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Tampa Bay After Kris Versteeg?

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Old
03-02-2010, 12:01 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
You guys want St Louis and Stamkos too?

You must be kidding me. I wouldnt trade a 1st for Versteeg, especially our first, let alone all these other assets you guys want for a salary dump goalie coming back to us.

Please.
Jesus you are out of control.

A first rounder in 2011 (weak draft, we SHOULD improve our team enough to have that pick be on the back half of 15, a goaltender who will be gone after this season (he's earned a significant raise, don't fool yourself) and the ghost of Alex Tanguay for a young kid that could put up 30 and is signed for at least another year (don't know his numbers)

I'm a fan of the Lightning too, I just don't let it cloud my judgement.

I do have a problem with how much money Huet makes though. For someone who would probably at best split starts with Smith, 5.6 for the next two years is pretty heavy.

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03-02-2010, 12:33 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Kane and Toews were gimme picks,,,
No they weren't. If both players sucked you'd be screaming that they should have drafted someone else. Its real convenient to dismiss something good in hindsight in an attempt to accentuate the negative in spite of the positive. There is no such thing as a "gimme" pick. You remember Alexandre Daigle or Patrick Stefan? Also both "gimme" picks. Lots and lots of "gimme" picks that never did a damn thing in the NHL. I'm so sick of the Tallon bashers saying these were "gimme" picks. Plenty of Hawks fans were screaming to pick players other than Kane or Toews.....


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03-02-2010, 12:38 AM
  #53
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Seriously...the Hawks could have Turris and JVR right now (obviously JVR is in a different league than Turris), and heads would be rolling.

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03-02-2010, 12:43 AM
  #54
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For the record I never had a problem with Tallon as a GM...

that being said, and I were GM (which I am not, of course), if someone were to offer me a top 10 pick (especially in a deep draft), I would take it- to dump that salary; in fact I'd almost fly back from Australia to drive Steeger to the airport... nothing personal, it is just cap business...

Now that being said, I doubt anyone would actually offer a top 10 pick ... if it came up, I would take it all things considered.


Last edited by southerncross116: 03-02-2010 at 04:28 AM.
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Old
03-02-2010, 12:54 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwater13 View Post
No they weren't. If both players sucked you'd be screaming that they should have drafted someone else. Its real convenient to dismiss something good in hindsight in an attempt to accentuate the negative in spite of the positive. There is no such thing as a "gimme" pick. Your remember Alexandre Daigle or Patrick Stefan? Also both "gimme" picks. Lots and lots of "gimme" picks that never did a damn thing in the NHL. I'm so sick of the Tallon bashers saying these were "gimme" picks. Plenty of Hawks fans were screaming to pick players other than Kane or Toews.....

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03-02-2010, 01:10 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwater13 View Post
No they weren't. If both players sucked you'd be screaming that they should have drafted someone else. Its real convenient to dismiss something good in hindsight in an attempt to accentuate the negative in spite of the positive. There is no such thing as a "gimme" pick. Your remember Alexandre Daigle or Patrick Stefan? Also both "gimme" picks. Lots and lots of "gimme" picks that never did a damn thing in the NHL. I'm so sick of the Tallon bashers saying these were "gimme" picks. Plenty of Hawks fans were screaming to pick players other than Kane or Toews.....
Actually I didn't think Stefan was all that great of a prospect. I thought Atlanta would have been better served trading the pick for an established NHL player.

I am so sick of the Tallon lovers giving him too much credit and overlooking his screwups.

Smith and Pulford put the foundations of this team in place.

Smith selected Seabrook , Keith , Byfuglien , Burish along with guys like Ruutu , Babchuk and Wisniewski who were later sent off for Ladd (Good pickup) , Garbage (Richmond) and rental garbage (Pahlsson).

Lets not forget Crawford is also a Smith guy

Pulford drafted Bolland and Brouwer along with the recently traded Barker

Add in Jake Dowell and Bryan Bickell in system.

Tallon drafted 3 freaking Hawks that are on roster.

Toews , Kane and Hjalmarsson

Dont give me that garbage about him being great drafter and building this team.

Tallon's horrendous free agent signings and overpays should be held against him.

All the Tallon apologist's overlook that

Average drafting + horrendous with free agents doesn't make someone a great GM. He was good on majority of his trades but his overall time as our GM was for most part negative

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03-02-2010, 01:24 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post

Tallon drafted 3 freaking Hawks that are on roster.

Toews , Kane and Hjalmarsson

Dont give me that garbage about him being great drafter and building this team.
Who do you think traded for Sharp, Ladd and Versteeg? And we'll see how the young guys in the system that Tallon did draft - Skille, Beach, Lalonde, Olsen - contribute down the line when some of the current roster has to be moved.

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03-02-2010, 01:35 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mealman View Post
Tallons high draft picks were so slotted accordingly for him he had no choice but to read the name.

He also busted out on Barker when he had the option to trade down, Toews was a gimmie pick and rumors still run around he wanted Staal. Kane was the best offensive talent in his draft, there was no way Tallon was going to take Turris or JVR, both players are nowhere near as gifted as Kane. Dumas gets over looked on account of the Pulford years where Bob got the final say on the list of five Dumas gave him, but wasnt restricted at al afterwards and then suddenly the Hawks drafted better.

Duncan Keith= Dumas pick. End of.

Tallon takes credit for drafting the gimmie picks, but this team was built by Michel Dumas thru the draft. And trading for Patrick Sharp= Dumas, Versteeg= Dumas.

Lets not get carried away with exactly what Tallon brought to the table.
No offense - but this is the biggest bit of revisionist history I've ever seen. Kane & Toews were anything but slam dunks. Kane was 5-10 & 160 lbs, and both Backstrom & Kessel were on the board and seen as VERY solid options at draft as well.

I'm not holding Tallon blameless with some of the bad contracts - but he made some shrewd drafts and trades. I just find it odd that Dumas, who couldn't find his arse with a map and compass, is given all the credit. How can you give credit to Dumas when Tallon was the GM who negotiated those trades?

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03-02-2010, 01:37 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Blackwater13 View Post
No they weren't.
Yes they were. Both players were top three picks, one first overall, in two deep drafts. The level of fail was almost impossible, yet, Tallon wanted Staal over Toews, which would have been a huge mistake, not taking anything away from Staal, but after the olympics, Toews is looking to be the jewel of his draft class by not a small margin, but a huge one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwater13 View Post
If both players sucked you'd be screaming that they should have drafted someone else.
Um....ok?
And Tallon would have been out of a job, wait.......
Tallon can draft wisely and still lose his job on account of his mental shortcomings reguardless, so either way Tallon is pimped for naught because if he really was the brains behind the resurgeance of the Blackhawks, he would have had numerous offers to turn a few franchises around that could use a make over instead of getting a generic title to rock a lazyboy at home for the Hawks.
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Originally Posted by Blackwater13 View Post
Its real convenient to dismiss something good in hindsight in an attempt to accentuate the negative in spite of the positive.
This makes no sense at all. Tallons actual body of work is backed up by numerous avenues of others peoples talents, Dumas being his main cog.If Tallon was behind the Hawks drafts, then with the exception of the gimmie top three picks a casual fan could have taken if they watched current film, they would have be glorious busts like the decades of ineptitude the Hawks have had.Tallon was a company guy, a puppet, a friggin color commentator who offered nothing but a zing one liner here and there, he had no idea how to run a hockey roster if he didnt rely on the experience of others. His willingness to allow others to do their job was/is his biggest strength, while he took all the credit.

Thats the truth about Tallon. His over riding Ladd for Barker, the next Potvin is testimonial enough that he had very little knowledge about talent evaluation, and stuck to the trust in somebody who actually knew what to look for.

And P.S, if you think for one second that if Staal and Toews were on the board that Toews would have still been a Hawk, you have no clue nor know your actual Blackhawk facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwater13 View Post
There is no such thing as a "gimme" pick.
Yes there is.

Crosby was such a gimmie pick that the NHL made stips for every team to have a chance to draft him. It was rigged, but still.
OV was a gimmie, Malkin, gimmie, Toews a gimmie, just two teams stupid enough to pass on him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwater13 View Post
Your remember Alexandre Daigle or Patrick Stefan?
lol, Daigle was head and shoulders the best player going into that draft, with teams trying to trade up to get him. He was a gimmie pick, its not his teams fault he lost the desire to play, Stefan was the biggest question mark in a garbage draft, but his size and the fact he played NA hockey made him a gimmie pick.

So right there, you fail. Nobody passes on what many consider top prospects or drafts people with the expectation that they fail...with the small exception of the Blackhawks 90's drafts which have to be the worst in NHL history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwater13 View Post
Also both "gimme" picks. Lots and lots of "gimme" picks that never did a damn thing in the NHL.
Scouting and development have increased by leaps and bounds since Daigle days. As you can see, most top ten picks are hits in this day and age and the only top three pick I would say busted out as of late would be, you guessed it, a Tallon pick, Cameron Barker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwater13 View Post
I'm so sick of the Tallon bashers saying these were "gimme" picks. Plenty of Hawks fans were screaming to pick players other than Kane or Toews.....
And most Hawk fans are bandwagoners who have no clue, or jaded 300 level clowns who would rather complain then actually appreciate the team they have.

But to put Tallon on god level for the way the Hawks have turned is laughable at best when a year before he became GM he was begging for an extra 50k and meal vouchers to commentate.

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03-02-2010, 01:47 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
No offense - but this is the biggest bit of revisionist history I've ever seen. Kane & Toews were anything but slam dunks. Kane was 5-10 & 160 lbs, and both Backstrom & Kessel were on the board and seen as VERY solid options at draft as well.
Kane, an american boy with huge offensive skills was the only choice. Kessels stock fell huge because of healthy concerns which rang true, and Backstrom at would have seen a huge reach at the time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I'm not holding Tallon blameless with some of the bad contracts - but he made some shrewd drafts and trades. I just find it odd that Dumas, who couldn't find his arse with a map and compass, is given all the credit. How can you give credit to Dumas when Tallon was the GM who negotiated those trades?
Because Dumas is the head of scouting, maybe? Which goes far beyond just the draft, in reality.

As for Dumas not finding his arse, I dont know if he can, but he did find Duncan Keith, and that trumps anything Tallon would lurve to claim as his own.

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03-02-2010, 01:50 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Mealman View Post

Scouting and development have increased by leaps and bounds since Daigle days. As you can see, most top ten picks are hits in this day and age and the only top three pick I would say busted out as of late would be, you guessed it, a Tallon pick, Cameron Barker.
Hmm, you and blackhawkswincup need to get your stories straight. Since Bob Pulford was technically still around for the 2004 draft, blackhawkswincup is giving Tallon no credit whatsoever for anybody taken (Barker, Bolland, Brouwer). But you're bashing Tallon for blowing the 3rd overall pick in that same draft. Which one is it?

And BTW, sorry to the creator of this thread for turning it into a Dale Tallon revisionist thread.

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03-02-2010, 01:53 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by HawksRule7 View Post
Hmm, you and blackhawkswincup need to get your stories straight. Since Bob Pulford was technically still around for the 2004 draft, blackhawkswincup is giving Tallon no credit whatsoever for anybody taken (Barker, Bolland, Brouwer). But you're bashing Tallon for blowing the 3rd overall pick in that same draft. Which one is it?

And BTW, sorry to the creator of this thread for turning it into a Dale Tallon revisionist thread.
Pulford had final say. He was man in charge.

Barker was a Pulford pick!

And your right,,,,, This debate can be taken up at another time.

We shall drop it!


Now lets bring this back to the purpose.

Is there any realistic trade out there that can improve Hawks that would see Versteeg sent packing.

Unless Vokoun situation changes drastically I dont expect there will be

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03-02-2010, 01:53 AM
  #63
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Who do you think traded for Sharp, Ladd and Versteeg? And we'll see how the young guys in the system that Tallon did draft - Skille, Beach, Lalonde, Olsen - contribute down the line when some of the current roster has to be moved.
Sharp was scouted hard by Dumas, same as Versteeg.

Dumas wanted Ladd in the draft but was over rided by Tallon.

Tallon didnt draft any of those other guys, they are 100% Dumas picks, Tallon just nodded his head when Dumas told him "this is who we are taking".

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03-02-2010, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Pulford had final say. He was man in charge.

Barker was a Pulford pick!

And your right,,,,, This debate can be taken up at another time.

We shall drop it!


Now lets bring this back to the purpose.

Is there any realistic trade out there that can improve Hawks that would see Versteeg sent packing.

Unless Vokoun situation changes drastically I dont expect there will be
Barker was all Tallon.

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03-02-2010, 01:57 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by HawksRule7 View Post
Hmm, you and blackhawkswincup need to get your stories straight. Since Bob Pulford was technically still around for the 2004 draft, blackhawkswincup is giving Tallon no credit whatsoever for anybody taken (Barker, Bolland, Brouwer). But you're bashing Tallon for blowing the 3rd overall pick in that same draft. Which one is it?

And BTW, sorry to the creator of this thread for turning it into a Dale Tallon revisionist thread.
Pulford had nothing to do with the draft in 2004, it was Tallons show, which got better after he listened to Dumas.

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03-02-2010, 02:43 AM
  #66
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Versteeg
conditional 3rd (if Tanguay resigns)



Tanguay
1st (2010)
Helenius (not a big part, but something to say... OMG why is he included)


or the 2nd Deal (I doubt it will happen)



Versteeg
Huet
1st
Mid-Prospect (like Sweat or Makarov, NOT Beach, Lalonde, Olson, Kruger or Skille)



Tanguay
Niittymaki

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03-02-2010, 03:02 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post


Versteeg
conditional 3rd (if Tanguay resigns)



Tanguay
1st (2010)
Helenius (not a big part, but something to say... OMG why is he included)


or the 2nd Deal (I doubt it will happen)



Versteeg
Huet
1st
Mid-Prospect (like Sweat or Makarov, NOT Beach, Lalonde, Olson, Kruger or Skille)



Tanguay
Niittymaki
First deal....well if we could come to another solution other than our first then I would be all for it.

Second deal.........As much as I dread the thought of Huet coming over, I'd be willing to pull on it. IT would depend on whether the new owner would be willing to fork over the cash for Huet though.....

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03-02-2010, 03:07 AM
  #68
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to the first, I only would take out Helenius in this Deal.

and the 2nd... I never thought anyone here would say yes to Huet

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03-02-2010, 03:49 AM
  #69
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to the first, I only would take out Helenius in this Deal.

and the 2nd... I never thought anyone here would say yes to Huet
He has two years left yes? If so, it wouldn't be a bad deal for tampa at all....Anything more than that, more thought would be needed....

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03-02-2010, 03:53 AM
  #70
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Huet has 2 more years on his contract.

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03-02-2010, 04:03 AM
  #71
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He has two years left yes? If so, it wouldn't be a bad deal for tampa at all....Anything more than that, more thought would be needed....
No it wouldnt be bad, othet that the fact the Bolts would be taking on about $9 million in cap hit.

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03-02-2010, 04:30 AM
  #72
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No need for Tanguay -so pass.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:40 AM
  #73
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To Chicago
Carter Ashton
Alex Tanguay
1st round pick [2010 or 2011 Hawks choice]

To Tampa Bay
Kris Versteeg
Sergei Makarov

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03-02-2010, 11:44 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
To Chicago
Carter Ashton
Alex Tanguay
1st round pick

To Tampa Bay
Kris Versteeg
Sergei Makarov
1st off

-TB GM should be fired for not hanging up the phone ,,,, Massive overpayment
-2nd off its Igor Makarov

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03-02-2010, 11:45 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
To Chicago
Carter Ashton
Alex Tanguay
1st round pick [2010 or 2011 Hawks choice]

To Tampa Bay
Kris Versteeg
Sergei Makarov
Igor Makarov?

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