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Tampa Bay After Kris Versteeg?

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:47 AM
  #76
Mr Underhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
To Chicago
Carter Ashton
Alex Tanguay
1st round pick [2010 or 2011 Hawks choice]

To Tampa Bay
Kris Versteeg
Sergei Makarov
No...If you are talking about Igor Marakov that is. We dont want that bozo...

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:47 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
To Chicago
Carter Ashton
Alex Tanguay
1st round pick [2010 or 2011 Hawks choice]

To Tampa Bay
Kris Versteeg
Sergei Makarov
Ashton + 1st > Versteeg
Tanguay > Makarov

No way Tampa does that. Not only does Chicago add Cup experience with Tanguay for the Cup run this year they'd also solve a lot of their salary problems for next year while adding a 1st and a great prospect. Not happening.

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:53 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Mealman View Post
Sharp was scouted hard by Dumas, same as Versteeg.

Dumas wanted Ladd in the draft but was over rided by Tallon.

Tallon didnt draft any of those other guys, they are 100% Dumas picks, Tallon just nodded his head when Dumas told him "this is who we are taking".

So Dumas - who basically went 0 for 10 years in the scouting department should be given 100% credit for every good trade or draft, and Tallon should be given 100% of the blame for every bad draft or contract.

I'm not saying that Tallon deserves all the credit - but come on.

And calling Toews or Kane a "slam dunk" in any sort of similiar fashion to Crosby, AO or Malkin is just 100% revisionist history. People called it a "safe pick" because but there were significant questions about his offensive upside. Any time you're drafting a kid thats 5-10 and 160 lbs first overall - it's anything but a "slam dunk". I don't care what kind of numbers were put up playing against other kids in junior - that's a SIGNIFICNT concern.

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:56 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
1st off

-TB GM should be fired for not hanging up the phone ,,,, Massive overpayment
-2nd off its Igor Makarov


Yeah your right, Bowman should move Versteeg for a 2nd round pick to Tampa Bay so he can get chummy with the Tampa Bay brass..

I guess its better to be liked then to have standards..



You know what???

You're obviously are poor at assessing talent and player values.

Do you realize that a 24-year old player like Versteeg has WAY MORE value then 1st round picks and yet to skate in an NHL game prospect????

Thats something you just don't get..

At any rate, thats what I would want from Tampa and if Tampa said no, then I would move on to Atlanta,NYI,Phoenix,LA,Toronto,Colorado etc where Versteeg would be a good fit..

Its quite clear you dont realize Versteeg IS NOT dead weight salary dump..

Young players like Versteeg RARELY hit the market..

Versteeg is the type of player you build a franchise with, he can be a cornerstone to a rebuilding franchise. The kid isnt even in his prime yet and he has 15 more NHL seasons left in his take and hes already a 60-70 point player if he gets first line/second line minutes on a consistent basis..

But hey, believe what you want....

Its quite obvious you dont ever consider intangibles in your assessment of players.

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:57 AM
  #80
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I really think Tampa would prefer to trade their first and Tanguay over Ashton...

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:59 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
To Chicago
Carter Ashton
Alex Tanguay
1st round pick [2010 or 2011 Hawks choice]

To Tampa Bay
Kris Versteeg
Sergei Makarov
We are not trading both Ashton and our first

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:00 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post


Yeah your right, Bowman should move Versteeg for a 2nd round pick to Tampa Bay so he can get chummy with the Tampa Bay brass..

I guess its better to be liked then to have standards..



You know what???

You're obviously are poor at assessing talent and player values.

Do you realize that a 24-year old player like Versteeg has WAY MORE value then 1st round picks and yet to skate in an NHL game prospect????

Thats something you just don't get..

At any rate, thats what I would want from Tampa and if Tampa said no, then I would move on to Atlanta,NYI,Phoenix,LA,Toronto,Colorado etc where Versteeg would be a good fit..

Its quite clear you dont realize Versteeg IS NOT dead weight salary dump..

Young players like Versteeg RARELY hit the market..

Versteeg is the type of player you build a franchise with, he can be a cornerstone to a rebuilding franchise. The kid isnt even in his prime yet and he has 15 more NHL seasons left in his take and hes already a 60-70 point player if he gets first line/second line minutes on a consistent basis..

But hey, believe what you want....

Its quite obvious you dont ever consider intangibles in your assessment of players.
Your not going to get a very good/great prospect + high/mid level 1st + upcoming UFA forward for Kris Versteeg

If it was Patrick Sharp I could see the merit in your idea but not Versteeg

TB's 1st = Enough for Versteeg

And Igor has struggled in KHL. He has no value. I expect he will make journey over here to try and win a roster spot next camp.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:00 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Versteeg is the type of player you build a franchise with, he can be a cornerstone to a rebuilding franchise.
Overrating Versteeg much?

Seriously Versteeg is a good young player but no way can he be viewed as a cornerstone to a rebuilding franchise. Kane and Toews are those cornerstone players, not someone like Versteeg. Versteeg's a great complimentary player for those cornerstone pieces but not by himself a cornerstone for a franchise.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:01 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vujtek View Post
Ashton + 1st > Versteeg
Tanguay > Makarov

No way Tampa does that. Not only does Chicago add Cup experience with Tanguay for the Cup run this year they'd also solve a lot of their salary problems for next year while adding a 1st and a great prospect. Not happening.
Really Ashton hasen't even played a damn NHL game yet, and the draft pick is only that..

Now how the hell are you going to tell me a prospect and a pick is worth MORE then a young productive NHL player????

Please justify that...

Sure if you had a lottery pick..

The truth is Tampa Bay has NOTHING the Hawks would want other then that deal I proposed.

You ever think about that?

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:02 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post


Yeah your right, Bowman should move Versteeg for a 2nd round pick to Tampa Bay so he can get chummy with the Tampa Bay brass..

I guess its better to be liked then to have standards..



You know what???

You're obviously are poor at assessing talent and player values.

Do you realize that a 24-year old player like Versteeg has WAY MORE value then 1st round picks and yet to skate in an NHL game prospect????

Thats something you just don't get..

At any rate, thats what I would want from Tampa and if Tampa said no, then I would move on to Atlanta,NYI,Phoenix,LA,Toronto,Colorado etc where Versteeg would be a good fit..

Its quite clear you dont realize Versteeg IS NOT dead weight salary dump..

Young players like Versteeg RARELY hit the market..

Versteeg is the type of player you build a franchise with, he can be a cornerstone to a rebuilding franchise. The kid isnt even in his prime yet and he has 15 more NHL seasons left in his take and hes already a 60-70 point player if he gets first line/second line minutes on a consistent basis..

But hey, believe what you want....

Its quite obvious you dont ever consider intangibles in your assessment of players.
Seriously, what makes you think youre gonna get any better than Tampa's 1st?

Keep it simple:

To Tampa:
Kris Versteeg

To Chicago:
Tampa's 2010 1st
Alex Tanguay

There is no way you will get better for just Versteeg by himself.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:05 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Really Ashton hasen't even played a damn NHL game yet, and the draft pick is only that..

Now how the hell are you going to tell me a prospect and a pick is worth MORE then a young productive NHL player????

Please justify that...

Sure if you had a lottery pick..

The truth is Tampa Bay has NOTHING the Hawks would want other then that deal I proposed.

You ever think about that?
Are you kidding me? Chicago should be licking their chops at a potential top 10 pick.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:05 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vujtek View Post
Overrating Versteeg much?

Seriously Versteeg is a good young player but no way can he be viewed as a cornerstone to a rebuilding franchise. Kane and Toews are those cornerstone players, not someone like Versteeg. Versteeg's a great complimentary player for those cornerstone pieces but not by himself a cornerstone for a franchise.
I never compared him to Kane or Toews... I merely was pointing out he can be a nice component and a mainstay on a team thats rebuilding. Which makes him a player you can build around given his age and his skill set.

You don't have to be an elite talent to be a franchise cornerstone.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:06 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post
Seriously, what makes you think youre gonna get any better than Tampa's 1st?

Keep it simple:

To Tampa:
Kris Versteeg

To Chicago:
Tampa's 2010 1st
Alex Tanguay

There is no way you will get better for just Versteeg by himself.
If Lawton walks into the draft with the highest pick being in the third round, he will be fired. You can keep Versteeg if thats the price tag your asking.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:08 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
I never compared him to Kane or Toews... I merely was pointing out he can be a nice component and a mainstay on a team thats rebuilding. Which makes him a player you can build around given his age and his skill set.

You don't have to be an elite talent to be a franchise cornerstone.
You have a point

Sharp + Seabrook aren't franchise players they are franchise cornerstones.

Guys like Versteeg = complimentary talent

TB's 1st is more then enough for someone like Versteeg

He is not worth what you are proposing.

Frankly that level of overvalue is just as bad as the people that think the Hawks will get a 4th rounder for our young talent we have to move

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:09 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Your not going to get a very good/great prospect + high/mid level 1st + upcoming UFA forward for Kris Versteeg

If it was Patrick Sharp I could see the merit in your idea but not Versteeg

TB's 1st = Enough for Versteeg

And Igor has struggled in KHL. He has no value. I expect he will make journey over here to try and win a roster spot next camp.
I say you're wrong..

If Ashton was so damn great he would be playing in the NHL, but that kid is a couple seasons away before even strapping on the boots for an NHL game..

Now Makarov has no value because he didn't have the best of seasons???

That notion that if you have a bad season you're worth nothing is a total HF fallacy.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:11 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt32 View Post
If Lawton walks into the draft with the highest pick being in the third round, he will be fired. You can keep Versteeg if thats the price tag your asking.
Are you saying that you wouldn't trade our 1st for Versteeg?

Im not saying its an obvious choice, but I would damn sure consider it.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:15 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
You have a point

Sharp + Seabrook aren't franchise players they are franchise cornerstones.

Guys like Versteeg = complimentary talent

TB's 1st is more then enough for someone like Versteeg

He is not worth what you are proposing.

Frankly that level of overvalue is just as bad as the people that think the Hawks will get a 4th rounder for our young talent we have to move
A 1st round pick [10 or 11 Tampas choice] + Carter Ashton + UFA rental is an over payment for a proven young NHL player that has already proven he has star talent????


If anything its the Hawks that take all the risk here by gambling..

Draft picks and prospects are a gamble and Versteeg is a sure thing.

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03-02-2010, 11:17 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
A 1st round pick [10 or 11 Tampas choice] + Carter Ashton + UFA rental is an over payment for a proven young NHL player that has already proven he has star talent????


If anything its the Hawks that take all the risk here by gambling..

Draft picks and prospects are a gamble and Versteeg is a sure thing.
However, Versteeg's success is a very small sample size. Hes had 1 good year, and hasnt exactly been lighting it up this year.


...and yes, I know the circumstances behind this season.

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03-02-2010, 11:21 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post
Are you kidding me? Chicago should be licking their chops at a potential top 10 pick.
Versteeg is a good player that can put up 70 points playing with Vinny, St Louis, Stamkos etc...

Now what makes you think a top 10 pick is worth a 24-year old first/second line player???

Versteeg is the type of player you would expect to get out of a top 10 pick BUT its still a gamble because there is no guarantee you will get a player like Versteeg in the top 10. Carter Ashton makes up for that risk..

In what universe does a top 10 pick = first/second line 24-year old stud?????

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03-02-2010, 11:22 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post


Young players like Versteeg RARELY hit the market..
We heard the same thing about Jay Cutler.

You're overrating Versteeg. He's worth a top-10 pick and a decent prospect or a good prospect (Ashton) and a 2nd.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:24 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Really Ashton hasen't even played a damn NHL game yet, and the draft pick is only that..

Now how the hell are you going to tell me a prospect and a pick is worth MORE then a young productive NHL player????
Quite easily actually. Had Versteeg signed a offer sheet last summer for the amount he now makes Chicago would have received what 1st and 3rd? Nothing close to two 1st rounders like you're asking and Versteeg's value was higher in the summer than it is now.

Also in a salary cap world 1st rounders and young contributing players on a entry level deal are worth gold. Ashton could be producing as early as next year. That is the same reason why I'm sure you not interested in entertaining the idea of trading Kyle Beach.

Versteeg won't get you two 1st rounders. Either deal with it or be ready to get disappointed when Chicago eventually moves him.

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03-02-2010, 11:26 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Versteeg is a good player that can put up 70 points playing with Vinny, St Louis, Stamkos etc...

Now what makes you think a top 10 pick is worth a 24-year old first/second line player???

Versteeg is the type of player you would expect to get out of a top 10 pick BUT its still a gamble because there is no guarantee you will get a player like Versteeg in the top 10. Carter Ashton makes up for that risk..

In what universe does a top 10 pick = first/second line 24-year old stud?????
In what universe does the team play for that is gonna offer you a better return? Answer me that before you start bloviating some crappy value.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:27 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post
However, Versteeg's success is a very small sample size. Hes had 1 good year, and hasnt exactly been lighting it up this year.


...and yes, I know the circumstances behind this season.
You ever watch Versteeg play??

This kid is no fluke, he tries things on the ice only elite players try.

Too bad the Hawks have to trade him, I would be opposed to trading him if the Hawks didn't have to.

However I think Versteeg would be a better player if he got more ice time and was put into a primary scoring role..

The Hawks are just so stacked Versteeg playing here is almost a waste of talent..

Whoever gets Versteeg is getting an excellent young exciting top 6 player..

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03-02-2010, 11:29 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Now Makarov has no value because he didn't have the best of seasons???
A Russian player who's still not crossed over to North America after 4 years since his draft year has generally little to none trade value in today's NHL. Makarov has value to Chicago but until he comes over you won't be getting much interest in him from other teams.

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03-02-2010, 11:32 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
A 1st round pick [10 or 11 Tampas choice] + Carter Ashton + UFA rental is an over payment for a proven young NHL player that has already proven he has star talent????


If anything its the Hawks that take all the risk here by gambling..

Draft picks and prospects are a gamble and Versteeg is a sure thing.

yes but you see, you also have to trade him due to cap restrictions, correct? you're not trading him because you're unhappy with his performance, so we get that you value him. but if you're going to use his performance as deductive reasoning for his worth in a trade you also have to factor in chicago's trade compulsion

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