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Sharks Trade Deadline Deals & General Pre-Deadline Trade/Speculation Talk Part Deux

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Old
02-28-2010, 06:25 PM
  #26
matt trick
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Originally Posted by TNT8592 View Post
hey guys i was wondering what do you think we could get for seto in the offseason? similar to the kessel deal?
Even if Setoguchi equaled the year he had last year, he would still have been cheaper than Kessel. Kessel's year last year was better than Seto's and in another world from his play this year. With that said, Setoguchi's contract will vary considerable with the length he receives. If San Jose wants to lock him up long term, the cost will be far more. If they are willing to do a short deal, they could probably get him for one year at 2.5 million, or 2 years at 3mill each. Essentially, add 500k for each additional year, and for longer contracts, each additional two years i.e:

Year Cap Hit
1$2,500,000
2$3,000,000
3$3,500,000
4$3,500,000
5$4,000,000
6$4mill-4.5

Comparable contracts:
PlayerYearsCap hit
David Booth6$4,000,000
Nathan Horton6$4,000,000
Milan Michalek6$4,333,333
Loui Eriksson6$4,250,000
Dustin Brown6$3,600,000
Andrei Kostisyn3$3,250,000
Zach Parise3$3,125,00
Chris Versteeg3$3,083,000
Wojitek Wolski2$2,800,000
Ryan Callahan2$2,300,000
Drew Stafford2$1,900,000
James NealRFAThis Summer
UFAs  
Rene Bourque6$3,300,000
Chris Kunitz4$3,725,000

Bolded are better offensively, better two-way players, or both.

Why is six years so common? No idea, it is similar how young top 4 d-men who play PP get 4 years 3.0-3.75.

If someone would like, I can also do two-way second line centers for Pavelski, but it is generally 3-6 years and $3.25-4 million.

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02-28-2010, 06:30 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by gregpalm76 View Post
Yes, let's trade Clowe, the guy who fights, scores, makes plays, goes into the corners, is strong on the boards, and has more heart than most of the guys on the team. Soon enough you folks will be hopping on the Clowe bandwagon just like the Murray one.
I'd be in favor of moving both of them in the off-season if the right deal came along.

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02-28-2010, 06:32 PM
  #28
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I'd be in favor of moving both of them in the off-season if the right deal came along.
I like chocolate milk. Make sense much?

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02-28-2010, 06:35 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by gregpalm76 View Post
I like chocolate milk. Make sense much?
PF is a little biased when it comes to Murray, because he doesn't agree/like the overhyping on our parts.

I wouldn't mind seeing Clowe go though. Until he plays like he did last year, and not like a smaller (and slower) version of Joe Thornton, I want him traded in a package for a top-4 dman.

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02-28-2010, 06:37 PM
  #30
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really, after this season if he gets more than 3mil its an overpayment. He would also be foolish to sign for for a long term deal because his potential indicates he should be able to produce at a rate that should net a 4ish salary.

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02-28-2010, 06:38 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by gregpalm76 View Post
Yes, let's trade Clowe, the guy who fights, scores, makes plays, goes into the corners, is strong on the boards, and has more heart than most of the guys on the team. Soon enough you folks will be hopping on the Clowe bandwagon just like the Murray one.
I go back and forth on Clowe. I love his grit and some of his efforts in past postseasons. If it came down to having the gritty, but slow, power-forward play-maker Ryane Clowe for the extremely fast, far better defensively and goal scoring but older Marco Sturm, it is something I'd think about. Sure Clowe brings a dynamic that Sturm (although he is feisty) and much of the rest of the team does not, but a Sturm-Marleau-Setoguchi line could really wreak havoc on team's second pairings. Clowe is a solid player, the problem is he doesn't have much chemistry with Marleau and a Clowe-Thornton-Heatley line is slow and pretty bad defensively. It makes splitting up the top forwards difficult (though doing so may be unnecessary in the first place). I think Clowe is the more valuable asset than Sturm, but it wouldn't surprise me if Marco was the better fit. Someone offers Sturm+1st/tor 2nd pick for Clowe+2nd 2011, I'd probably take it, if I was confident it wouldn't mess with chemistry.

To be honest, as long as we get Marleau, Pavelski, and Setoguchi signed and don't move Heater, Thornton, Boyle, or Vlasic, I will be a happy camper. I think Doug can extend his cup winning window from this year, to another 4 if he plays his cards right.

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02-28-2010, 06:42 PM
  #32
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I'd rather package Mitchell, et al, and draft picks than Clowe. We're going to need more than 2 scoring lines to compete against Chicago's 4. Yes, he is getting overpaid on the third line but it's not necessarily his fault he lacks chemistry with Joe $$ and Seto. Pavelski pretty much fills the role of the play-maker on that line and his speed with Clowe's is a big reason that line failed.

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02-28-2010, 06:50 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by gregpalm76 View Post
I'd rather package Mitchell, et al, and draft picks than Clowe. We're going to need more than 2 scoring lines to compete against Chicago's 4. Yes, he is getting overpaid on the third line but it's not necessarily his fault he lacks chemistry with Joe $$ and Seto. Pavelski pretty much fills the role of the play-maker on that line and his speed with Clowe's is a big reason that line failed.
Honestly, I'd move Torrey Mitchell too if the right deal came along. Yes, in the off-season I would actively look into moving Murray, Clowe, and Mitchell. I'd keep Marleau, Pavelski, Setoguchi, and even Nabokov over any of those three.

The biggest reason why Clowe-Pavelski-Setoguchi failed is because of Ryane Clowe and really nobody else. His inability to consistently plant his butt in front of the net is why it isn't working. Michalek-Pavelski-Clowe was working just fine until Clowe started drifting away to the side boards. Setoguchi isn't all that dissimilar to Michalek offensively and really the only thing that changed was Clowe.

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Old
02-28-2010, 06:58 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The biggest reason why Clowe-Pavelski-Setoguchi failed is because of Ryane Clowe and really nobody else. His inability to consistently plant his butt in front of the net is why it isn't working. Michalek-Pavelski-Clowe was working just fine until Clowe started drifting away to the side boards. Setoguchi isn't all that dissimilar to Michalek offensively and really the only thing that changed was Clowe.
Not sure about that. Seto's numbers are pretty horrendous this year and have taken a major drop-off. So he stopped playing on the first line with Thornton. Doesn't really justify the numbers nonetheless. Clowe is perhaps on pace for a career season if he can get it going on that third line.

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02-28-2010, 07:04 PM
  #35
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really, after this season if he gets more than 3mil its an overpayment. He would also be foolish to sign for for a long term deal because his potential indicates he should be able to produce at a rate that should net a 4ish salary.
Of course, taking the long term salary now would likely work out the same as taking a short term deal now, and getting a 4x4.25-4.5 deal later.

6x4=24mill.
(2x3)+(4x4.25)=23mill or 24mill if he gets 4.5. He would need to hit 5.5 to make a huge difference (28 vs. 24).

So only a 4 million difference.

I could see him taking either. I personally would prefer the 3 million because that is the difference between a borderline #4 guy at 2.5 and a real two-way top 4 d-man at 3.5.

Doug can do virtually anything he wants this offseason, provided he is willing to make at least one sacrifice (unless #2 happens).

Option 1: Start over.
-Let Marleau and/or Nabby walk. Possibly move Jumbo. With the acquisition of Heatley, I see moving Thornton as impossible. He frequently annoys the hell out of me, but he double's Heater's danger. Maybe he would work well with Pavs, but you I don't think you trade one unless you are trading both. Re-sign Pavelski and Setoguchi. Keep Clowe. Pursue FA addition at forward, add legit #3/4 d-man. Hand Greiss the reins, acquire a young goalie, or sign a temp until one of the prospects can take over. Improve depth (i.e solid #5 d-man, and some improvements on the third line).

Option 2: Keep them all.
-Marleau, long term at discount (6 mill cap hit). Pavelski mid-term at fair rate (3.5 mill). Setoguchi short-term, minimize cap hit (3 mill). Blake returns in a bottom pairing role, at bargain (1 mill). Nichol (.85), Ortmeyer (.6), receive minimal raises. Malhorta gets minor one, maybe at the sacrifice of length (1.3; 4 years). If impossible, Couture has earned his spot and also has a 1.3 mill cap hit. Also, I did not include Mitchell in this line-up, so that spot could easily be his. Huskins dumped in minors, waived, traded with solid prospect for **** prospect. Could also be in place of Blake as our #4 d-man. Yikes! Nabby returns at 5 million. Finalize roster with McGinn, Ferrerio, McLaren, Demers, Moore, and 2 500k players. Total: 56.5 million.
  • Note: Defense of Boyle-Vlasic-Murray-Blake-Demers-Moore is going to be a problem.
  • Note 2: That is a lot of rookies.
  • Note 3: What happens if the cap goes down?

Option 3: Promote McGinn/Ferrerio/Malhorta to top 6. Move out current top 6 forward (they will all have $3mill+ cap hits) for a top 4 d-man.
-Roughly the same as above, but with a weaker 2nd line and improved defense.

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Old
02-28-2010, 07:27 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by gregpalm76 View Post
Not sure about that. Seto's numbers are pretty horrendous this year and have taken a major drop-off. So he stopped playing on the first line with Thornton. Doesn't really justify the numbers nonetheless. Clowe is perhaps on pace for a career season if he can get it going on that third line.
I'm glad Clowe's on a career pace but it really doesn't matter because he's not playing the way they need him to play for the line to succeed and that's more important and why he got put on the 3rd line in the first place. He doesn't play quickly and it hurts the team more than it helps. All Seto needs to do is shoot the puck more and he'll be fine.

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Old
02-28-2010, 07:31 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I'm glad Clowe's on a career pace but it really doesn't matter because he's not playing the way they need him to play for the line to succeed and that's more important and why he got put on the 3rd line in the first place. He doesn't play quickly and it hurts the team more than it helps. All Seto needs to do is shoot the puck more and he'll be fine.
At the same time, removing Clowe from the team removes any shred of physicality from our top six. Obviously, our top six can be very, very physical when it wants to be, but Clowe is the only one who consistently takes the body along the side-boards and does a pretty decent job of creating chances out of it.

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Old
02-28-2010, 07:36 PM
  #38
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At the same time, removing Clowe from the team removes any shred of physicality from our top six. Obviously, our top six can be very, very physical when it wants to be, but Clowe is the only one who consistently takes the body along the side-boards and does a pretty decent job of creating chances out of it.
I dunno. I agree that Clowe is clearly the most physical of our Top 6.

However, Seto can be very physical; he usually scores the most when he's the most physical.

And I was surprised at how physical Patty was in the Olympics. I saw him throwing the body like I've never seen.

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02-28-2010, 07:36 PM
  #39
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I'm glad Clowe's on a career pace but it really doesn't matter because he's not playing the way they need him to play for the line to succeed and that's more important and why he got put on the 3rd line in the first place. He doesn't play quickly and it hurts the team more than it helps. All Seto needs to do is shoot the puck more and he'll be fine.
Well, we'll see how it pans out down the stretch. I agree, Clowe's contract warrants second line minutes but so do some players on Chicago and they're playing 3rd/4th line minutes. Spread the scoring out to three lines if need be. Seto still has to prove himself as a consistent scorer, too.

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02-28-2010, 10:03 PM
  #40
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so what do you guys think about trading seto in the offseason??? for what type of package?

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02-28-2010, 10:19 PM
  #41
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Note that the olympic roster freeze lifts in about 40 minutes (at which point it will officially be March 1st back east). It'd certainly suck if some Olympian gets traded while he's on the plane back to whatever city his team is playing in next.

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02-28-2010, 10:26 PM
  #42
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Note that the olympic roster freeze lifts in about 40 minutes (at which point it will officially be March 1st back east). It'd certainly suck if some Olympian gets traded while he's on the plane back to whatever city his team is playing in next.
what I wonder is if they'll announce tonight or start holding press conferences tomorrow.

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02-28-2010, 10:32 PM
  #43
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let the deadline fun begin!!


PS - i think it'll be quiet for the sharks. No major deals or comings/goings until the off season.

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02-28-2010, 11:09 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Blades of Glory View Post
At the same time, removing Clowe from the team removes any shred of physicality from our top six. Obviously, our top six can be very, very physical when it wants to be, but Clowe is the only one who consistently takes the body along the side-boards and does a pretty decent job of creating chances out of it.
I disagree with that. I think Setoguchi's made more big hits than Clowe who has outhit Seto by a fair margin. Thornton is at the same level in terms of frequency with Seto. The top six doesn't necessarily have to be physical. They just need to not be pushed around out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregpalm76 View Post
Well, we'll see how it pans out down the stretch. I agree, Clowe's contract warrants second line minutes but so do some players on Chicago and they're playing 3rd/4th line minutes. Spread the scoring out to three lines if need be. Seto still has to prove himself as a consistent scorer, too.
The problem though in Chicago is that that strategy will be short-lived. They're not going to have the same forward depth next year because they will have to move at least one more high-price forward. Maybe two. Besides, our third line doesn't need to be another scoring line. I prefer it the way it is. An energy line that hits a lot, forechecks relentlessly, and every now and then creates a scoring chance. I prefer their primary function to be creating energy as opposed to being a scoring line.

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so what do you guys think about trading seto in the offseason??? for what type of package?
If it's not a legitimate top four at or near his age, I really wouldn't be interested in moving him yet. Yeah he's still got to develop consistency but he's still young and until there's some certainty with Patrick Marleau, there's no sense in moving him.

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Old
02-28-2010, 11:18 PM
  #45
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If we're looking to trade Seto in the offseason, I'd want to go for Burns or Suter - the latter would probably take a bit more.

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02-28-2010, 11:36 PM
  #46
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Trade freeze ended 30+ minutes ago.

Information needs to be faxed to NHL office, assets checked (does the team have the players, draft picks they are offering), cap impact.

Then the trade call happens.


Then it's official. (But there may be leaks starting when info is faxed.)

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02-28-2010, 11:37 PM
  #47
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The problem though in Chicago is that that strategy will be short-lived. They're not going to have the same forward depth next year because they will have to move at least one more high-price forward. Maybe two. Besides, our third line doesn't need to be another scoring line. I prefer it the way it is. An energy line that hits a lot, forechecks relentlessly, and every now and then creates a scoring chance. I prefer their primary function to be creating energy as opposed to being a scoring line.
Well, then I see why you want to move Clowe, in a way. Because as of now, our second line of Seto and Pavs isn't cutting it at the moment. Seto has yet to prove himself, Malhotra is a borderline 2nd liner, and Pavs hasn't cemented himself as a consistent scorer although is closer than the rest.

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02-28-2010, 11:48 PM
  #48
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FWIW Eklund tweeted that he's heard indirectly from a player who said he's been traded; announcement likely in the morning.

(Time to open your thread, Nem?)

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03-01-2010, 12:00 AM
  #49
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Yes, let's trade Clowe, the guy who fights, scores, makes plays, goes into the corners, is strong on the boards, and has more heart than most of the guys on the team.
This man speaks the truth. Stick around.

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03-01-2010, 12:01 AM
  #50
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I like chocolate milk. Make sense much?
You ever have strawberry milk? **** is nasty.

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