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Tampa Bay After Kris Versteeg?

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:32 AM
  #101
Blackhawkswincup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
We heard the same thing about Jay Cutler.

You're overrating Versteeg. He's worth a top-10 pick and a decent prospect or a good prospect (Ashton) and a 2nd.
Dont drag Jay into this!

He is a hell of a QB

Even with all the INT"s he had one of the greatest seasons by a Bears QB in history.

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03-02-2010, 11:33 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post
In what universe does the team play for that is gonna offer you a better return? Answer me that before you start bloviating some crappy value.
Atlanta
NYI
Toronto
Colorado
LA
Phoenix
Edmonton

Those teams would love to have him..

Its not like Versteeg sucks and Tampa Bay is the only team looking to take a "flier" on him..

You can bet the Hawks will be getting offers from multiple teams for the kid.

You guys act as if Tampa Bay/Lawton is the only team Bowman can work with and its your offer or nothing...

Dont forget their are plenty of teams that would love to have Versteeg and if Tampa is so high on him Lawton will have to compete with those other GM's to bring him to Tampa Bay.

Thats probably something that never crossed your mind.

Typical HF boards stuff

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03-02-2010, 11:37 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Atlanta
NYI
Toronto
Colorado
LA
Phoenix
Edmonton

Those teams would love to have him..

Its not like Versteeg sucks and Tampa Bay is the only team looking to take a "flier" on him..

You can bet the Hawks will be getting offers from multiple teams for the kid.

You guys act as if Tampa Bay/Lawton is the only team Bowman can work with and its your offer or nothing...

Dont forget their are plenty of teams that would love to have Versteeg and if Tampa is so high on him Lawton will have to compete with those other GM's to bring him to Tampa Bay.

Thats probably something that never crossed your mind.

Typical HF boards stuff
No, dufus....I didnt ask what team wanted him, I asked what team is gonna offer you better for him than Tampa. Im sure every freakin team in the league would like the kid.

My guess is you wont get much (if any) better than Tampa's 1st and Tanguay.

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03-02-2010, 11:38 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by sandwichestime View Post
yes but you see, you also have to trade him due to cap restrictions, correct? you're not trading him because you're unhappy with his performance, so we get that you value him. but if you're going to use his performance as deductive reasoning for his worth in a trade you also have to factor in chicago's trade compulsion
And numerous teams will want him, the fact he has to be traded doesn't effect his value at all.

Supply and demand effects his value and there aren't many 24-year old studs with Versteegs skill set on the market.

You better believe teams will be lining up to get this kid.

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03-02-2010, 11:39 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Dont drag Jay into this!

He is a hell of a QB

Even with all the INT"s he had one of the greatest seasons by a Bears QB in history.
I'm not knocking Jay. He makes some boneheaded throws, but he's going to turn it around once we have an o-line.

What I meant by that was when people say "a young franchise player like this never hits the market," it usually leads to a massive overpayment. Cutler's value>>>Versteeg's value. I don't think the Lightning or anyone who gets Versteeg is going to be fleeced like the Bears were.

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03-02-2010, 11:41 AM
  #106
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The delusion that a team can just say "cap space" and no other team will try to outbid them for a Chicago asset again rears its ugly, silly head.

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03-02-2010, 11:42 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post
No, dufus....I didnt ask what team wanted him, I asked what team is gonna offer you better for him than Tampa. Im sure every freakin team in the league would like the kid.

My guess is you wont get much (if any) better than Tampa's 1st and Tanguay.
All the teams mentioned above could put up a similar or even better offer.

If I'm Bowman I'm looking at young RFAs, prospects and picks..

I'm not Bowman and I'm not an NHL scout so I really cant speak on behalf of what Bowman and the Hawks scouts are thinking and the direction they are going with this..

I could find a better deal out their then Tampas deal though.

Also, it all depends on how bad a team wants Versteeg.

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03-02-2010, 11:43 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
You ever watch Versteeg play??

This kid is no fluke, he tries things on the ice only elite players try.

Too bad the Hawks have to trade him, I would be opposed to trading him if the Hawks didn't have to.

Whoever gets Versteeg is getting an excellent young exciting top 6 player..
I'm a fan of the kid... but you seriously Overrate Versteeg... you talk like you are trading the next NHL superstar... the kid is good... but no star on his own...

I agree with the last part of your quote he will be a fun to watch top 6 player... as for the rest... not so much

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03-02-2010, 11:43 AM
  #109
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I don't understand how Versteeg is suppose to be hauling in this much value. He is a good young player with a higher ceiling than the 33 pts he has on the season. But a would be top 10 pick, blue chip prospect, and Tanguay? Come on

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03-02-2010, 11:48 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
I don't understand how Versteeg is suppose to be hauling in this much value. He is a good young player with a higher ceiling than the 33 pts he has on the season. But a would be top 10 pick, blue chip prospect, and Tanguay? Come on
If you want a guy who already is a great NHLer, you probably want to give up a bunch more than a couple of pieces that maybe, if you are lucky, could be as good as him someday.

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03-02-2010, 11:56 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Thundermare View Post
I'm a fan of the kid... but you seriously Overrate Versteeg... you talk like you are trading the next NHL superstar... the kid is good... but no star on his own...

I agree with the last part of your quote he will be a fun to watch top 6 player... as for the rest... not so much
The kid has the skill set to be a star on his own... Thats why he only has 33 damn points this season.. He needs an environment where he can get 18-20 minutes a game..

The kid is a primary scorer/playmaker..

Yes the kid is a little rough around the edges but when he improves what needs improving the kid could possibly be a superstar.

Besides I think people are overrating draft picks anyways..

Draft picks and prospects are like scratch off lottery tickets.

Besides Lawton and his scouting staff are the the people who ultimately decide what Versteeg is worth to Tampa Bay..

All I'm saying is Versteeg is worth more then a rental and a CHANCE to draft another Versteeg..

Would you be happy if you used that first round pick and ended up with a Versteeg clone??? Sure you would but what are the chances of you guys drafting a guy like Versteeg [or a player on his level] with that 1st round pick??? 50/50????

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03-02-2010, 12:00 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Mealman View Post
Yes they were. Both players were top three picks, one first overall, in two deep drafts. The level of fail was almost impossible, yet, Tallon wanted Staal over Toews, which would have been a huge mistake, not taking anything away from Staal, but after the olympics, Toews is looking to be the jewel of his draft class by not a small margin, but a huge one.


Um....ok?
And Tallon would have been out of a job, wait.......
Tallon can draft wisely and still lose his job on account of his mental shortcomings reguardless, so either way Tallon is pimped for naught because if he really was the brains behind the resurgeance of the Blackhawks, he would have had numerous offers to turn a few franchises around that could use a make over instead of getting a generic title to rock a lazyboy at home for the Hawks.

This makes no sense at all. Tallons actual body of work is backed up by numerous avenues of others peoples talents, Dumas being his main cog.If Tallon was behind the Hawks drafts, then with the exception of the gimmie top three picks a casual fan could have taken if they watched current film, they would have be glorious busts like the decades of ineptitude the Hawks have had.Tallon was a company guy, a puppet, a friggin color commentator who offered nothing but a zing one liner here and there, he had no idea how to run a hockey roster if he didnt rely on the experience of others. His willingness to allow others to do their job was/is his biggest strength, while he took all the credit.

Thats the truth about Tallon. His over riding Ladd for Barker, the next Potvin is testimonial enough that he had very little knowledge about talent evaluation, and stuck to the trust in somebody who actually knew what to look for.

And P.S, if you think for one second that if Staal and Toews were on the board that Toews would have still been a Hawk, you have no clue nor know your actual Blackhawk facts.

Yes there is.

Crosby was such a gimmie pick that the NHL made stips for every team to have a chance to draft him. It was rigged, but still.
OV was a gimmie, Malkin, gimmie, Toews a gimmie, just two teams stupid enough to pass on him.

lol, Daigle was head and shoulders the best player going into that draft, with teams trying to trade up to get him. He was a gimmie pick, its not his teams fault he lost the desire to play, Stefan was the biggest question mark in a garbage draft, but his size and the fact he played NA hockey made him a gimmie pick.

So right there, you fail. Nobody passes on what many consider top prospects or drafts people with the expectation that they fail...with the small exception of the Blackhawks 90's drafts which have to be the worst in NHL history.

Scouting and development have increased by leaps and bounds since Daigle days. As you can see, most top ten picks are hits in this day and age and the only top three pick I would say busted out as of late would be, you guessed it, a Tallon pick, Cameron Barker.


And most Hawk fans are bandwagoners who have no clue, or jaded 300 level clowns who would rather complain then actually appreciate the team they have.

But to put Tallon on god level for the way the Hawks have turned is laughable at best when a year before he became GM he was begging for an extra 50k and meal vouchers to commentate.
I'm not gonna even get into it with you. He's gone and the great Stan Bowman is the GM. But you go ahead and continue to be Mr. Blackhawk sighting chapter and verse your wealth of knowledgeable Blackhawk facts that I have no clue about. BTW who drafted the guy in your avatar?

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Old
03-02-2010, 12:01 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
If you want a guy who already is a great NHLer, you probably want to give up a bunch more than a couple of pieces that maybe, if you are lucky, could be as good as him someday.
Are you really calling Versteeg a GREAT NHLer?

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03-02-2010, 12:05 PM
  #114
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Kid is good, but no way in hell i'd give up Ashton and a first for him.

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03-02-2010, 12:06 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwater13 View Post
I'm not gonna even get into it with you. He's gone and the great Stan Bowman is the GM. But you go ahead and continue to be Mr. Blackhawk sighting chapter and verse your wealth of knowledgeable Blackhawk facts that I have no clue about. BTW who drafted the guy in your avatar?
Michel Dumas, of course.

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03-02-2010, 12:06 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
Are you really calling Versteeg a GREAT NHLer?

Cue pointless semantic debate about the definition of "good" vs. "great" vs. whatever other terms you want to use.

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03-02-2010, 01:48 PM
  #117
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I agree with just about anyone else. I don't see any team in the league giving up one of their top tier prospects AND a top 10 pick for Versteeg. I could be wrong, that's just my opinion.

I'd do the first and Tanguay and even throw in a mid level prospect and if Chicago wants more, this just isn't a deal to make. Simple as that.

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03-02-2010, 01:48 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
I say you're wrong..

If Ashton was so damn great he would be playing in the NHL, but that kid is a couple seasons away before even strapping on the boots for an NHL game.
Wow, quite a statement you might want to reconsider. Where was Versteeg @ Carter's age? Also in Lethbridge. So Versteeg wasn't so hot @ 18 Y.O.. Nor was he a recent #1 pick.

If Versteeg is SO valuable, Chicago wouldn't be looking to move him. But they need to, as i understand it. They want assets that are cap friendly. #1's and recent #1's are such assets and have inherent value that compensates for their unknown quality.

Two expect 2 such assets for Versteeg is simply unreasonable.


Last edited by LastoftheBrunnenG: 03-02-2010 at 01:59 PM.
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03-02-2010, 01:58 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Murderworks View Post
I agree with just about anyone else. I don't see any team in the league giving up one of their top tier prospects AND a top 10 pick for Versteeg. I could be wrong, that's just my opinion.

I'd do the first and Tanguay and even throw in a mid level prospect and if Chicago wants more, this just isn't a deal to make. Simple as that.
In the pre cap NHL you might do this because you'd probably have Versteeg for 8 more years and at less $$$. Now this type of trade is organizational suicide.

Hawksfan2828 assumes that Versteeg will produce when played with Lecavalier. So there is risk involved for Tampa. Tanguay was supposed to click with VL and fortunately Tampa didn't have to waste it's two best assets to find out how wrong that turned out. Tanguay had a vastly superior pedigree than Versteeg.

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03-02-2010, 02:30 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by LastoftheBrunnenG View Post
In the pre cap NHL you might do this because you'd probably have Versteeg for 8 more years and at less $$$. Now this type of trade is organizational suicide.

Hawksfan2828 assumes that Versteeg will produce when played with Lecavalier. So there is risk involved for Tampa. Tanguay was supposed to click with VL and fortunately Tampa didn't have to waste it's two best assets to find out how wrong that turned out. Tanguay had a vastly superior pedigree than Versteeg.

First, I 100% agree that Ashton & 1st is a significant overpayment for Versteeg. No way that TB should make that deal.

I just have a problem with "Tanguay had a vastly superior pedigree than Versteeg." While that's true - Tanguay has been in the league for 10 years - shouldn't he have a better pedigree than a 2nd year guy like Versteeg? And since Tanguay is a pure 20 game rental, compared him to a guy with 2 years left on his contract, and will be a RFA at that point, that comparison is really skewed IMO.

Given icetime the top 2 lines get in TB, and with the talent he'd be playing with, I'd really expect a 25/30g, 60+ point performance from Versteeg.

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03-02-2010, 03:25 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Mealman View Post
Barker was all Tallon.
Yeah there is no doubt about that.

I agree with your standpoint on Tallon in the notion where you slated him as merely "a puppet." I like that, very fitting.

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03-02-2010, 03:26 PM
  #122
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IMO that sounds like pretty good value for Versteeg. He has put up some good points and I see why basically any team would want a him on their roster. But, he has had some very sub-par performances this year, and last year in the playoffs he just looked weak on the puck.

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03-02-2010, 05:45 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by LastoftheBrunnenG View Post

If Versteeg is SO valuable, Chicago wouldn't be looking to move him. But they need to, as i understand it. They want assets that are cap friendly. #1's and recent #1's are such assets and have inherent value that compensates for their unknown quality.
They don't actually need to move anyone; but it sort of seems to work out as a matter where you can see what others are willing to give for him -as opposed to letting other teams submit offer sheets to him that he chooses to sign -or more along the lines of the team getting to choose the compensation, before letting any RFA go out there and see what deal they can get with whom (and thereby in effect choose the compensation -for the team).

It is about as good of a position as the Chicago GM will ever have in this sort of situation.

___

While I don't want Tanguay (which isn't a slight on Tanguay, but more along the lines of I think there are already players within the system that could contribute at least as much as him now -so there is no reason to take him on)... whatever happens works. If nothing happens, then that works as well.

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03-02-2010, 06:09 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
All the teams mentioned above could put up a similar or even better offer.

If I'm Bowman I'm looking at young RFAs, prospects and picks..

I'm not Bowman and I'm not an NHL scout so I really cant speak on behalf of what Bowman and the Hawks scouts are thinking and the direction they are going with this..

I could find a better deal out their then Tampas deal though.

Also, it all depends on how bad a team wants Versteeg.
How do you know?

What do you and Tallon have in common? Neither of you are a GM in the NHL. Thanks, though.

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03-02-2010, 06:51 PM
  #125
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if anything at all, Versteeg would be traded for picks. The Hawks cant afford to take back salary. Especially if they plan on trading for a goalie.

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