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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

The Sad State of Finnish Hockey

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Old
02-27-2010, 03:09 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Lepardi View Post
Jussi Jokinen will turn 27 in April. The fact that he's considered "young" says more about Finland's age structure than it does about Jokinen's age.

And if you want younger players in the team, could you give a few examples of players under 25 that you think could have been effective in Vancouver? I sure can't think of anyone, and that's not Jukka Jalonen's fault.
Nokelainen and Ilkka Heikkinen as the 6th defenseman.

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02-27-2010, 03:42 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by asakuj View Post
Nokelainen and Ilkka Heikkinen as the 6th defenseman.
Would you drop Lepistö or Niskala to make room for Heikkinen? Lepistö is actually a month older than Heikkinen, so that exchange would really make our team younger

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02-27-2010, 04:59 PM
  #103
Faltorvo
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No offense boys, but ya better get a medal here. Looking at whats coming down the pipes for future difference makers on a team, it looks bleak.

There really is no new up and comers that are going to replace Koiv,Sel,Joik.

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02-27-2010, 05:05 PM
  #104
MS
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It's hard to say.

Finland has had a rough past 5 years in terms of talent development.

It does need to be noted, though, that their 1992-born group is the best they've produced in nearly a decade, and Granlund is a point-per-game player in the SM-Liiga at age 17, something no-one has come close to doing since Koivu in 1993. He certainly looks like an elite talent to build around.

The bigger question right now is why so many promising players over the past few years have not achieved what they should have at the NHL level. Pitkanen and Lehtonen have been disappointments after looking like franchise talents as teenagers. Rita busted completely. So did Tukonen. Tuomo Ruutu never became the player it looked like he would be, either.

If a couple of those guys had developed into the elite-level players they'd been billed as, Finland's problems wouldn't look nearly so bad.

Finland will still ice a good forward group (M. Koivu, Ruutu, Jokinen, Filppula, Hagman, probably Granlund) in Sochi, and have all kinds of high-end goaltending options. Their big problem is on the blueline. Salo, Lydman, Timonen are all going to be pushing 40 by those games, and you're going to be left with the inconsistent Pitkanen and after that ... Sami Lepisto is the only other NHL-calibre rearguard under the age of 32 right now.


Last edited by MS: 02-27-2010 at 05:11 PM.
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Old
02-27-2010, 05:31 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Granlund is a point-per-game player in the SM-Liiga at age 17, something no-one has come close to doing since Koivu in 1993.
You're completely wrong.

Saku Koivu turned 18 in November 1992.
Saku Koivu's stats in 1992-1993: 46 GP 3 G 7 A 10 P

Olli Jokinen turned 18 in December 1996.
Olli Jokinen's stats in 1996-1997: 50 GP 14 G 27 A 41 P

Mikael Granlund turned 18 this Friday.
Mikael Granlund's stats for 2009-2010: 35 GP 9 G 24 A 33 P

Considering that SM-liiga was a better league 13 years ago, Granlund's stats are pretty much comparable with Jokinen's. Koivu didn't get to play much at that age, because TPS had such a strong roster. He still played for Finland in the world championships in Germany in 1993, even though he had only scored 10 points in SM-liiga. So Pentti Matikainen certainly saw some hidden potential there.


Last edited by Lepardi: 02-27-2010 at 05:39 PM.
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02-27-2010, 07:37 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Dick Justice View Post
But much unlike USA, there is no young talent to refill the team.
Exactly. There aren't any truly great talents for defence or offence, only goalkeepers. If things stay like this, the situation will just get worse and soon we're level with the likes of Germany/Norway, if not already.

Future is looking dark and our national team will be a laughing stock (maybe we already are), unless we can fix our problems in youth system like Sweden did. We have the resources to do it, but is there enough will?


Last edited by Jakuchu: 02-27-2010 at 07:44 PM.
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02-27-2010, 08:12 PM
  #107
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What kind of system is there for developing your 15 - 20 year old players?. One problem I see for your country is having your best talent (Rajala types) leave for other countries programs. There have been studies done about other countries (CzechRepulbic and Slovakia) where there programs suffered after years of the top players leaving the system so they had nothing to work with, meanwhile Canada's system seemed to get stronger. Even today Czech Republic and Slovakia have a lack of young players coming up.

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02-27-2010, 08:41 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by asakuj View Post
Team Finland needs to play the greece type game from now on in Football. Just 100% defense and atleast make meeting Finland a pain in the ass for the big countries..
Somehow Roy Hodgson made that work. Finland had one of the best defences in the Euro 08 qualifiers. And I'm not talking about names. Baxter's style is "sexier" but the only good results were the draws against Germany.

But sadly, it doesn't look good for our football either. It will be cool playing against Sweden in the next qualifiers though. And Hungary

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02-28-2010, 02:22 AM
  #109
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Finland, as well as the Czech Republic, should get a program like the USNTDP pronto. For whatever reasons, their current systems aren't working and in the time it'll take to diagnose and fix those problems at a national level, Finland will lose another decade's worth of potential players.

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02-28-2010, 02:23 AM
  #110
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Finland won the bronze they are not in a sad state.

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02-28-2010, 02:30 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by HenrikSedinFan View Post
Finland won the bronze they are not in a sad state.
The development of future players is in sad state. Thus, Finnish hockey is in sad state because it is more than the international team in one tournament.


Last edited by wirelessflyingcord: 02-28-2010 at 02:41 AM.
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02-28-2010, 02:36 AM
  #112
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finland can maybe squeeze a medal or two in next couple of years, but after that i predict many lean years. i am not at all convinced the powers that be will react fast enough to correct the situation before it's too late.

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02-28-2010, 02:57 AM
  #113
teurasjate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Justice View Post
The development of future players is in sad state. Thus, Finnish hockey is in sad state because it is more than the international team in one tournament.
not to mention that the finnish league is not as competitive as it used to be. there's is more than mens national teams success

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02-28-2010, 03:41 AM
  #114
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Well, Finnish fans tend to over react. We certainly are facing some challenges, but I would say that so far nothing dramatic is happening. We have constantly been seen as over performing our potential in the top tournaments and that has been for the simple reason that our potential has not been (pretty much ever) up to the real 2-3 top nations. And that will be the case in the future as well. Our junior system has clearly issues, and particularly one wonders why we produce so many excellent work horses and so few top players, but I'm sure that we'll see at least some progress here. These things take time.

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02-28-2010, 05:58 AM
  #115
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Well i think we have some nice forwards coming in to replace Teemu and Saku etc, but as for the defense i have huge conserns... we have pretty much no one else NHL caliber D than Vatanen and he isnt specialist in own end... Finland lacks solid defensive d's.

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02-28-2010, 07:25 AM
  #116
Lapa
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Originally Posted by 4rde View Post
Well i think we have some nice forwards coming in to replace Teemu and Saku etc, but as for the defense i have huge conserns... we have pretty much no one else NHL caliber D than Vatanen and he isnt specialist in own end... Finland lacks solid defensive d's.
How about Aleksi Laakso? Or Juha Uotila?

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02-28-2010, 07:46 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Socialist View Post
And Hungary
That game in 1997 scarred me for life, thanks for reminding

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02-28-2010, 08:07 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Lapa View Post
How about Aleksi Laakso? Or Juha Uotila?
We do have quite a few of these borderline prospects, who could develop surprisingly well. However, for the guys you mentioned, Uotila is 25 this year and even though I don't know much of Laakso, he seems to be in the same line of serviceable prospects in SM-liiga, but lacking the tools to make a fast impact in NA.

As already mentioned, SM-liiga (FEL) and the level of its top players is way lower compared to the level of 90's and early 00's. Same goes for the junior system and the emerging talent isn't groomed properly in the Finnish system.

Because of the lacking depth in FEL, talented juniors are pushed to way too big roles or 4th line roles with limited ice time and time with puck. Finland's 1st rounders in the past decade are a good example of this. Many of them lost crucial time without a leading role with the puck and they didn't have the proper time to "collect all the tools into their toolboxes", so to say.

That is skewing the whole picture and Granlund/Koivu comparison is a good example of that.

Don't get me wrong, Granlund has been impressive, but not ahead of Koivu at that age, even though his numbers are way better.

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Old
02-28-2010, 08:19 AM
  #119
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The problem with defensive defensemen is an obvious one, but not necessarily a crippling one. Salo was horrible in these games, so replacing him with someone in 4 years does not sound impossible...guys like Heikkinen may have progressed enough in that 4 years to actually play better than Salo did this time.

We have never had good goal scoring, and right now we have 2 decent prospects who are supposed to be just that, Pulkkinen and Elo. From what I have heard, Pulkkinen will be good at that, and Elo has already shown he has an insane scoring touch for a Finn. All he needs is strength and speed that comes with it.

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02-28-2010, 09:36 AM
  #120
BladesofSTEELwFIRE
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LOL....this thread is pretty funny. The OP laments about the sad state of Finnish hockey and how they are NOT a top 5 hockey country and they end up with the bronze medal!!

Talk about ownage!!

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Old
02-28-2010, 09:52 AM
  #121
Tony Piscotta
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Originally Posted by AngeFIN View Post
There will be 2-3 new Selannes trained by Teemu in 10 years Eetu, Eemil and Leevi. They all play the RW position and all use the right side stick like Teemu.
Will they be playing for Finland or Team USA???

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02-28-2010, 09:55 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by BladesofSTEELwFIRE View Post
LOL....this thread is pretty funny. The OP laments about the sad state of Finnish hockey and how they are NOT a top 5 hockey country and they end up with the bronze medal!!

Talk about ownage!!
Way to miss the topic of the thread.

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Old
02-28-2010, 10:03 AM
  #123
Tony Piscotta
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Originally Posted by FinRuutu View Post
That causes all players to have so little icetime that evolving is harder and for that reason there is less talent to be found. It has been said for numerous people that Nuori Suomi is the cancer of Finnish hockey and it definetly is true.
Heard this when I was there and Joe Micheletti made same criticism of Jalonen during the bronze medal game last night on American TV - claiming that he should have been given more time to his top players rather than essentially rolling four lines throughout the tournament.

However, I don't know if I buy this argument completely. In the third period Finland steam rolled Slovakia with all four lines rolling. Could it be that the Slovaks were fatigued after relying on a core group of players rather than utilizing their entire lineup?

I realize that these are two separate issues (Nuori Suomi vs. playing all players equally), but I think having more players get more touches of the puck and ice time might not be a bad thing.

Just food for thought.

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02-28-2010, 10:08 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Tony Piscotta View Post
Will they be playing for Finland or Team USA???
Blasphemy!

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Old
02-28-2010, 10:18 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Tony Piscotta View Post
Will they be playing for Finland or Team USA???
Well, duh. Teemu will come back to Finland with his family when his career is over.

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