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Buffalo proposal for Ovechkin

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Old
04-29-2004, 10:00 AM
  #26
CelticSabre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Philly did in the Lindros trade. Craig Patrick is on record saying Ovechkin is the best prospect since Lemieux. I didn't offer enough for Ovechkin.

Forsberg
Ricci
Hextall
Simon
Huffman
Duchesne
2 1st rounders
$15M

I offered:

Satan (negligible trade value because of $5.25M contract)
Briere (65 points, 26 year old)
Afinogenov (31 points, 24 year old)
Kotalik (26 points, 25 year old)
Tallinder (5/6 defenseman, possible 3/4 defenseman, 25 year old)
2004 1st rounder (#13)
2005 1st rounder (protected - if top 5 pick, then 2006 1st rounder instead)

Basically, the Sabres give up two players who were a top 2 line player for Ovechkin. You replace Briere with Ovechkin, and replace Satan with Vanek (which may happen anyway). Afinogenov and Kotalik are 3rd line players, and Tallinder isn't (yet) a top 4 defenseman. I understand why the Caps wouldn't want to do it. I don't understand why the Sabres wouldn't.

Ya and look how the Lindros trade worked out I bet you Bobby Clarke is kicking himself now with Forsberg being what some say as the best forward in the league while healthy...not to mention 2 firsts...and 15 million :lol

Im sorry Ovechkin might be good but damn..Buffalo is close to being done that rebuilding stage and looking good....why would they rip that all apart for some kid who hasnt played in the N.H.L before ??? Alexandre Daigle anyone?? Like come on if the Worlds are any indication of Vanek's talent im am more than happy with our future without throwing some of our core away

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04-29-2004, 10:04 AM
  #27
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One Player cannot win a championship by himself.....the more assets you trade for AO, the more it hurts your team.It's safe to say unless Pittsburgh trades #2,Whitney + or Chicago trades #3,Seabrook+ Ovechkin will be a Washington Capital for sure.

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04-29-2004, 10:29 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerTime
Ya and look how the Lindros trade worked out I bet you Bobby Clarke is kicking himself now with Forsberg being what some say as the best forward in the league while healthy...not to mention 2 firsts...and 15 million :lol

My opinion differs from yours. Lindros, prior to his concussion issues was the best forward in the game. He was a unique set of size, skill, and he played w/ one hell of a mean streak. He was good in the Defensive zone and there were no D men at the time that could handle him. (Anyone remember the Legion of Doom line) they were the best in hockey.

He helped Phili get to the SCF's before he started to have the concussion problems. Clarke doesn't trade Renberg and Lindros doesn't have concussion problems, then I think Phili takes a solid run at the cup for the next few years....

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04-29-2004, 11:08 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Hahaha,I wouldn't trade Vanek and Kalinin for Ovechkin let alone add another 60 point player and picks.Vanek is a potential 40 goal scorer and 80 point player...I don't see AO's potential a lot higher then that and then to add one of the most highly skilled young d-men with incredible potential is just laughable.

You're going to be surprised when you find out that Ovechkin won't be this amazing player that totally dominates the league.I see him more as a Hossa type then a Gretzky type.
Nobody has ever compared him to Gretzky.

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04-29-2004, 11:16 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Satan
Briere
Afinogenov
Kotalik
Tallinder
2004 1st rounder
2005 1st rounder (protected - if top 5 pick, then 2006 1st rounder instead)
The Caps wouldn't do it because Satan is included.

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Old
04-29-2004, 11:22 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
The Caps wouldn't do it because Satan is included.
Agreed. The value of the package is very, very good and exceeds the value of the pick, but the Satan salary cannot be absorbed by the team. Either way, though, the chance that the team will trade the pick is remote. No team is going to offer a deal as good as that one, and the Caps are not going to be offered prospects, which are the only sorts of players they can really afford to add, as good as the one they can draft with the pick. The fact that the Capitals are, for now, interested in a slim payroll restricts a lot of potential trades for the pick.

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04-29-2004, 12:20 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
Agreed. The value of the package is very, very good and exceeds the value of the pick, but the Satan salary cannot be absorbed by the team. Either way, though, the chance that the team will trade the pick is remote. No team is going to offer a deal as good as that one, and the Caps are not going to be offered prospects, which are the only sorts of players they can really afford to add, as good as the one they can draft with the pick. The fact that the Capitals are, for now, interested in a slim payroll restricts a lot of potential trades for the pick.
That's absolutely crazy.

I'm willing to bet that no NHL team would trade Ovechkin for that offer even if Satan came at no cost. It's a horrendous offer... Ovechkin has the potential to be the best player in the game and will most likely make the same impact as Kovalchuk did in his rookie season.

Skill wise, Ovechkin's as good as Kovalchuk... defensively he's much, much, much better and he actally will take the body.

I wouldn't even trade Malkin for Satan, Kalinin, and picks.

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04-29-2004, 12:47 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
That's absolutely crazy. I'm willing to bet that no NHL team would trade Ovechkin for that offer even if Satan came at no cost. It's a horrendous offer... Ovechkin has the potential to be the best player in the game and will most likely make the same impact as Kovalchuk did in his rookie season.

Skill wise, Ovechkin's as good as Kovalchuk... defensively he's much, much, much better and he actally will take the body.

I wouldn't even trade Malkin for Satan, Kalinin, and picks.
If your argument is that the best possible course for the Capitals to take is to keep the pick and draft Ovechkin, then we are in agreement.

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04-29-2004, 12:49 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
That's absolutely crazy.

I'm willing to bet that no NHL team would trade Ovechkin for that offer even if Satan came at no cost. It's a horrendous offer... Ovechkin has the potential to be the best player in the game and will most likely make the same impact as Kovalchuk did in his rookie season.

Skill wise, Ovechkin's as good as Kovalchuk... defensively he's much, much, much better and he actally will take the body.

I wouldn't even trade Malkin for Satan, Kalinin, and picks.

Wow....Can you ship your Crystal Ball over here for a bit...I wouldnt mind betting on whose going to win the cup this year

If you wouldnt trade either of those kids for these packages you are absolutley crazy!! I mean if anything it is ridiculous from a Buffalo standpoint..How do you know how good he will be ?? Do you also know how many goals,assists and points he will get in his first year?? Like come on I know this kid is supposed to be amazing but again one name (Daigle)...imagine if we traded :

2 1st round picks
Satan, Briere, Max, Kotalik
for Daigle back in the day Regier would be hung from a noose out front of the hsbc and you never know if AO could be a bust too...nobody knows

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04-29-2004, 12:53 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by MillerTime
Wow....Can you ship your Crystal Ball over here for a bit...I wouldnt mind betting on whose going to win the cup this year

If you wouldnt trade either of those kids for these packages you are absolutley crazy!! I mean if anything it is ridiculous from a Buffalo standpoint..How do you know how good he will be ?? Do you also know how many goals,assists and points he will get in his first year?? Like come on I know this kid is supposed to be amazing but again one name (Daigle)...imagine if we traded :

2 1st round picks
Satan, Briere, Max, Kotalik
for Daigle back in the day Regier would be hung from a noose out front of the hsbc and you never know if AO could be a bust too...nobody knows
Not a franchise player in the group so Ovehkin stays in washington >> NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH FOR HIM RETRY AGAIN LATER >>

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04-29-2004, 01:15 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGTRAIN
Not a franchise player in the group so Ovehkin stays in washington >> NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH FOR HIM RETRY AGAIN LATER >>
2 1st round picks, Satan, Briere, Afinogenov, and Kotalik isn't a good trade for Washington, but it's not because value is off.

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04-29-2004, 01:17 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerTime
Wow....Can you ship your Crystal Ball over here for a bit...I wouldnt mind betting on whose going to win the cup this year

If you wouldnt trade either of those kids for these packages you are absolutley crazy!! I mean if anything it is ridiculous from a Buffalo standpoint..How do you know how good he will be ?? Do you also know how many goals,assists and points he will get in his first year?? Like come on I know this kid is supposed to be amazing but again one name (Daigle)...imagine if we traded :

2 1st round picks
Satan, Briere, Max, Kotalik
for Daigle back in the day Regier would be hung from a noose out front of the hsbc and you never know if AO could be a bust too...nobody knows
I don't get it... it's taboo to compare him to Mario Lemieux, but you bring up Alexander Daigle.

I heard a Columbus Blue Jackets scout on TV say that Alexander Ovechkin is one of the top 5 hockey players in the world. Not in Russia, not at his age level, not just a top 5 prospect... but a top 5 hockey player in the world.

Take it for what it's worth... as I have.

Ovechkin has nothing in common with Daigle. He's bigger, tougher, he has heart (unlike Daigle), and he has experience against professional hockey players unlike Daigle prior to his draft year.

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04-29-2004, 01:24 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Leafaholix
I don't get it... it's taboo to compare him to Mario Lemieux, but you bring up Alexander Daigle.

I heard a Columbus Blue Jackets scout on TV say that Alexander Ovechkin is one of the top 5 hockey players in the world. Not in Russia, not at his age level, not just a top 5 prospect... but a top 5 hockey player in the world.

Take it for what it's worth... as I have.

Ovechkin has nothing in common with Daigle. He's bigger, tougher, he has heart (unlike Daigle), and he has experience against professional hockey players unlike Daigle prior to his draft year.
DAMN ANOTHER POSTER HAS PAST HOCKEY 101 >> Way to go glad someone else has sense >>>

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04-29-2004, 01:32 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
I don't get it... it's taboo to compare him to Mario Lemieux, but you bring up Alexander Daigle.

I heard a Columbus Blue Jackets scout on TV say that Alexander Ovechkin is one of the top 5 hockey players in the world. Not in Russia, not at his age level, not just a top 5 prospect... but a top 5 hockey player in the world.

Take it for what it's worth... as I have.

Ovechkin has nothing in common with Daigle. He's bigger, tougher, he has heart (unlike Daigle), and he has experience against professional hockey players unlike Daigle prior to his draft year.
I didnt say anything about comparing him to Lemieux...I dont care who you compare him to...Im just saying you dont know how this kid is going to turn out..Scouts say he is one the 5 best players in the world, Well this guy is crazy...Ive seen him play and Ovechkin is an amazing hockey player. But truth be told noone has seen him play in the N.H.L. All im saying is that if you had some crazy offer on the table Washington shouldnt just ignore it becuase of what people say.

Also I never compared Daigle and Ovechkin by size, skill,and whatever else. I just meant that Daigle was touted to be the next Gretzky...a surefire prospect and a surefire Franchise player..For all anyone knows Ovechkin might not be able to handle this tag of "franchise player". I hope he does do awesome but noone knows.

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04-29-2004, 01:58 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerTime
I didnt say anything about comparing him to Lemieux...I dont care who you compare him to...Im just saying you dont know how this kid is going to turn out..Scouts say he is one the 5 best players in the world, Well this guy is crazy...Ive seen him play and Ovechkin is an amazing hockey player. But truth be told noone has seen him play in the N.H.L. All im saying is that if you had some crazy offer on the table Washington shouldnt just ignore it becuase of what people say.

Also I never compared Daigle and Ovechkin by size, skill,and whatever else. I just meant that Daigle was touted to be the next Gretzky...a surefire prospect and a surefire Franchise player..For all anyone knows Ovechkin might not be able to handle this tag of "franchise player". I hope he does do awesome but noone knows.
So because Daigle was a bust, Ovechkin's an iffy prospect?

See:

Eric Lindros - Clearly the #1 overall pick for a couple years prior to draft.
Mats Sundin - Went #1 overall, hall of famer.
Mario Lemieux - Same situation as Lindros and Ovechkin.
Ilya Kovalchuk - Was in a two man race for #1 overall.
Joe Thornton - #1 pick... one of the elite players.
Vincent Lecavalier - Went #1, one of the best young players in the league.
Mike Modano - Another #1 overall pick... amazing career.
Pierre Turgeon - Hall of famer.
Owen Nolan - A top powerforward in the game when he's healthy.

There have only been a couple "busts" over the last 15 draft (Daigle & Stefan)... and they're both still in the NHL, putting up 40-50 points. Chances are that Ovechkin is going to fall under that category (with Sundin, Lindros, Lemieux, etc...).

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04-29-2004, 02:16 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Leafaholix
So because Daigle was a bust, Ovechkin's an iffy prospect?

See:

Eric Lindros - Clearly the #1 overall pick for a couple years prior to draft.
Mats Sundin - Went #1 overall, hall of famer.
Mario Lemieux - Same situation as Lindros and Ovechkin.
Ilya Kovalchuk - Was in a two man race for #1 overall.
Joe Thornton - #1 pick... one of the elite players.
Vincent Lecavalier - Went #1, one of the best young players in the league.
Mike Modano - Another #1 overall pick... amazing career.
Pierre Turgeon - Hall of famer.
Owen Nolan - A top powerforward in the game when he's healthy.

There have only been a couple "busts" over the last 15 draft (Daigle & Stefan)... and they're both still in the NHL, putting up 40-50 points. Chances are that Ovechkin is going to fall under that category (with Sundin, Lindros, Lemieux, etc...).
For such a young fan you display knowlede beyond you years >> Thanks enjoy reading you post >>

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04-29-2004, 02:20 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Nobody has ever compared him to Gretzky.

Well people are comparing him to a total superstar franchise untouchable player,and I just don't see Ovechkin becoming that.

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04-29-2004, 02:26 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Well people are comparing him to a total superstar franchise untouchable player,and I just don't see Ovechkin becoming that.
Well look again >> They said the same thing about Lemieux before he ever played so what is the difference >> Ovehkin is a franchise player so get used to it

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04-29-2004, 02:31 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Well people are comparing him to a total superstar franchise untouchable player,and I just don't see Ovechkin becoming that.
Why not?

People who have been watching him for the last couple years say he's the greatest prospect to ever come out of Russia. That includes Sergei Fedorov and Ilja Kovalchuk.

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04-29-2004, 02:34 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by BIGTRAIN
Well look again >> They said the same thing about Lemieux before he ever played so what is the difference >> Ovehkin is a franchise player so get used to it
You HOPE Ovechkin is a franchise player.

He might be the second coming, but until he proves it in the NHL, he is not a franchise player. Potential, YES. Guaranteed, NO.

I don't think that anyone is saying that Ovechkin is the next Daigle, just that with prospects you never know.

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04-29-2004, 02:36 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
That's absolutely crazy.

I'm willing to bet that no NHL team would trade Ovechkin for that offer even if Satan came at no cost. It's a horrendous offer... Ovechkin has the potential to be the best player in the game and will most likely make the same impact as Kovalchuk did in his rookie season.

Skill wise, Ovechkin's as good as Kovalchuk... defensively he's much, much, much better and he actally will take the body.

I wouldn't even trade Malkin for Satan, Kalinin, and picks.

Because you haven't watched a lot of Sabre games.
And the funny thing is even if AO is a 90 point player,he will be surpassed by Satan and Afinogenov in scoring.Ovechkin won't win a cup by himself either.Ovechkin is so overrated around here it's not even funny.He's a good,possibly great player but the way most people talk about him he is a Bobby Orr,Gordie Howe,Maurice Richard and Wayne Gretzky into one player.

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04-29-2004, 02:38 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
You HOPE Ovechkin is a franchise player.

He might be the second coming, but until he proves it in the NHL, he is not a franchise player. Potential, YES. Guaranteed, NO.

I don't think that anyone is saying that Ovechkin is the next Daigle, just that with prospects you never know.
With some prospect you are right but Ovehkin is a cannot miss >> He will be everything advertised and more and I for one do not care what others may think but we have and you do not end of story >>>>

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04-29-2004, 02:38 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Because you haven't watched a lot of Sabre games.
And the funny thing is even if AO is a 90 point player,he will be surpassed by Satan and Afinogenov in scoring.Ovechkin won't win a cup by himself either.Ovechkin is so overrated around here it's not even funny.He's a good,possibly great player but the way most people talk about him he is a Bobby Orr,Gordie Howe,Maurice Richard and Wayne Gretzky into one player.
Once again, QUALITY OVER QUANTITY.

Most fans would rather have a 90-100 point player then two guys who'll put up 60 and 40 points.

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04-29-2004, 02:39 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGTRAIN
Well look again >> They said the same thing about Lemieux before he ever played so what is the difference >> Ovehkin is a franchise player so get used to it
Alright>>I'll get used to it>>Ovechkin is god>>



You're talking like Ovechkin is an already proven player,which he isn't.

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04-29-2004, 02:41 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Once again, QUALITY OVER QUANTITY.

99.9% of fans would rather have a 90-100 point player then two guys who'll put up 60 and 40 points.

I wouldn't.The 100 point player financially will want mega bucks and it would be cheaper to have the 2.And it is also easier to contain one guy then 2.

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