old
02-25-2010, 03:19 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomDelonge View Post
Everyone considers malkin as part of the "big 3" , but after last night, I don't know if I can consider him hands down as apart of the big 3, and maybe it should just be Crosby + OV hands down with Malkin on Getzlaf/Datz level. He was invisible, made terrible plays, and im not just saying oh one game, he hasn't been stellar all season. Still an amazing player, but if you think you can try to debate him as "mal-king" best player in the world then come on. He is still amazing but I would probably compare him to the Jagr of the past, amazing but just below the top two of Crosby and OV/ Mario and Gretz.
Are you actually placing Malkin and Jagr on the same level and placing Ovechkin and Crosby above Jagr and putting them on Gretzky's and Lemieux' level?

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02-25-2010, 03:41 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Are you actually placing Malkin and Jagr on the same level and placing Ovechkin and Crosby above Jagr and putting them on Gretzky's and Lemieux' level?
... Because if you are... you'll have Jags6868 to answer to.

You DO use the search function to find every thread that mentions Jagr in it, don't you?

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02-25-2010, 03:51 PM
  #57
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Malkin was the best player in the NHL last year. So I'd still consider him in that group.
Anyone who watched the playoffs especially. Aside from game 1 nad 2 against the caps, that was Malkin's team. Not Crosbey's.

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02-25-2010, 03:52 PM
  #58
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Seriously, only on HF can 1 bad game in the Olympics negate a scoring title, a Conn Smythe, two 2nd place finishes for MVP of the whole league etc. He has proven through all of that, that his name belongs with the top players in the game. He had on off game and has had a down season, but that happens to everybody at some point.

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02-25-2010, 03:57 PM
  #59
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Caps fan making a thread about Malkin being overrated. totally unexpected...

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02-25-2010, 03:58 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorFC-TML View Post


So based on last nights game, Crosby, Ovechkni and Malkin are all overhyped; Getzlaf, Perry and Boyle are the new 'big 3'.

Sounds about right using HF logic. All three were quiet last night, doesn't make any sense to call one of them out over the other two.

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02-25-2010, 04:47 PM
  #61
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Man, I'm perplexed with people throwing in Crosby with the other two based on last nights performance. Crosby was good, he did pretty much everything but score. He was forechecking, he was physical, he was making things happen, winning battles. Made one of the best non-goal plays of the game when he knocked down Volchenkov in the corner on the forecheck, and down on one knee hit Niedermayer with a perfect cross pass. If only Niedermayer were a right hand shot. He also drew the penalty on Dan Boyle's goal, showing impressive speed in getting behind the defense.

He was put on ice in the third along with a few other players when the game was out of hand, and he didn't get a lot of shifts after Staal got shaken up, but he still almost potted one at the end. I didn't find him to be quiet at all.

Malkin wasn't good, his giveaway was costly, but I don't think he was any worse than any other Russian forward. People are mentioning Datsyuk here. Now that guy was dreadful.

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Old
02-25-2010, 04:59 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty View Post
Man, I'm perplexed with people throwing in Crosby with the other two based on last nights performance. Crosby was good, he did pretty much everything but score. He was forechecking, he was physical, he was making things happen, winning battles. Made one of the best non-goal plays of the game when he knocked down Volchenkov in the corner on the forecheck, and down on one knee hit Niedermayer with a perfect cross pass. If only Niedermayer were a right hand shot. He also drew the penalty on Dan Boyle's goal, showing impressive speed in getting behind the defense.

He was put on ice in the third along with a few other players when the game was out of hand, and he didn't get a lot of shifts after Staal got shaken up, but he still almost potted one at the end. I didn't find him to be quiet at all.

Malkin wasn't good, his giveaway was costly, but I don't think he was any worse than any other Russian forward. People are mentioning Datsyuk here. Now that guy was dreadful.
This is one of the most frustrating things about this forum. Too often the posters on here judge a player's performance strictly by how many points he registered.

Only on HF does no points automatically equal a bad or invisible game.

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02-25-2010, 05:01 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by KeepitinPitt View Post
While there's no doubt Malkin is having a sub par year by his standards, when he brings is A game some would argue that no one is better. He can dominate both ends of the ice and yes, call me crazy but I think Malkin has it in him to be Selke winner in the future. His talent alone puts comfortably within the top 3 and one year isn't going to change that. This thread is the equivalent of an OV>Crosby or Crosby > OV thread after a Capitals/Penguins game. People are quick to proclaim one player better or worse than the other based on the results of the last game their two teams played. It's extremely short sighted and not a very good way to evaluate talent.
Absolutely. I don't know where the notion comes from that Malkin is one-dimensional but he is a beast on the back-check. Even this year when he's been struggling, that hasn't changed.

Yeah, he's made a lot of bad turnovers when trying to make a play, but you know what, Sid does his share of that too. That turnover last night that led to a goal? Sid has done that a few times this year as well.

I think this comes from the fact that Ovechkin and Sid have that "running" style of skating that makes it look like they're working harder, while Malkin is is more like Lemieux, gracefully gliding up and down the ice. It's deceiving because it looks lazy but he always gets to where he needs to be.

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Old
02-25-2010, 06:27 PM
  #64
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Malkin is not on Getz Dats or whoever. He is the in the big 3 but he is the worst one out of them. Sure he Led the Playoffs in scoring last season but Crosby took on the best defencemen and Was way better in faceoffs and Defence and he only had 5 less points and Sid had more goals. Malkin is far above anyone in the league not Named Crosby or Ovechkin.

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02-25-2010, 06:42 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don'tcry4mejanhrdina View Post

How do people explain Malkin's production in 2007-08 when Crosby was injured? His production went through the roof when facing the other teams' "shutdown" guys.
Ryan Malone, the TRUE leader of the Pittsburgh Penguins says hi.

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02-25-2010, 06:48 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by TomDelonge View Post
Where in my posts did you get this?? Im judging him on his whole season, in which ive had a chance to watch the pens a lot more.

This game was just another drop in the bucket.
Here's a fun exercise - look at the quality of teammates. Find Ovie, then try to find Malkin:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2009/new_...ction=qualcomp

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02-25-2010, 06:49 PM
  #67
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Malkin > Ovechkin and Crosbfloater

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02-25-2010, 07:01 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by BigT2002 View Post
Having a bad year all together IMO. I never considered him at that level anyways.Was always at the Getz/Dats/Zets level IMO. Great player when he's on, but hyper stars like Ovy and Crosby have proven they do not falter year in and year out.
I second all of this. Malkin had a great season in 08/09, but I never thought he was as good as Crosby or AO.

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02-25-2010, 07:09 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
Notice how the "Big Three" all play in the Eastern conference, and if you look at the "Big Two" Ovie and Crosby they are both highly marketable.

Don't buy into all the media hype around a big three. This isnt like Wayne and Mario where they were head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There is a ton of parity in the NHL with many players very close behind these three.
Obviously a fan of a western team; too bad you don't get to see these guys much. You're missing a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Datsyuk is better.
Wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashurian View Post
Malkin > Ovechkin and Crosbfloater
Crosbfloater? Seriously, have you ever really watched him play?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
I second all of this. Malkin had a great season in 08/09, but I never thought he was as good as Crosby or AO.
The fact is, coming from someone who has seen all but maybe 10 games in person or on TV that Geno has ever played in the NHL, for a 23 year old kid, there are times in which he is truely breathtaking, can single-handedly take over a game, and does things I've never seen since a guy who wore 66 on his sweater.

Ten or fifteen years from now, this era will be defined by 71, 87 and, oh yes, 8.

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02-25-2010, 07:19 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Mondello View Post
Crosbfloater? Seriously, have you ever really watched him play?
honestly haven't noticed him all tournament, except for a few giveaways and the 12 shootout/penalty shots he took

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02-25-2010, 07:22 PM
  #71
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Maybe I am a bit bias but I thought there was really no question who the two best russians were during the Olympics.

Datsyuk and Ovi

Ovi: Because he was offensively dominant
Datsyuk: Because he was the only forward playing defense.

While Datsyuk did not put up the numbers he really appeared to be the glue holding Russia together. (I watched Russia v. Czech and Russia v. Canada. He was on the ice at the most important times, he was the only one who appeared to hold his own against Canada, and he matched up against Jagr.

What Ovi was to game breaking offense, Dats was to solid team play and defensive responsibility. Each drove their own lines. Malkin did not appear to have the same presence... none of the other Russians did. Kovalchuck was even more disapointing then Malkin imo.

At the end of the Canada game Dats Afineganov (sp) and Kovalchuck(sp) were a joy to watch and seemed to be the most effective.

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02-25-2010, 07:25 PM
  #72
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honestly haven't noticed him all tournament, except for a few giveaways and the 12 shootout/penalty shots he took
Every post I've seen of you on this forum is just trashing Crosby, so you're seeing Crosby through choice glasses. Crosby is the furthest possible thing from a floater and is having a damn good tournament.

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Old
02-25-2010, 08:08 PM
  #73
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Malkin is very much a part of the big three.

I recall him carrying the Penguins on his back just last season. If it was not for him the team wouldn't have made the playoffs where he put in his MVP performance to help his team win the Stanley Cup. The team would NOT have won the Stanley Cup without him. (Okay maybe they would have made the playoffs but a Stanley Cup? No)

Fact; Last season many HF posters put Malkin in front of Crosby.

Fact; Since Crosby is having a better year than Malkin this year Malkin is an afterthought next to Crosby.

Malkin is having an off year coming off a minor injury this year. If Malkin only puts up 95-points this season (and I shouldn't say ONLY) and puts up a bad game in the Olympics doesn't mean he isn't part of the "Big Three." Just a year ago he carried the load for the whole Pittsburgh organization and a lot of their fans wouldn't have seen a Stanley Cup. The year before when the Penguins went to the Playoffs and faced off against Detroit in the Finals... The Penguins wouldn't have even sniffed at a playoff spot with Crosby out of the line up and without Malkin playing the way he did. In 07-08 he single handedly put the Penguins in the playoffs. In 08-09 he was the biggest reason the Penguins won the Stanley Cup. If's he isn't up there with Ovechkin / Crosby I think people are diluting themselves.

An off year and a bad game means nothing.

Nabokov had an awful game in Russia. Doesn't mean he is a bad player. Lundqvist had an absolutely horrid game against Slovakia and in my opinion is one of the primary reasons they didn't win a game they dominated. That doesn't mean I think he sucks either. I think both Nabokov and Lundqvist are two of the best goaltenders in the NHL, regardless of a poor game. Same applies to Malkin.

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02-25-2010, 08:26 PM
  #74
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I think Malkin earned the right to be considered in the top 3 last year. Art Ross, Smythe trophy. He earned a seat at the table.

Every player, Crosby with his injury, Ovechkin's second season (still good) have an off year for whatever reason. Off game and bad tournaments.

With 20 games left, Malkin is having an okay season and has a chance to improve. He also has a chance to have another good playoff run. If he fails to do both of these things and follows with a similar regular season next year, then he needs to leave the table.

He definately is putting doubt in peoples minds. He needs to get it together, that really can't be argued.

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02-25-2010, 08:32 PM
  #75
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