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Old
04-25-2004, 03:57 AM
  #1
KING
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A 'clou' For Blueshirts

http://nypost.com/sports/19569.htm

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04-25-2004, 04:06 AM
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I just can't see it happening.

I love Clouts though, he was a huge favourite of mine, and I carried on following his career when he left. I think he's a good goalie who gets an awful lot of stick from Vancouver fans when it's not always THAT justified. He seems a whipping boy to them, even when he was getting very little goal support from their 'big stars', it was always Cloutier's fault. He put up good numbers this year. After that huge blow-out v's the Avs, he came back strong for the rest of the regular season, and looked solid to start the playoffs. It's a shame he got hurt.

Actually, that's another problem, Clouts does have some injury issues each year.

I quite like the idea of a McLennan - Hedberg combo next season tbh, while we wait on Blackburn and Lundqvist.

I like the idea of Clouts as a Ranger again, I love players who play with fight (literally in Clouts' case ) and passion. But I just can't see it happening.

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04-25-2004, 09:52 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Post: Larry Brooks
Let's see, down to eight teams, probably all in the Top 10 of league payrolls, right? What? Montreal went into the season with the 14th-highest payroll, Calgary with the 19th, San Jose with the 20th and Tampa Bay with the 21st? Hmm, well don't worry; a hard cap will allow everyone to compete.
Now there's a quote that'll make you think

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04-25-2004, 11:15 AM
  #4
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Jason Muzzatti will play again for the Rangers before Dunham ever gets back in their nets.
By the way, Muzzati is tending the nets for the Italian National Team.

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04-25-2004, 11:16 AM
  #5
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well, toronto, detroit, and colorado have to have 3 of the higher payrolls in the league. detroit had a higher payroll than we did for most of the season.

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04-25-2004, 12:15 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by kickice
I just can't see it happening.

I love Clouts though, he was a huge favourite of mine, and I carried on following his career when he left. I think he's a good goalie who gets an awful lot of stick from Vancouver fans when it's not always THAT justified. He seems a whipping boy to them, even when he was getting very little goal support from their 'big stars', it was always Cloutier's fault. He put up good numbers this year. After that huge blow-out v's the Avs, he came back strong for the rest of the regular season, and looked solid to start the playoffs. It's a shame he got hurt.

Actually, that's another problem, Clouts does have some injury issues each year.

I quite like the idea of a McLennan - Hedberg combo next season tbh, while we wait on Blackburn and Lundqvist.

I like the idea of Clouts as a Ranger again, I love players who play with fight (literally in Clouts' case ) and passion. But I just can't see it happening.
the game no ranger fan can forget is when nyi played nyr cloutier skated down ice while salo jumped in a fight between 2 guys cloutier grabbed salo and threw him a beating it was great salo sat down on the ice tried to cover himself while cloutier was picking him and dragging him on the ice while throwing punches. would love to see him back in ny why good energy and pretty good goaltender also. hard work ethic is what we need.. wouldnt mind seeing hedberg here either, but i also say all the time i want to see valiquette get a real shot think the kid can make a name for himself. he will and can be an nhl goaltender give him a shot i want him to get it. dont want mclennon showed nothing to me while here . yeah we had not great d but he looked like crap still thats my opinion

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04-25-2004, 12:32 PM
  #7
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I'd love to have Danny Clouts back, but I don't see it happening. Clouts was not the problem in Vancouver this year. He's had his playoff problems, but many considered him Van's MVP this year and he was playing well up until the injury. I think Van keeps Clouts and lets Hedberg walk to go with Clouts and Auld next year.

As for our goalie situation, I'd like to see Dunham gone (I don't care how) and McLennan or a similar ver back-up brought in. Then have Lundqvist and Blackburn battle it out in camp. The winner gets 35-45 starts in the NHL, the loser shoulders the load for Hartford. LaBarbera gets dumped for a mid-late round pick to any team that wants to take a shot on him. It wouldn't be fair to him to go from AHL MVP to AHL back-up/ECHL starter.

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04-25-2004, 12:46 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Kodiak
I'd love to have Danny Clouts back, but I don't see it happening. Clouts was not the problem in Vancouver this year. He's had his playoff problems, but many considered him Van's MVP this year and he was playing well up until the injury. I think Van keeps Clouts and lets Hedberg walk to go with Clouts and Auld next year.

As for our goalie situation, I'd like to see Dunham gone (I don't care how) and McLennan or a similar ver back-up brought in. Then have Lundqvist and Blackburn battle it out in camp. The winner gets 35-45 starts in the NHL, the loser shoulders the load for Hartford. LaBarbera gets dumped for a mid-late round pick to any team that wants to take a shot on him. It wouldn't be fair to him to go from AHL MVP to AHL back-up/ECHL starter.
couldnt have been better said and i very much so agree rather see blackie get the spot always been high on him he will be a star in the league thats no doubt in my mind. labarb nothing bt a future ahl'er cant handle the nhl. thats a fact, if u watched him play he is hrtfrds next ken gernander

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04-25-2004, 01:28 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by jay 'n skeeta
couldnt have been better said and i very much so agree rather see blackie get the spot always been high on him he will be a star in the league thats no doubt in my mind. labarb nothing bt a future ahl'er cant handle the nhl. thats a fact, if u watched him play he is hrtfrds next ken gernander
I dont want to go out and sign a UFA, I say we keep dunham as backup(we would have to pay 2/3 of salary if he were bought out) and let blackburn and ludquist fight it out in training camp. winner plays 60 games with Rangers and loser plays 60 games with Wolfpack. Then in 2005 Rangers have best 1-2 goalie tandem in NHL.

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04-25-2004, 01:38 PM
  #10
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Blackburn (if healthy) needs a year on the Pack at least, and Lundquivst also needs some AHL time to get acclaimated to North American hockey and rinks. Cloutier would be a nice pickup at the right price, he's also not as old as Bulin.


Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
I dont want to go out and sign a UFA, I say we keep dunham as backup(we would have to pay 2/3 of salary if he were bought out) and let blackburn and ludquist fight it out in training camp. winner plays 60 games with Rangers and loser plays 60 games with Wolfpack. Then in 2005 Rangers have best 1-2 goalie tandem in NHL.

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04-25-2004, 02:26 PM
  #11
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Granted I don't believe anything in the New York Post, however, having Cloutier on net would be great.
Lundqvist/Blackburn both need a year more, especially Blackburn.
I don't see how Dunham can handle being on the Rangers after this past season.
Valiquette definitely deserves a shot to be at least a solid backup.

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04-25-2004, 02:54 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
I dont want to go out and sign a UFA, I say we keep dunham as backup(we would have to pay 2/3 of salary if he were bought out) and let blackburn and ludquist fight it out in training camp. winner plays 60 games with Rangers and loser plays 60 games with Wolfpack. Then in 2005 Rangers have best 1-2 goalie tandem in NHL.
I think this is the first time I've read Brooks and actually completly agreed with him and his logic here. Seriously I think this really is.

Anyway free I totally disagree with you. IF clouts is a FA then we should DEFINETLY sign him to a 2 year deal, even a 3 year deal with a 4th year option. Make the contract front loaded so he doesn't hurt us financially like a franchise tender when Blackburn or Ludquist get up here, show what their worth and start making it. Blackburn and Ludquist should both spend next season in Hartford and stay there all year unless we get an injury. We should sign Clouts (or Knabibulin) if we can (and make them the #1 obviously), then have our other goalies like Labarera, Mclennen, maybe even draft a goalie in the middle or the end of the draft somewhere, and those other slobs we picked up on the deadline to fight it out for the backup with the big club.

Next year we would have Clouts/Knabi as our starter. A decent backup with emerge from that group right there. If theres an injury, Blackburn or Ludquist will get the call to be the backup for the big club. The next season, give last years backup, blacky, and luquist a chance to fight it our for the backup with the big club and if blacky or luquist win it, give them about 20-25 starts so they wont get rusty for a year. Then the next year, if Clouts is gone, Blackburn and Ludquist will be seasoned for two years (at this points we'll have an idea of how good they will really be), and they will take over, maybe split it like Minnesota. If Clouts is still there and going strong then same thing, let him start and give Blacky/Ludquist say 25-30 starts. Then its three years and you either got Blacky/Ludquist ready to take over the franchise or you resign Clouts/Knabi and draft some more projects. All the time in the AHL and a good long taste test of the NHL will make them better goaltenders for the long run anyway. Good call by Larry. Slats should take that seriously.

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04-25-2004, 03:21 PM
  #13
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Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Cloutier may very well be back next season, splitting time with Alex Auld. It all depends on what he gets at arbitration, if he decides to go. I can see the Canucks going as high as $3.5 mil on a one year deal, anything more and I think they let him walk. As it has already been mentioned, Cloutier was not the problem in this years post-season, and wasn't really the problem last year either, the team played like crap in front of him. But one thing of major concern is Clouts' knack of going down with injury either during the post-season(like this year), or being injured just prior to the post-season(previous two years). Whether this is due to bad condtioning, bad luck, or just being overworked is up for discussion, but the Canucks may want to get a fresh start. If Cloutier is brought back next season that will be 3 years in a row that the Canucks enter the post-season as a contending team(if they are contenders... ) with a ? mark between the pipes. I don't know if the Canucks can afford that.

Anyway, Cloutier is a solid goalie who will land somewhere if Vancouver lets him go. I think New York could be a good fit.

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04-25-2004, 06:28 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
I dont want to go out and sign a UFA, I say we keep dunham as backup(we would have to pay 2/3 of salary if he were bought out) and let blackburn and ludquist fight it out in training camp. winner plays 60 games with Rangers and loser plays 60 games with Wolfpack. Then in 2005 Rangers have best 1-2 goalie tandem in NHL.
yeah definitly sounds good but im not to sure about having dunham around i think he was good for us and i do also think he came back and played while injured he struggled side to side and getting up after being down, so a healthy dunham migh be ok but i still dont know and blackburn missed all of last season really i think he will need a year in hartford b4 being nhl ready, and yeah if lunqvist is what they say with blackie and lunds it will be one of the best combos in the nhl for years to come especially if they both mature to be great but then agian we cant keep 2 number one goalies one would have to be moved and i dont think it should be blackie

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04-25-2004, 06:33 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by Potter
I think this is the first time I've read Brooks and actually completly agreed with him and his logic here. Seriously I think this really is.

Anyway free I totally disagree with you. IF clouts is a FA then we should DEFINETLY sign him to a 2 year deal, even a 3 year deal with a 4th year option. Make the contract front loaded so he doesn't hurt us financially like a franchise tender when Blackburn or Ludquist get up here, show what their worth and start making it. Blackburn and Ludquist should both spend next season in Hartford and stay there all year unless we get an injury. We should sign Clouts (or Knabibulin) if we can (and make them the #1 obviously), then have our other goalies like Labarera, Mclennen, maybe even draft a goalie in the middle or the end of the draft somewhere, and those other slobs we picked up on the deadline to fight it out for the backup with the big club.

Next year we would have Clouts/Knabi as our starter. A decent backup with emerge from that group right there. If theres an injury, Blackburn or Ludquist will get the call to be the backup for the big club. The next season, give last years backup, blacky, and luquist a chance to fight it our for the backup with the big club and if blacky or luquist win it, give them about 20-25 starts so they wont get rusty for a year. Then the next year, if Clouts is gone, Blackburn and Ludquist will be seasoned for two years (at this points we'll have an idea of how good they will really be), and they will take over, maybe split it like Minnesota. If Clouts is still there and going strong then same thing, let him start and give Blacky/Ludquist say 25-30 starts. Then its three years and you either got Blacky/Ludquist ready to take over the franchise or you resign Clouts/Knabi and draft some more projects. All the time in the AHL and a good long taste test of the NHL will make them better goaltenders for the long run anyway. Good call by Larry. Slats should take that seriously.
dont count on that 2 # 1's its not realistic and its not gonna happen both need ice time atleast 50-60 games a year and like i said theyare both starters , plus nyr is not going to pay bulin 6.5 which is what he is owed and then pay cloutier 3.5- 4to back up then we still got dunhams salary. bulin and clouts is unrealistic and is not gonna happen, so dont get your hopes up

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04-25-2004, 06:34 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potter
I think this is the first time I've read Brooks and actually completly agreed with him and his logic here. Seriously I think this really is.

Anyway free I totally disagree with you. IF clouts is a FA then we should DEFINETLY sign him to a 2 year deal, even a 3 year deal with a 4th year option. Make the contract front loaded so he doesn't hurt us financially like a franchise tender when Blackburn or Ludquist get up here, show what their worth and start making it. Blackburn and Ludquist should both spend next season in Hartford and stay there all year unless we get an injury. We should sign Clouts (or Knabibulin) if we can (and make them the #1 obviously), then have our other goalies like Labarera, Mclennen, maybe even draft a goalie in the middle or the end of the draft somewhere, and those other slobs we picked up on the deadline to fight it out for the backup with the big club.

Next year we would have Clouts/Knabi as our starter. A decent backup with emerge from that group right there. If theres an injury, Blackburn or Ludquist will get the call to be the backup for the big club. The next season, give last years backup, blacky, and luquist a chance to fight it our for the backup with the big club and if blacky or luquist win it, give them about 20-25 starts so they wont get rusty for a year. Then the next year, if Clouts is gone, Blackburn and Ludquist will be seasoned for two years (at this points we'll have an idea of how good they will really be), and they will take over, maybe split it like Minnesota. If Clouts is still there and going strong then same thing, let him start and give Blacky/Ludquist say 25-30 starts. Then its three years and you either got Blacky/Ludquist ready to take over the franchise or you resign Clouts/Knabi and draft some more projects. All the time in the AHL and a good long taste test of the NHL will make them better goaltenders for the long run anyway. Good call by Larry. Slats should take that seriously.
my fault you said either of them as our starter i thought u said both i appologize

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04-26-2004, 09:37 AM
  #17
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For three or four months now Brooks has maintained that Dunham won't be back next season. I don't see how he can be so sure about that. Dunham is vastly overpaid and has vastly under performed this season. Who really is picking up this guy? He's not a true #1 but he's being paid as one.

It does not make sense to me to pay for 2/3 of his contract just to get him off the team and then pay UFA money to someone else. The team is going to be bad. The team is not a now team. What difference does it really make if Mike Dunham or Jamie McLellan or Johan Hedberg is here? None of those guys are the future. The Ranger just need someone to keep the nets warm until Lundqvist or Blackburn are ready

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04-26-2004, 09:57 AM
  #18
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Brooks is right about Dunham, no way he stays - high salary and all, he'll be picked up by another team.

Cloutier is still wanted in Vancouver, he won't be dealt.

Salo will probably be the one we sign.

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04-26-2004, 03:50 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
For three or four months now Brooks has maintained that Dunham won't be back next season. I don't see how he can be so sure about that. Dunham is vastly overpaid and has vastly under performed this season. Who really is picking up this guy? He's not a true #1 but he's being paid as one.

It does not make sense to me to pay for 2/3 of his contract just to get him off the team and then pay UFA money to someone else. The team is going to be bad. The team is not a now team. What difference does it really make if Mike Dunham or Jamie McLellan or Johan Hedberg is here? None of those guys are the future. The Ranger just need someone to keep the nets warm until Lundqvist or Blackburn are ready
SBOB what good is it to a group of young guys to come up to the NHL and just lose. I think that would be detrimental. Even if they did lose alot of games, Brooks was right about have a solid goalie to keep you in games because of the confidence it provides. I've played on teams with amazing tenders and terrible ones. Based on what I've seen and gone through, an amazing tender would do this team good, not just in the win/loss column, but with the development of these kids we got coming up. Losing is a cancer that money AND a ton of prospects wont fix. This team has to develope a winning atmosphere and even when we don't win we have to grind out the game and not make it easy. Look at the Sharks this year or the Wild last year. Before the season both teams looked terrible, barely any "talent" in there but they won with solid goaltending and team desire to win.

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04-26-2004, 04:31 PM
  #20
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No doubt, Potter...

but at what cost? So far, goaltending has cost this team Rem Murray, Zidlicky and Kloucek. Maybe not the greatest bunch, but it's something. A winning environment is needed, but should this team overpay for a goaltender to get there? Personally, if Osgood's available and Dunham's actually gone, I'd sign him for a year or two. Not the greatest, but this team doesn't deserve the greatest, and he would suffice and serve as a bridge so at least in a year or two you may know about Blackburn or Lundqvist. Signing a guy like Cloutier would do nothing for this team. he lacks composure and being behind this Ranger team would rattle him to no end. He ain't the right guy for this team, right now.

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04-26-2004, 04:36 PM
  #21
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if cloutier becomes a ufa, which is possible because the nucks will then get a good pick out of it, i would defintely sign him over khabi because he is younger and cheaper. now if they decide to just straight out trade his rights id be more than willing to deal the umberger pick back to them and something else, be it another one of our picks or even a prospect. i dont really think they will keep cloutier though, he has been excellent for them, but he has not been able to take them anywhere in the playoffs, i think they will bring back auld or another veteran goalie and split whoever it is with auld, who will be a solid nhl netminder.

with this being said we will not have clouts and dunham here, i tend to agree with brooks (yes im scared) that dunham is done. sather will either try and trade him with us eating a ton of salary or just buy him out and bring in a veteran goalie like clouts or khabi and give the other spot to a youngster say valiquette or maybe labarbera, while blackie and lundqvist split time in hartford.

one thing that hasnt even been mentioned here is that if the nucks do decide to go with auld they will defintely want an experience back-up who can be a starter if necessary, that team cannot afford to not make the playoffs. so if im glen sather (which im not) i offer them the umberger pick back and mike dunham with 1.5 million dollars for the rights to clouts

this way we get cloutier to be our goalie and we sign him in a frontloaded contract, the nucks get dunham, who could be their back-up or starter depending on what they want to do with auld, and they get money from us plus a pick. dunham could do very well behind a good defense like the nucks have and he could just use the change

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04-26-2004, 04:52 PM
  #22
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Janerixon...

if that's all it would take to get Cloutier (a second rounder), then I'd probably do that too. But I get the feeling that Cloutier may get a bit more demand to up the price from a second rounder. I tend to doubt, though, that he becomes UFA.

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04-26-2004, 05:46 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
if that's all it would take to get Cloutier (a second rounder), then I'd probably do that too. But I get the feeling that Cloutier may get a bit more demand to up the price from a second rounder. I tend to doubt, though, that he becomes UFA.
fletch
i think it all really depends on what the nucks feel about auld. clearly cloutier has been their roman cechmanek, a solid goalie during the regular season, but for whatever reason he hasnt been the same goalie come playoff time. to me as a ranger fan this is not an issue, i want to get to the playoffs, and clouts has taken his team there, thats all i want for now. in essence it is just a 2nd round pick for cloutier but they will get dunham who may be the dunham we got for 30 something games when we traded murray, zidlicky and kloucek for him plus theyd get some cash to make him more affordable

i dont think they will get a better offer than that, remember goalies never go for fair market value and we clearly overpaid for dunham (even though zidlicky is the only regular in their lineup) plus guys like khabi, burke, salo, biron, and possibly lalime will all be on the market

what teams besides ours are really even looking to upgrade their goaltender?
only teams i can think of off the top of my head is the sens (and thats if they dont bring lalime back) and blues (if they dont bring ozzy back), and both those teams will want someone better than cloutier and then maybe the kings, caps, and thrashers may be looking to add a goalie

there is not going to be a huge market for cloutier, if the nucks decide to go with auld, cloutier should not cost very much too obtain especially with our abundance of picks and we can send them dunham with cash

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04-26-2004, 07:14 PM
  #24
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One problem with Clouts is...

he got hurt this season. Last season they got out of the second round, and the previous season they lost to a pretty good Detroit team and overall, that team wasn't good enough as a whole anyways.

I don't think they're calling him a playoff bust a la Cechmanek just yet.

As for teams that may look at acquiring him, there may be some, but as you mentioned, there will be other goalies on the market too. Personally, I don't think I'd be giving up too much for a goalie. Like I said, I'd even consider Osgood, who's UFA.

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04-26-2004, 10:43 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potter
SBOB what good is it to a group of young guys to come up to the NHL and just lose. I think that would be detrimental. Even if they did lose alot of games, Brooks was right about have a solid goalie to keep you in games because of the confidence it provides. I've played on teams with amazing tenders and terrible ones. Based on what I've seen and gone through, an amazing tender would do this team good, not just in the win/loss column, but with the development of these kids we got coming up. Losing is a cancer that money AND a ton of prospects wont fix. This team has to develope a winning atmosphere and even when we don't win we have to grind out the game and not make it easy. Look at the Sharks this year or the Wild last year. Before the season both teams looked terrible, barely any "talent" in there but they won with solid goaltending and team desire to win.
Couple of things:

1) This team is not a goalie away from being competitive.

2) They certainly are not a Dan Cloutier, Johan Hedberg, or Tommy Salo away from competing.

3) Winning is an attitude that starts at the top. If this team had a winner of coach who would employ a system there results would be different.

4) These kids are not at the point where losing will be detrimental to their development. Rather I prefer them get a distaste for it. Teams go through bad spells. Organizations get through them.

5) A system that works in which players play at both ends disguises a lot Nabakov and Roloson are not the best goalies in the league. Teams that play well as a team make their players better.

6) With the uncertainty of the CBA and a potential cap, it makes no sense to buy out Dunham or eat a large chunk of contract to trade him just so you can spend money on an equally bad or marginally better goalie.

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