HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Team Russia: Too many KHLers?

View Poll Results: Did Team Russia have too many KHL Lifers in their lineup to win gold?
Yes 65 55.08%
No 53 44.92%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-28-2010, 01:26 PM
  #26
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Houston, Tx
Country: United States
Posts: 7,942
vCash: 500
Does anyone know how Russian's are taking it? Is there disappointment in Russia? I can't imagine what it would be like if we lost, I just know how much Euro's value the Olympics, so I'm guessing that there should be a lot of fall out back home but unfortunately North American media could care less about.

macavoy is offline  
Old
02-28-2010, 02:11 PM
  #27
torero
Registered User
 
torero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Border of lake Leman
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 4,033
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Absolutely.

The best players in the world play in the NHL. Some over there are NHL-caliber. Russia brought some that weren't.

Their motivations for that are 100% political, as they were in 2006.
Zinoviev, Zaripov, Morozov, Radulov ... do these names mean something to you ?

Politics has nothing to do with that anymore ... get over it. They became WC with about the same team. Stop assimilating Russian with politics.

In my view they missed this very competitive Olympic tournament because they were overconfident after having won repeatedly the WC ! Having the players they have, they banked on playing the game these champs know. And it worked in the past WC's.

in other words they had a superiority complex.

I guess that the loss vs Canada will serve them as a lesson.

torero is offline  
Old
02-28-2010, 04:33 PM
  #28
TheGoldenJet
Registered User
 
TheGoldenJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
That and the fact that they went with the wrong goaltender (which suggest they also went with the wrong coach).
Wrong goaltender.

A failed powerplay when it should have been one of the best in history.

Ignorance of how their best NHL stars are to be utilized.

Shootout selections: leaving Kozlov who plays for him on the bench in the shootout.

Yes, I agree with the bad coaching sentiments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daikan View Post
Indeed. I actually thought Radulov was one of Russia's best forwards. Coaching was a big problem, as was defense (though that mostly stems from bad coaching).
Radulov is not what I would call a KHL lifer. Perhaps you need to read the question more carefully.

TheGoldenJet is offline  
Old
02-28-2010, 04:37 PM
  #29
daikan
(╯︵╰,)
 
daikan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Berlin
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,535
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet View Post
Radulov is not what I would call a KHL lifer. Perhaps you need to read the question more carefully.
Well it looks like he'll play most of his career in the KHL. Anyway, I didn't bring him up, so I don't know what you're quoting me for. Besides, I didn't vote in the poll, I commented on the topic, which says 'Too many KHLers?'.

daikan is offline  
Old
02-28-2010, 04:40 PM
  #30
BillyShoe1721
Terriers
 
BillyShoe1721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,248
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to BillyShoe1721
Radulov was okay, but guys like Zinoviev, Zaripov shouldn't have been there, especially considering Kovalev, Frolov, and Kulemin were sitting at home.

BillyShoe1721 is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 12:54 AM
  #31
dimi19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhog27 View Post
It's possible. Someone broke it down, but I believe all the goals scored by Canada were against KHL lines and defenseman.

As for the marginal NHL players they are actually very talents guys. Alexei Kovalev has been huge for Russia in past olympics and is a point per game player in the NHL playoffs. He also was parto f a great powerplay for Montreal in which he played with Markov. He may have improved the PP. Frolov is a good young player who might have made a difference.

Overall it's hard to say if they would have made a difference, but I think that it's very possible. It's all in hindsight though.
YESSS finally, thank you, you def echo my thoughts exactly, the powerplay of team russia was horrible, having kovy on the half boards RW would have made a huge difference, esp with his chemistry with markov on the point, and also since they did decide to put like 50 percent khlers, they omit the one true khler who was imperative ZUBOV, seryozha blyat'

dimi19 is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 12:56 AM
  #32
dimi19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AugerLovesBurrows View Post
I didn't think any of the KHLers were worse in their roles than the NHL players were in theirs.



Ponikarovsky is Ukrainian.
he is... but nabokov is from kazakstan, i think there's some rules that allow players to play for russia if they were born in one of the republics, im not exactly sure how it works

dimi19 is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 12:57 AM
  #33
KaylaJ
i bent my wookie
 
KaylaJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: hell
Country: United States
Posts: 18,289
vCash: 500
i think they had a few other deeper seeded problems that led to their destruction no matter what league a few played for.

ps, if larionov is not involved in the hockey team for sochi, i'll be kinda shocked.

KaylaJ is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 12:58 AM
  #34
dimi19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Alexander Frolov would have helped as well.

Sending out whole lines of non-NHL players to get eaten alive by Canadians is ********. The Russians should have had Kovalev, Kulemin and Kovalev.
absolutely, i completely agree, kovalev has been nothing but clutch in playoff games, he has a lot of experience playing in pressure games, he's an nhl veteral who could have really had a positive influence on the young guns like ovy, kovalchuk, malkin, semin, etc, plus we coulda really used kovalev on the PP and the shootout

dimi19 is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 01:01 AM
  #35
dimi19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 467
vCash: 500
coaching was a problem as well, absolutely, they shoulda put tarasova behind the bench, look at how much success she has with figure skating,

dimi19 is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 02:26 PM
  #36
jekoh
Registered User
 
jekoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi19 View Post
he is... but nabokov is from kazakstan, i think there's some rules that allow players to play for russia if they were born in one of the republics, im not exactly sure how it works
There is no such rule.

jekoh is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 02:46 PM
  #37
LadyJet26
BACK TO BACK CHAMPS!
 
LadyJet26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,129
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi19 View Post
he is... but nabokov is from kazakstan, i think there's some rules that allow players to play for russia if they were born in one of the republics, im not exactly sure how it works
Back after the USSR split up players could choose to play for Russia if they so chose, still can. IE, Kaspiritus, Zherdev. But Ponikarovsky is Ukrainian and has Canadian citizenship and has never played for Russia.

LadyJet26 is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 03:21 PM
  #38
jekoh
Registered User
 
jekoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseHunter View Post
Back after the USSR split up players could choose to play for Russia if they so chose, still can. IE, Kaspiritus, Zherdev. But Ponikarovsky is Ukrainian and has Canadian citizenship and has never played for Russia.
You probably mean Zhitnik, not Zherdev, who never played for the USSR and therefore did not need any rule regarding countries breaking up.

jekoh is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 04:03 PM
  #39
Anomandaris
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 62
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
They didn't play as a team and not just for the Canada game. Their top two lines were likely the most talented in the games. They should have come at us like the Globe Trotters.
They never play as a team, that's their whole problem. And yes too many KHL'ers on that team. It's not why they lost but if there were more NHL caliber players maybe they could have picked up the slack till the stars got going. Russian arrogance insisted that the KHL was comparable to the NHL and they sought to prove that and it totally blew up in their faces.

Anomandaris is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 04:12 PM
  #40
Sergei Makarov
Registered User
 
Sergei Makarov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Saint Petersburg
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 243
vCash: 500
A little fact:

Goals scored by Russia: 16

Goals by NHLers: 9

Goals by KHLers: 7

Neither player from the KHL played in the Top 6.

We needed more players from the KHL. With Zherdev, Mozyakin, Tereshenko, Yashin and Sushinski things would have been very different.

Sergei Makarov is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 04:16 PM
  #41
Sojourn
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 41,188
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHockeyFan View Post
If the NHLers had shown up, then maybe I could have blamed the KHLers. Besides, I'm glad Canada won....nothing against Ovie, but nice to see him humbled a little like that.
Ditto. Seems hard to fault the KHL players when the NHL players didn't show up.

I just thought Russia was flawed from the start. Outstanding offensive potential(which never seemed to get going) but not particularly strong in other areas. Their defense was lacking. Their goaltending never really put together consistently strong performances. And they seemed too loose to try to take advantage of their offensive ability.

Canada was smart against them. Weber, Niedermayer, Richards, Toews, and Nash were put out there with the sole purpose of shutting down their best line. That, by itself, was no surprise. What was surprising was that Russia seemed willing to accept that match-up. Once their top line was contained(and let's face it, Russia's top line didn't seem to really battle to overcome it) they were suddenly a much weaker team.

That screams a lack of depth, and it screams a lack of heart. Thus, a flawed line-up.

Sojourn is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 04:34 PM
  #42
Jeff Babchuk
Registered User
 
Jeff Babchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: within my bubble
Posts: 1,168
vCash: 500
Kovalev? Are you serious?
You know those NHL-games where Kovalev is practically invisible, and basically all he does is circle around a bit?
Maybe throw a shot or two on net, if the puck happens to fall onto his blade.
Well, that's about how he's been playing when on team Russia.
Only more so.

Yeah - he would have totally saved the Russians... rrright.

Jeff Babchuk is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 04:47 PM
  #43
MaxV
Registered User
 
MaxV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York, NY
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 3,062
vCash: 500
I'm not really sure it was the number of KHLers that was taken as much as the type of KHLers that were taken.

Morozov looked too slow, Zaripov isn't very comfortable playing on small ice, both Kozlov and Fedorov are past their prime.

Hindsight is 20/20, but perhaps it would've been wiser to take more defensive-minded forwards for the bottom 2 lines. Guys like Kulemin, Frolov, Tereschenko, Saprykin, etc might have made a difference, although I would say Russia would still be an underdog vs. Canada with those players.

As far as defensemen, I can't really fault them for taking Nikulin, Kalinin or Korneev since there weren't any NHL options here (Kulikov is too young). Maybe they could've taken Artyukhin as a D-man, but you are making a big assumption there.

As far as Zubov, well I guess he should've been there, but I'm not sure how much of a difference he would've made.

MaxV is online now  
Old
03-01-2010, 05:32 PM
  #44
champs83
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hockeyvillage, NH
Country: Eritrea
Posts: 124
vCash: 500
Guys, they lost 7-3 to the Canadians to get eliminated. Would Sergei Samsonov and Evgeni Artyukin have made up the 4 goal difference?

The team may have been built with political overtones, but no major NHL talents were left off the rosters. There's only 32 NHL active Russian-born players anyway (http://www.nhl.com/ice/playersearch....0082009&bc=RUS)

champs83 is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 05:48 PM
  #45
couris
Registered User
 
couris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,987
vCash: 500
No, Canada was far superior. Men against kids.

couris is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 08:30 PM
  #46
dimi19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craah View Post
Kovalev? Are you serious?
You know those NHL-games where Kovalev is practically invisible, and basically all he does is circle around a bit?
Maybe throw a shot or two on net, if the puck happens to fall onto his blade.
Well, that's about how he's been playing when on team Russia.
Only more so.

Yeah - he would have totally saved the Russians... rrright.
u obviously don't know much about kovalev or hockey to say something like that, if u actually followed kovalev through out his career you'd know that he always shows up and plays his best during important games such as playoffs or big games during the season, he is very clutch, he is a true leader, he would have helped team russia a lot

dimi19 is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 08:32 PM
  #47
I Hate Chris Butler
Backlund Fan Club
 
I Hate Chris Butler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Saskatchewan
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,749
vCash: 330
I voted no. What they had too much of were ****** defensemen and coaches who didn't know how to coach.

I Hate Chris Butler is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 08:37 PM
  #48
dystemper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 988
vCash: 500
one russian hockey source put it best after the game. i'm paraphrasing:

"your generals have to also be your foot soldiers."

referring to ovechkin, semin, kovalchuk and others needing to get their noses dirty and work harder rather than waiting for those outlet passes.

dystemper is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 08:41 PM
  #49
Rysto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The badlands
Posts: 2,436
vCash: 500
Yes and no. Do I believe that the Russians lost because they didn't have enough NHL players on their roster? Absolutely. But the problem for the Russians is that they just don't have enough NHL players to choose from. Russia would be far better served to have players like Nikulin taking regular shifts in the NHL where they'd get a chance to play against the best players in the world.

Rysto is offline  
Old
03-01-2010, 10:21 PM
  #50
MaxV
Registered User
 
MaxV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York, NY
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 3,062
vCash: 500
Guys,

Once again, it wasn't the number of KHLers that they took, it was the TYPE OF KHLers.

Look at their forwards:

Morozov - slow scorer, with zero defensive ability.
Zaripov - small scorer, who isn't very comfortable playing on small ice.
Zinoviev - similar to Zaripov.
Fedorov - too old, too slow.
Kozlov - ain't much younger or faster then Fedorov.

These players were not a good compliment to the other Star forwards on this team.

This team already had scorers, what it needed was some "Universal players" that may not be stars but could help Stars by covering for them in the defensive zone and doing the dirty work along the boards and in front of the net.

Players such as Frolov, Kulemin, Saprykin, Tereschenko, among others come to mind.


On defense the situation is similar. What is the point of bringing a PP specialist like Grebeshkov, if you don't even use him on PP? Russia's defensive corps was WAY too offensive-minded. The defensive pairings were very unbalanced.

They only had one true stay-at-home D-man (Volchenkov). I'm not saying that Russia is rich with defensemen, but I think there are blueliners that are more responsible defensively then the players that they brought. Players such as Proshkin, Denisov, V. Vishnevskiy, Atyushov are smart positionally and might have played more physical.

I mean, I'm not saying all of these changes would've won the game againt Canada for us, but I definetely think there is a team that Russia could put together that could've presented a serious challenge to this Canada squad.

MaxV is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.