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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

USA at the 2010 World Championship

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Old
05-11-2010, 11:30 AM
  #451
NeverGoingToWin
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Originally Posted by Sovand View Post
There are NO excuses for the effort the American players have shown so far. I don't care if it's a team of third liners, they are still fulltime proffesional NHL players. Jesus Christ, among the apparent superstars that the Danish coaching staff has picked from the wooping 1,719 in total male players in the country, Denmark has Stefan Lassen who works in a bank and playes hockey after work and Jesper Duus, 42 years old, playing in the Danish league, playing big minutes, and a grand total of 2 fulltime NHL playes, (Eller and Larsen have only played 7 and 2 NHL games respectively). Ohh, you have to play Clemmensen, poor you, while we have a 20-year old from the Danish league who have never played in a international tournament before, and a 24 year old who playes in the Swedish tier II, and let in 10 goals against Sweden. Lucky us!!!

Enough with the excuses - a USA team should be able to come up with a much better showing, regardles of ice size, lack of chemistry, not having their best players, etc..

All the times through the last 8 years where we have suffered 10-1, 12-2, 8-0, and so on-defeats in the WC, you haven't seen us complain about all those crap details. When Sweden beat us 10-3 last week, we didn't excuse ourselves with poor chemistry, lack of stars (Hansen, Bødker, Regin, Green didn't play), and countless other excuses but blamed only ourselves. In the intermission between the 1st and 2nd period against Finland for example, all Frans Nielsen cared about was the lack of discipline by the Danes in the final 10 minutes of the period, even though we were leading, and he was furious about it.

Quit whining and play hockey, please.
This is the US thread. It is not whining when it is true. Go away.

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05-11-2010, 11:30 AM
  #452
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there are definitely some upset people on here...and plenty of haters as well....haters gotta hate I guess?

with all things being considered, I am still not that upset..YET. I feel this team will rebound and beat Finland for a couple of reasons.

First off, I think Finland actually matches up a bit better then Germany and Denmark have. Teams that have a little more NHL talent tend to play a tad bit more "open minded" or less full on death trap hockey. After watching both games, it is just apparent that those two teams are ugly teams to play against. They block everything and have very little transition game which doesn't lead to many opportunities. I am not ripping on either Germany or Denmark as I feel what they did is tremendous, but for whatever the reason, I feel more comfortable playing against a Finland squad then the others.

To put it in more perspective, when the Blackhawks played Nashville in the first round, I was completely and utterly scared. I felt Nashville is an offensively challenged team that is going to shut you down and make you make the mistakes necessary for them to score. The Hawks had one hell of a time getting by that team, and we all know just how much more talented the Blackhawks were to the Predators. But it shows you just how well team defense and a goalie making the saves that he should make can do for you.

Once I knew the Hawks were going to play Vancouver (who is a better overall team then the Preds), I felt much more at ease knowing that they wont be trapping us and are actually going to try and run and gun it as well. The Hawks havent won the series yet, but imo, it has been much easier to watch then the previous series. When playing against a team that has some actual offensive talent, you know they are going to try and make something happen, which in turn opens up the ice for your better players to make plays happen. That has not happened against these two defensive minded teams.

Look at the Swiss team at the 2010 Olympics. They almost shocked the world by beating Canada...and look how many people wrote off Canada after that performace? How could Canada with such a mighty team need to go to overtime to beat the Swiss? It is simply because of the way the Swiss played THEIR system, and didn't allow Canada to skate, use open ice, or have any transition game at all. Yes Hiller was awesome as well, but all Germany and Denmark needed was for their goalie to make the saves that he was supposed to make, nothing super human.,

The point of all of this is **** happens! It isnt always the best team that wins, and when you are playing a far less talented team, you know you are going to be playing against a tough defensive minded system that isnt going to allow you to play the game the way you want to. With Finland, there will be more open ice and more chances taken. Finland plays a very defensive first system as well, but the difference is in the individual talent that they do have, that will tend to try and create more offensive chances of their own...

I think the US can win this game, and move on and continue to improve with a few additions....if not, then Finland was the better team, and good luck to them. The US has accomplished so much this year that this will not diminish that one way or another. If we have to go to the relegation round, then so be it....hopefully like others have said, this will wake up many of these guys that declined for next year and actually answer the call. Either way, I am proud of what my country has accomplished this year, and I still feel we can battle our way back from the brink.

No excuses here, just writing what I feel...cant wait for tomorrow.

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05-11-2010, 01:36 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
there are definitely some upset people on here...and plenty of haters as well....haters gotta hate I guess?

with all things being considered, I am still not that upset..YET. I feel this team will rebound and beat Finland for a couple of reasons.

First off, I think Finland actually matches up a bit better then Germany and Denmark have. Teams that have a little more NHL talent tend to play a tad bit more "open minded" or less full on death trap hockey. After watching both games, it is just apparent that those two teams are ugly teams to play against. They block everything and have very little transition game which doesn't lead to many opportunities. I am not ripping on either Germany or Denmark as I feel what they did is tremendous, but for whatever the reason, I feel more comfortable playing against a Finland squad then the others.

To put it in more perspective, when the Blackhawks played Nashville in the first round, I was completely and utterly scared. I felt Nashville is an offensively challenged team that is going to shut you down and make you make the mistakes necessary for them to score. The Hawks had one hell of a time getting by that team, and we all know just how much more talented the Blackhawks were to the Predators. But it shows you just how well team defense and a goalie making the saves that he should make can do for you.

Once I knew the Hawks were going to play Vancouver (who is a better overall team then the Preds), I felt much more at ease knowing that they wont be trapping us and are actually going to try and run and gun it as well. The Hawks havent won the series yet, but imo, it has been much easier to watch then the previous series. When playing against a team that has some actual offensive talent, you know they are going to try and make something happen, which in turn opens up the ice for your better players to make plays happen. That has not happened against these two defensive minded teams.

Look at the Swiss team at the 2010 Olympics. They almost shocked the world by beating Canada...and look how many people wrote off Canada after that performace? How could Canada with such a mighty team need to go to overtime to beat the Swiss? It is simply because of the way the Swiss played THEIR system, and didn't allow Canada to skate, use open ice, or have any transition game at all. Yes Hiller was awesome as well, but all Germany and Denmark needed was for their goalie to make the saves that he was supposed to make, nothing super human.,

The point of all of this is **** happens! It isnt always the best team that wins, and when you are playing a far less talented team, you know you are going to be playing against a tough defensive minded system that isnt going to allow you to play the game the way you want to. With Finland, there will be more open ice and more chances taken. Finland plays a very defensive first system as well, but the difference is in the individual talent that they do have, that will tend to try and create more offensive chances of their own...

I think the US can win this game, and move on and continue to improve with a few additions....if not, then Finland was the better team, and good luck to them. The US has accomplished so much this year that this will not diminish that one way or another. If we have to go to the relegation round, then so be it....hopefully like others have said, this will wake up many of these guys that declined for next year and actually answer the call. Either way, I am proud of what my country has accomplished this year, and I still feel we can battle our way back from the brink.

No excuses here, just writing what I feel...cant wait for tomorrow.
Amen, i love American hockey just as much/if not more than Flyers hockey. There is nothing better to bring together Devils/rangers/flyers fans than USA hockey.

Also, I believe the boys will pull it out... question, how far is a plane ride to Germany from Vancouver? Ryan Kesler? YOU NEVER KNOW!! U-S-A huge game tomorow!

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05-11-2010, 01:54 PM
  #454
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Any reason why the 5 best players on this team aren't scoring goals or being more pro active like Canada's players?

Ok, yeh, it's chemistry, but some or several these guys played together in the Juniors and the USNTP there should be some chemistry right?

Maybe the coach isn't good enough?

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05-11-2010, 01:57 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
Any reason why the 5 best players on this team aren't scoring goals or being more pro active like Canada's players?

Ok, yeh, it's chemistry, but some or several these guys played together in the Juniors and the USNTP there should be some chemistry right?

Maybe the coach isn't good enough?
Maybe the team just isn't very good regardless of NHL talent?

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05-11-2010, 02:07 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
Any reason why the 5 best players on this team aren't scoring goals or being more pro active like Canada's players?

Ok, yeh, it's chemistry, but some or several these guys played together in the Juniors and the USNTP there should be some chemistry right?

Maybe the coach isn't good enough?
Hmm... maybe years ago? Thats like saying Mark Recchi still has chemistry with Gagne. Not safe to say.

Alot of the players developed and changed there game since juniors. If your telling me these guys havent changed and havent adjusted there games since then youd be lieing.

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05-11-2010, 02:08 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
Any reason why the 5 best players on this team aren't scoring goals or being more pro active like Canada's players?

Ok, yeh, it's chemistry, but some or several these guys played together in the Juniors and the USNTP there should be some chemistry right?

Maybe the coach isn't good enough?
And werent you the one who wanted to stop bringin up other teams?

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05-11-2010, 02:28 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
Any reason why the 5 best players on this team aren't scoring goals or being more pro active like Canada's players?

Ok, yeh, it's chemistry, but some or several these guys played together in the Juniors and the USNTP there should be some chemistry right?

Maybe the coach isn't good enough?

Because Canada's 5 best forwards are better than our 5 best forwards in this tournament?

It's hard to say. Did they even had chemistry when they did play together previously? Did it carry over if they did since they're not the same players they once were?

I think the biggest thing, and what most of us feared, is that the forward scoring talent on this team didn't have much depth at all and if Okposo, Oshie, Dubinsky and Galiardi struggled, we'd be in a fight just to be in games, let alone winning them. That has proved to be correct so far.

I'm more than disappointed that the coaching staff didn't switch up the lines in the Denmark game to try and find some chemistry or to just spark the team. Even if it didn't work, it's been clear the lines aren't working so sticking with them wasn't going to solve much. Gordon and Sacco should know better because they've been at this tournament before (both as coaches and a player in Sacco's case I believe) so they should understand the urgency that is needed.

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05-11-2010, 02:42 PM
  #459
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And werent you the one who wanted to stop bringin up other teams?
It was one reference. I believe both teams are in the same situation, so I compare them. It was mostly about America the post. Stop changing the topic seriously.

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Because Canada's 5 best forwards are better than our 5 best forwards in this tournament?

It's hard to say. Did they even had chemistry when they did play together previously? Did it carry over if they did since they're not the same players they once were?

I think the biggest thing, and what most of us feared, is that the forward scoring talent on this team didn't have much depth at all and if Okposo, Oshie, Dubinsky and Galiardi struggled, we'd be in a fight just to be in games, let alone winning them. That has proved to be correct so far.

I'm more than disappointed that the coaching staff didn't switch up the lines in the Denmark game to try and find some chemistry or to just spark the team. Even if it didn't work, it's been clear the lines aren't working so sticking with them wasn't going to solve much. Gordon and Sacco should know better because they've been at this tournament before (both as coaches and a player in Sacco's case I believe) so they should understand the urgency that is needed.
I don't know, I'm as a bit shocked as you are. I mean I didn't expect much from this team. I knew that that they wouldn't be striding, but I expected at least the guys who have made a name for them self in the NHL to step it up individually if the team isn't doing anything. That makes me a little shocked. In the past Kessel, Parise and Kane did alright as a team, but they stepped up here and there.

Who knows, perhaps it's just too early to tell, The US could make a jump back and push a little harder, so I wouldn't call this team a complete bust yet. I have a feeling the team might play harder all the way into the second round, but I'm not sure.

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05-11-2010, 02:48 PM
  #460
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I don't know, I'm as a bit shocked as you are. I mean I didn't expect much from this team. I knew that that they wouldn't be striding, but I expected at least the guys who have made a name for them self in the NHL to step it up individually if the team isn't doing anything. That makes me a little shocked. In the past Kessel, Parise and Kane didn't did alright as a team, but they stepped up here and there.

Who knows, perhaps it's just too early to tell, The US could make a jump back and push a little harder, so I wouldn't call this team a complete bust yet. I have a feeling the team might play harder all the way into the second round, but I'm not sure.
I think one thing to also remember is the main 4 guys we're counting on for scoring (Okposo, Oshie, Dubi, Galiardi) are all mostly young and inexperienced, which plays into the biggest thing that they're all still wildly inconsistent. They could still turn it around, hopefully starting tomorrow, but it's hard to say with this group. Okposo or Oshie or Dubi could turn it on and dominate tomorrow (which we've all seen them do in the NHL before) and help ease a lot of fears about this team but the issue with them is they haven't yet in the careers found a way to bring that every shift/game.

We just need some of the forwards outside of Foligno and the 4th line to consistently put pressure on in the offensive zone. Hopefully as AmericanDream also said that playing Finland, with a familiar style, will help as well.

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05-11-2010, 05:34 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
It was one reference. I believe both teams are in the same situation, so I compare them. It was mostly about America the post. Stop changing the topic seriously.


I don't know, I'm as a bit shocked as you are. I mean I didn't expect much from this team. I knew that that they wouldn't be striding, but I expected at least the guys who have made a name for them self in the NHL to step it up individually if the team isn't doing anything. That makes me a little shocked. In the past Kessel, Parise and Kane did alright as a team, but they stepped up here and there.

Who knows, perhaps it's just too early to tell, The US could make a jump back and push a little harder, so I wouldn't call this team a complete bust yet. I have a feeling the team might play harder all the way into the second round, but I'm not sure.
How did i change the subject? I replied and made an american point, and than posted anpther comment.

I still truly believe they will bounce back tomorrow.


Last edited by William H Bonney: 05-11-2010 at 11:23 PM. Reason: No name calling
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05-11-2010, 06:10 PM
  #462
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No rules against none americans from posting here.

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05-11-2010, 06:15 PM
  #463
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No rules against none americans from posting here.
Yea, we know. All were asking is for alittle respect on Bashing our team.

Listen, We know our team is underperforming and is on the verge of getting relegated. Yours and Ileyus posts are fine, just it sucks hearing how bad we are.

We also know that Finland is a must win..

GET RYAN CARTER, CHRISTIAN HANSON, AND CHRIS KREIDER MORE ICE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nick Foligno, once again.. like him or not.. he always is pumped about representing America... America needs more guys like him.. Go nick!

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05-11-2010, 06:32 PM
  #464
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To be slightly OT...

Is the IIHF Website completely worthless or am I just not operating the internets right? Seems like none of the links work.

Anyone?

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05-11-2010, 06:38 PM
  #465
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To be slightly OT...

Is the IIHF Website completely worthless or am I just not operating the internets right? Seems like none of the links work.

Anyone?
A little bit of both, the links usually work.. Most of the articles on there are not very good though.. lol

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05-11-2010, 06:42 PM
  #466
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A little bit of both, the links usually work.. Most of the articles on there are not very good though.. lol
Unfortunately, I can still get the articles. But the schedule and stat links have been dead for the last hour or so.


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05-11-2010, 11:20 PM
  #467
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If the moderators of this forum saw something wrong with me posting in this forum, I think they would tell me. I'm not sure what my discussing the US has anything to do with me.

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Yea, we know. All were asking is for alittle respect on Bashing our team.
No one's bashing your team, that's why you're changing the topic.

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05-12-2010, 03:26 PM
  #468
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Well too bad. Still proud of my boys. Awesome year for US hockey.

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05-12-2010, 03:33 PM
  #469
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Well too bad. Still proud of my boys. Awesome year for US hockey.
Can't agree with you there, respectfully. We lost to Germany, Denmark, and Finland's "C" squad, I don't see much to be proud of. I revert back to my (and many others') original premise that Burke jumped the gun in naming this squad. There were a lot of guys who didn't belong here, and I think it hurt us. Our top guys didn't play well, but we didn't have enough talent behind them to cover for that. And I blame Burke for rushing to offer spots to anyone who would accept one regardless of whether they were good enough.

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05-12-2010, 03:39 PM
  #470
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Can't agree with you there, respectfully. We lost to Germany, Denmark, and Finland's "C" squad, I don't see much to be proud of. I revert back to my (and many others') original premise that Burke jumped the gun in naming this squad. There were a lot of guys who didn't belong here, and I think it hurt us. Our top guys didn't play well, but we didn't have enough talent behind them to cover for that. And I blame Burke for rushing to offer spots to anyone who would accept one regardless of whether they were good enough.
What forwards wanted to come that didnt get invited?

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05-12-2010, 03:47 PM
  #471
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Can't agree with you there, respectfully. We lost to Germany, Denmark, and Finland's "C" squad, I don't see much to be proud of. I revert back to my (and many others') original premise that Burke jumped the gun in naming this squad. There were a lot of guys who didn't belong here, and I think it hurt us. Our top guys didn't play well, but we didn't have enough talent behind them to cover for that. And I blame Burke for rushing to offer spots to anyone who would accept one regardless of whether they were good enough.
But shouldn't every guy who plays in the NHL be "good enough" to play against teams of guys who for the most part play in the third strongest European League (and lower)?

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05-12-2010, 03:55 PM
  #472
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But shouldn't every guy who plays in the NHL be "good enough" to play against teams of guys who for the most part play in the third strongest European League (and lower)?
3rd/4th line players? The US was an ok team but they didnt click offensively.

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05-12-2010, 04:01 PM
  #473
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Obviously this wasn't our most talented team. There are only 5 guys that would ever get olympic consideration (Johnson, Yandle, Dubinsky, Okposo and Oshie). Problem was that Okposo, Dubi, Oshie are young players who can be inconsistent at times. When they struggled the team is basically screwed because it is not a deep team.

It was disappointing I still thought they could of played better and just been more physical and outwork the other team. There really wasn't any chemistry on the team.

Cant really get on Burke. I'm sure he reached out but got a lot of rejections. Hopefully it wasn't because some players were bitter because they didn't make the olympic team. Connolly, Stafford, Pominville, Umberger and Backes should of played.

Oh well still a great year for US Hockey winning the world juniors and a silver in the olympics.

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05-12-2010, 04:07 PM
  #474
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What forwards wanted to come that didnt get invited?
Here are some forwards that I don't recall hearing anything about being invited but are better than some of the guys we took: Connolly, Pomminville, Stafford, Cullen, Legwand, Schremp, and Stempniak. If any of them were invited and turned it down and I just never heard about it, forgive me. Don't remember hearing anything about Mueller being invited, but under the circumstances that's not unexpected. Have only a vague recollection about Gaustad being invited.

The rush to name defensemen like Hillen, Gilroy, and Chorney to the team meant we had to leave a few guys at home whose NHL teams lost in the first round. I don't remember hearing anything about Scuderi, Liles, or Corvo being invited. And I don't recall hearing anything about Niskanen or Wiesnewski being invited. I'd take either of those guys over Chorney, and they didn't make the playoffs the same as him. You can make the case that it might be worth leaving an older but better player like Liles at home in order to give a young guy like Chorney a chance to show what he can do. But in hindsight, that may not have been the best idea.

Again, if any of those guys were invited but declined, I simply did not hear about it. But if they weren't invited, then this tournament looks like an even bigger failure than it already is.

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05-12-2010, 04:11 PM
  #475
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But shouldn't every guy who plays in the NHL be "good enough" to play against teams of guys who for the most part play in the third strongest European League (and lower)?
Obviously not.

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