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Malkin really considered part of a "Big 3" Talk?

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Old
02-25-2010, 08:48 PM
  #76
jmelm
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Datsyuk is better.

Try comparing the 2 of them at the same age.


I'd also like to see a player that's having such a bad year putting up those kind of numbers, on a team with the worst power play and with some of the worst scoring wingers.

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02-25-2010, 09:15 PM
  #77
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Russia as a whole played horribly. . . Ovechkin didn't look any better than Geno against Canada.

They both looked damn good other nights.

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02-25-2010, 09:16 PM
  #78
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LOL Nabokov made every Russian palyer look like garbage

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02-25-2010, 09:51 PM
  #79
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Malkin has an art ross and a conn smythe in the past two years. He's 22 years old. It's going to take more than one "bad" olympics and one "off" season in the NHL for him to drop out of the big 3.

Granted, I would rank them Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, in that order... but Malkin has the talent and the skill to catapult himself to the #1 spot in the next year.

If he does bad in this year's playoffs, and the 10-11 season, well... then we can talk about him dropping down to the level of Getzlaf/Datsyuk

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02-25-2010, 09:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by AVSfan2daMAX View Post
Malkin was the best player in the NHL last year. So I'd still consider him in that group.
Anyone who watched the playoffs especially. Aside from game 1 nad 2 against the caps, that was Malkin's team. Not Crosbey's.
That's laughable, at best. They played equally great. In fact, Crosby was probably better.

Without Crosby taking that team on his back, they wouldn't have made it past Philly. Against Washington, if he wasn't producing at a two points per game pace, they would have been knocked out in, at the most, five games. He drew the other team's top checking lines and defensemen, allowing Malkin and the rest of the forwards to shine. He led the NHL in goals, killed crucial penalties, blocked shots, was +9, had a 54% faceoff percentage (winning 281 faceoffs to Malkin's 83) and carried the weight of being team captain. He also had the added benefit of being able to speak English and openly communicate to his team.

Yeah, sounds like "Malkin's team".

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02-25-2010, 09:57 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
That's laughable, at best. They played equally great. In fact, Crosby was probably better.

Without Crosby taking that team on his back, they wouldn't have made it past Philly. Against Washington, if he wasn't producing at a two points per game pace, they would have been knocked out in, at the most, five games. He drew the other team's top checking lines and defensemen, allowing Malkin and the rest of the forwards to shine. He led the NHL in goals, killed crucial penalties, blocked shots, was +9, had a 54% faceoff percentage, and carried the weight of being team captain. He also had the added benefit of being able to speak English and openly communicate to his team.

Yeah, sounds like "Malkin's team".
Crosby also couldn't generate anything against Zetterberg the entire 7-game set in the Stanley Cup Finals. Malkin was the biggest reason they won a Stanley Cup. Through the first three rounds their level of play was pretty equal. Come SCF Malkin was the one who shined.

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02-25-2010, 10:03 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
Crosby also couldn't generate anything against Zetterberg the entire 7-game set in the Stanley Cup Finals. Malkin was the biggest reason they won a Stanley Cup. Through the first three rounds their level of play was pretty equal. Come SCF Malkin was the one who shined.
Actually, he couldn't do much against Zetteberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Lidstrom, and Rafalski. Who did that leave Malkin to match up against? The entire playoffs, Crosby was draped over by the other teams' best players, which allowed Malkin to step it up offensively. Even with that said, they were relatively equal offensively. And Crosby did the little things better than Malkin. But, of course, that stuff doesn't show up on the score sheet.

It's the same deal with this Olympics. Everytime Crosby is out on the ice, the other teams' best players have his number. This has opened up opportunity for the other lines to shine.

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02-25-2010, 10:09 PM
  #83
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All of Russia looked horrible last night. Even Ovechkin. So is he no longer considered part of the big three?

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02-25-2010, 10:14 PM
  #84
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am i the only one who would take malkin before crosby and ovy? i dont no why, i think he can just get it done when he wants too.

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02-25-2010, 10:20 PM
  #85
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I love how unspecific people are in these arguments.

People talk about Crosby being guarded by the opponent's best players as if this is a game of basketball. Some coaches are big on match-ups, and I know Babcock was keying in on Sid, but that only applied for the games in Detroit. Plus some coaches don't even play match-ups at all. On the whole, I'm very skeptical about that argument.

Then people say that Sid does "the little things better." Like what? Faceoffs, what else? Sid is no better defensively than Malkin is. In fact, Malkin's size and reach makes him a more effective checking player than Sid.

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02-25-2010, 10:32 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Ashurian View Post
honestly haven't noticed him all tournament, except for a few giveaways and the 12 shootout/penalty shots he took
honestly you behave like you lose a pound each and every time you think about Crosby. I mean we got your point,you hate him,but you have to know when to stop,it really makes you look ridiculous.

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02-25-2010, 10:34 PM
  #87
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He played hurt the first month of the season then sat for 8 games for the injury. He plays with BY FAR the most god awful linemates of any star player and he'll still end up with around 90 to 100 points. AND this has been a really down year for him. He is right there with the other two and better than everyone else. I would kill to see him play consistently on the same line with an allstar or at least a decent player.

He also led Russia in points with 3g and 3a in the Olympics so don't tell me about how he was invisible. Haters are just taking the Canada game in which no one on Russia had any passion and basing this garbage off it. I seriously don't understand how people just forget or ignore the past few years that quickly.

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02-25-2010, 10:35 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Pens15 View Post
Then people say that Sid does "the little things better." Like what? Faceoffs, what else? Sid is no better defensively than Malkin is. In fact, Malkin's size and reach makes him a more effective checking player than Sid.
When Malkin is absolutely on he can be more dominant than Crosby defensively because of his size and reach. There have been quite a number of games where this was so over the past two years, but in general there's no comparison, because Crosby's consistency is much higher and his number of dodgy decisions in critical areas is much lower. Yes - he has slightly more turnovers than Geno in general, but its while trying to make plays in the offensive zone. I'm a major Geno backer, but he is more costly with his give aways.

Anyway - at 23 years of age Geno has averaged 100 points per season prior to this one, been the Hart runner up the past two seasons, and has an Art Ross and a Conn Smythe as late as last season. This season he has been way below his usual form, playing with a hilariously bad Fedotenko and Dupuis/recovering Talbot/call-ups, and he is on pace for 90 points.

If you argue that he isn't quite up there with Crosby and AO yet, OK I guess. But in that case there's no one sharing 3rd with Malkin, and there won't be before someone starts coming close to matching what he has been doing in his second and third season in the league. He is closer to being on par with the other two than anyone else is to being equal with him.

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02-25-2010, 10:54 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
When Malkin is absolutely on he can be more dominant than Crosby defensively because of his size and reach. There have been quite a number of games where this was so over the past two years, but in general there's no comparison, because Crosby's consistency is much higher and his number of dodgy decisions in critical areas is much lower. Yes - he has slightly more turnovers than Geno in general, but its while trying to make plays in the offensive zone. I'm a major Geno backer, but he is more costly with his give aways.

Anyway - at 23 years of age Geno has averaged 100 points per season prior to this one, been the Hart runner up the past two seasons, and has an Art Ross and a Conn Smythe as late as last season. This season he has been way below his usual form, playing with a hilariously bad Fedotenko and Dupuis/recovering Talbot/call-ups, and he is on pace for 90 points.

If you argue that he isn't quite up there with Crosby and AO yet, OK I guess. But in that case there's no one sharing 3rd with Malkin, and there won't be before someone starts coming close to matching what he has been doing in his second and third season in the league. He is closer to being on par with the other two than anyone else is to being equal with him.

This

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Old
02-25-2010, 10:55 PM
  #90
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I've never though Malkin was as good as Crosby or Ovechkin. There's a reason why opponents have their top checking line match up against Crosby's line, not Malkin's. Not to say that Malkin wouldn't still do great, as he sure did when Crosby was injured, just saying that the Pens opponents worry about Crosby more. As for Ovechkin, well, to me, he's the best player in the league.

As for last night's game, I know neither Ovechkin nor Malkin had a good game. However, I did notice that Canada had to work a lot harder and hustle more to contain Ovechkin. Canada deserves all the credit in the world for how they defended him. Weber and Doughty did a fantastic job of boxing and forcing him out toward the boards and not allowing him to get to the middle of the ice. As for Malkin, I felt that he was trying to do too much by himself, such as the play where Toews stripped him, which lead to the goal by Nash. Malkin's decision making looked somewhat off.

While neither of them had a good game, for Ovechkin it was because of the plan Canada had to defend him which was a great plan executed greatly, so when it comes to Ovechkin having a bad game, you must give Canada credit. They were ready for him. But everything about Malkin just looked off.

I know Malkin had a bad game and has had a sub par season for his standards, but still, he is a great player. And there's no shame in being 3rd behind great players like Ovechkin and Crosby.

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02-25-2010, 10:56 PM
  #91
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02-25-2010, 11:02 PM
  #92
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The fact you would use a sample size of 1 game to push him out of the "big 3" is hilarious.

Dude, I heard that Gretzky once went pointless and -2 in a game!!! What a horrible player he should be kicked out of the Orr/Lemieux/Howe club!!!

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02-25-2010, 11:08 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacific NW fan View Post
I've never though Malkin was as good as Crosby or Ovechkin. There's a reason why opponents have their top checking line match up against Crosby's line, not Malkin's.
The fact that they have to choose one and Crosby's linemates are always better? Perhaps?

What line do you use your shut down line against:

Kunitz Malkin Guerin
Fedotenko Crosby Dupuis

Like I said earlier, you can make an argument that Malkin isn't on Sid's/Ovechkin's level yet because of consistency issues, but your argument here doesn't make the case. The correct answer to the above would be: Malkin's line.
Crosby is the captain of the Pens and he gets the best line-mates. Arguably because he is better, but over the past two seasons... more so because he is the captain and face of the franchise.

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02-25-2010, 11:48 PM
  #94
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Malkin was Russia's most dangerous player. Enough said.

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02-25-2010, 11:48 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
The fact that they have to choose one and Crosby's linemates are always better? Perhaps?

What line do you use your shut down line against:

Kunitz Malkin Guerin
Fedotenko Crosby Dupuis

Like I said earlier, you can make an argument that Malkin isn't on Sid's/Ovechkin's level yet because of consistency issues, but your argument here doesn't make the case. The correct answer to the above would be: Malkin's line.
Crosby is the captain of the Pens and he gets the best line-mates. Arguably because he is better, but over the past two seasons... more so because he is the captain and face of the franchise.
It's also because before this season (in which Crosby has shown that he can score goals, too), Malkin was the player more able to "do it all himself" and put up big numbers without good linemates.

During any given day/week/month, you could say any of these 3 are "the best". And while Malkin may not get that label as often as the other 2, he still has the best pure potential and highest upside of any of those 3 players.

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Old
02-26-2010, 12:22 AM
  #96
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Malkin is epic. One game does not suddenly take that away from him.

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02-26-2010, 01:08 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Buzzed Penguin View Post
AO only falters in big games. Game 7 Penguins. WJC. Last night. No show when it really counts.
I don't think its "no show" at all.

Seems to me OV always goes all out, and doesn't anything extra to bring to the big games. Sure makes for some exciting viewing during the regular season tho.

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02-26-2010, 03:42 PM
  #98
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I don't think its "no show" at all.

Seems to me OV always goes all out, and doesn't anything extra to bring to the big games. Sure makes for some exciting viewing during the regular season tho.
Exactly.

Although Ovechkin is very skilled at certain things, he's quite limited in his skill set.

He's just about an average passer, he always skates the same way and eventually his skating style will hurt and get him injured.

He's not a very good cycle type player and he doesn't use his linemates well.

That said he's quite exciting, can score some nice goals and can hit.

He's the NHL's new Lindros while Malkin/Crosby are the NHL's new Jagr.

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02-26-2010, 03:45 PM
  #99
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I have been saying it for 3 years, Malkin has NEVER been to the level of Crosby/Ovechkin. Very inconsistent.

I would argue for players like Parise being far better than Malkin too. Not a Malkin fan at all.

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02-26-2010, 07:20 PM
  #100
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Questioning Malkin's competitive drive is a joke. Do you even watch this guy play? On what basis do you say he gives inconsistent effort? Does he make lazy plays? Yeah. Everybody does, including Crosby. Those of you saying Crosby gives 100% on every shift are kidding yourselves. He does on 98%. I'm nitpicking. Sick and tired of hearing people exaggerate and pretend that a human being gives his best effort all the time. I'll get to Ovechkin's effort level later. I don't get how you can watch Malkin play on a consistent basis and say he doesn't have the competitive drive of Ovechkin or Crosby. He's been one of the most consistent players in terms of production and effort level in the league. Inconsistent effort has never been his reputation, even going back to his years in Russia. Read what his coaches have said about him, including Sykora, King, Therrien, and Bylsma. Inconsistent effort was a media explanation for his poor play in the 2008 final and it's been their explanation for poor play since. It's always cited as the reason he isn't on the level of Ovechkin or Crosby. It's a canard. He's less mature than Crosby, no doubt. To say he's not a leader? Unreal. Therrien is not a soft coach who gives out compliments. He called Malkin a true leader last year.

I'm calling bullsh*t on those who say Ovechkin has unmatched passion, as I heard a commentator say the other night. Often when you protest too much about someone's qualities, they show a lacking of those qualities. We saw that the other night. In one of the biggest games of his career, Ovechkin floated as two Canadian goals were scored. Don't tell me a player has unmatched passion and drive when he plays in one end of the rink. If you want to know the answer to why Ovechkin loses in big games, it's that he and his team (Washington or Russia) are not committed to playing winning hockey. Offense will get you far. Defense wins championships. He plays hockey that wins you individual trophies. Don't call him a leader until he commits to winning hockey.

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