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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Russia 2014 solution: citizenship plus $$$ for NA players to play for Russian NT...

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Old
03-02-2010, 03:03 PM
  #26
Bingo Sens
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if true that's hilarious. I almost hope the Russians trounce us in Sochi just so Russia won't implode in a mass of disapointment and frustration

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03-02-2010, 03:06 PM
  #27
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this is okay for women's basketball. and even then, Becky Hammond got a ton of **** for it. the hockey player, would get infinitely more.

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Old
03-02-2010, 03:17 PM
  #28
ronnyweed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladsky View Post
...and I am not talking about marginal players like Darcy Verot.

I can easily imagine this happening, with Russian Hockey Federation going after decent Canada or US D-men, who would make 2nd or 3rd teams in their respective countries. While this will not cure all of their current and inevitable future defensive pains, Russia may still become stronger at the blueline.

Changing nationalities (only as a formality, they would still keep their original citizenship) is not uncommon in other sports. This year, a Russian-born female biathlete won Olympic gold for Slovakia, and I remember a Nordic-born skier racing for Spain some years ago. And there are more than a few cases in international soccer (mostly involving African or LA players).

Would such thing be possible? Discuss.
major problem with your theory... alot of these marginal players you speak of wear the canadian flag with pride in the world championship, making them ineligable to play for russia in 2014

hamhuis and even ian white type players have played for canada at the international level

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Old
03-02-2010, 03:18 PM
  #29
thomasincanada
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A bit of a dramatic reaction IMO.

They don't need a non-russian head coach, but it might be a good idea to have an outsider come in as an assistant coach and teach these guys better team D. As for Russia not having any good defensemen.. that is probably true but if you implement a good system (see Switzerland) it can help make up for not having any Doughty-like defensemen in their system.

Anyways, I do think the Russians will fare a lot better on a big ice in Russia. I think it's premature to write them off after one bad game.

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Old
03-02-2010, 03:32 PM
  #30
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1) Most of the top players who Russia would try to attract likely would have already played for their country, either at the WJC or World Championships.

2) Most players respect their nation and wouldn't take money and citizenship - which they likely don't need and would never use - just to play in a two week tournament.

3) If the IOC could prove that Russia was luring athletes by paying them and offering bogus VISAS, there would be heavy sanctions levied.

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Old
03-02-2010, 03:32 PM
  #31
wetcoastwhale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
I would hope that the people of Russia would be opposed to any suggestion of doing anything like this. I know as a Canadian, I'd be embarrassed if we did this in hockey.

It's a pretty good bet that the Russians are not going to win Gold in their own country. Their defense is horrible, and only going to get worse as I don't see any 'great' defensemen coming up through the ranks. They'll still have a rather potent offense however.

I look forward to Canada vs USA (Part III) in Sochi.
Well, looking at recent history, it is unlikely that either Canada or the US will be on the podium, as NA hockey doesn't do so well on the larger ice surface. Its a different game, and other countries do it better than Canada or the US.

I would think Russia and Sweden will have a much better shot at gold.

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03-02-2010, 03:56 PM
  #32
Uhmkay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wetcoastwhale View Post
Well, looking at recent history, it is unlikely that either Canada or the US will be on the podium, as NA hockey doesn't do so well on the larger ice surface. Its a different game, and other countries do it better than Canada or the US.

I would think Russia and Sweden will have a much better shot at gold.
How do you figure? Of the 3 olympics that have been played on the larger ice surface since NHL Players have been allowed to play, Canada has won 1 of the 3. In the Nagano olympics we were running through everyone until we came across Hasek and lost to the eventual Champs.

Russia has done far worse than Canada on the larger ice surfaces in the last 4 olympics, and it could be argued that they're going to be worse off in 4 more years. Sweden is also going to be losing some of their better players. The World Championships don't mean anything, as has been argued over and over in past threads as they're not a best on best tournament, and I think Canadians have shown through history that they are very capable of adapting to the larger ice and still winning (IE: Summit Series, World Jrs, Olympics '02, etc).

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Old
03-02-2010, 03:59 PM
  #33
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This is a total over reaction to a very short and crazy tournament.

Russian hockey is not in trouble, not even close. They didn't manage to gel in the 4 games that they had, this is not strange. Canada couldn't do it in 2006 and people thought that they picked the problem or something like that. Russia had the talent, they had the coaches, etc, they just didn't find the chemistry.

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Old
03-02-2010, 04:05 PM
  #34
Zine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhmkay View Post
Russia has done far worse than Canada on the larger ice surfaces in the last 4 olympics, and it could be argued that they're going to be worse off in 4 more years. Sweden is also going to be losing some of their better players. The World Championships don't mean anything, as has been argued over and over in past threads as they're not a best on best tournament, and I think Canadians have shown through history that they are very capable of adapting to the larger ice and still winning (IE: Summit Series, World Jrs, Olympics '02, etc).
Not really.

On olympic big ice Canada has finished 4th, 1st and 8th with 1 medal (gold).
Russia has finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th with 2 medals (silver, bronze).

Everybody has a chance of winning, but Canada's chances are significantly reduced on big ice.

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Old
03-02-2010, 04:08 PM
  #35
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Enough good counterarguments already to close this thread.

But...

As a Russian, I can easily put myself in the shoes of a Russian hockey boss. Just imagine:

- It is 2012, and I have my @$$ on the line to win Sochi gold (or, at least, to medal)
- Russia has just been badly beaten in 2011 WCOH semis by USA
- D is the root cause of the problem
- Zubov has just retired, Gonchar is in decline, and the rest of Russian D corps outside of Markov-Volch duo has been terrible lately, and are unlikely to improve
- I managed to hire ... (insert the name your favourite NHL coach) to prepare the Russian team for the Olympic hockey event, the team's defensive play has improved a notch, but this still does not solve the problem
- I have all the money in the world to spend on getting the team ready
- My idea to lure a couple of decent NHL D-men is supported at the highest level, and I don't give **** regarding what an average Russian hockey fan thinks about it.

In this situation, I would go after anyone who is decent and eligible. You may not believe it, but such scenario IS possible.


Last edited by Vladsky: 03-02-2010 at 04:13 PM.
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Old
03-02-2010, 04:11 PM
  #36
Harv
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Didn't this already happen by Canadian players getting German citizenship to play for Germany this year?

I know it's not them getting paid, but the purposly got German citizenship to play for the German team.

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Old
03-02-2010, 04:13 PM
  #37
NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Not really.

On olympic big ice Canada has finished 4th, 1st and 8th with 1 medal (gold).
Russia has finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th with 2 medals (silver, bronze).

Everybody has a chance of winning, but Canada's chances are significantly reduced on big ice.
Seems on big ice they lose one then win one. Therefore next time on the big ice they are up for a win

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Old
03-02-2010, 04:18 PM
  #38
Zine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladsky View Post
Enough good counterarguments already to close this thread.

But...

As a Russian, I can easily put myself in the shoes of a Russian hockey boss. Just imagine:

- It is 2012, and I have my @$$ on the line to win Sochi gold (or, at least, to medal)
- Russia has just been badly beaten in 2011 WCOH semis by USA
- D is the root cause of the problem
- Zubov has just retired, Gonchar is in decline, and the rest of Russian D corps outside of Markov-Volch duo has been terrible lately, and are unlikely to improve
- I managed to hire ... (insert the name your favourite NHL coach) to prepare the Russian team for the Olympic hockey event, the team's defensive play has improved a notch, but this still does not solve the problem
- I have all the money in the world to spend on getting the team ready
- My idea to lure a couple of decent NHL D-men is supported at the highest level, and I don't give **** regarding what an average Russian hockey fan thinks about it.

In this situation, I would go after anyone who is decent and eligible. You may not believe it, but such scenario IS possible.
I don't think the d-core will be in that bad of shape if the young guys develop as expected.


Markov
Volchenkov

Nikulin ?
Tyutin ?
Grebeshkov ?
Korneev ?
Goncharov
Kulikov
Voinov
Chudinov ?
Orlov
Marchenko ?

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Old
03-02-2010, 04:18 PM
  #39
NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladsky View Post
Enough good counterarguments already to close this thread.

But...

As a Russian, I can easily put myself in the shoes of a Russian hockey boss. Just imagine:

- It is 2012, and I have my @$$ on the line to win Sochi gold (or, at least, to medal)
- Russia has just been badly beaten in 2011 WCOH semis by USA
- D is the root cause of the problem
- Zubov has just retired, Gonchar is in decline, and the rest of Russian D corps outside of Markov-Volch duo has been terrible lately, and are unlikely to improve
- I managed to hire ... (insert the name your favourite NHL coach) to prepare the Russian team for the Olympic hockey event, the team's defensive play has improved a notch, but this still does not solve the problem
- I have all the money in the world to spend on getting the team ready
- My idea to lure a couple of decent NHL D-men is supported at the highest level, and I don't give **** regarding what an average Russian hockey fan thinks about it.

In this situation, I would go after anyone who is decent and eligible. You may not believe it, but such scenario IS possible.
I bring in the obvious superstars Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Semin, Kovalchuk, Malkin. Then take a bunch of fast skating checkers and pluggers from the KHL (assuming a player such as this exists) eg Chubarov or Nikolishin. Play the trap the whole tournament.

The Swiss and Norway and Germany have little offensive talent but kept games close by playing defensively strong and making the most of their counter attack. Russia playing the same way and counter attacking with their allstars would be much better.

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Old
03-02-2010, 04:40 PM
  #40
MaxV
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This needs to stop. They lost one game to the best team in the tournament.

Who did the Swedes lose to in the Quarters?

I don't see the same IDIOTIC threads being made about them.

Russian hockey is just FINE. It's just future National Team roster selections MUST be made to be more balanced, rather then just bringing all the "top names."

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Old
03-02-2010, 04:48 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladsky View Post
- It is 2012, and I have my @$$ on the line to win Sochi gold (or, at least, to medal)
-

In this situation, I would go after anyone who is decent and eligible. You may not believe it, but such scenario IS possible.
2012 is too late. If they are not in the KHL already, no one is eligible.

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Old
03-02-2010, 04:50 PM
  #42
NyQuil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Not really.

On olympic big ice Canada has finished 4th, 1st and 8th with 1 medal (gold).
Russia has finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th with 2 medals (silver, bronze).

Everybody has a chance of winning, but Canada's chances are significantly reduced on big ice.
That's a pretty small sample size there, Professor.

The only difference really on big ice is that Russia had one semi-final more than Canada.

Plus, it's hard to differentiate between the "ice surface" and simply the atmosphere of being at home.

I'm not sure if it's so much Canada's chances being reduced as much as it is Russia's chances increase, particularly if they keep the same coaching philosophy going.

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Old
03-02-2010, 05:04 PM
  #43
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They should just let Canada team B become Russia so then Canadians would have their wish... to bring 2 Canadian teams in international play

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Old
03-02-2010, 05:11 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Why is that so unthinkable? The Swiss already did it and got good results from it, the Canadian coach took team Canada to a shootout.

This happens in other sports all the time, football/soccer is one example of many (Hiddink in South Korea would be a good analogy).

I think Russia needs at least one North American coach, a better defence and less KHL players (duh). Perhaps a bit more accountability as well, but by 2014 you'd imagine Ovechkin and Malkin will have matured somewhat.
The Swiss situation is totally different. Those players play and live in Switzerland. What the OP is suggesting is more akin to poaching.

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Old
03-02-2010, 05:13 PM
  #45
Fish on The Sand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxV View Post
This needs to stop. They lost one game to the best team in the tournament.

Who did the Swedes lose to in the Quarters?

I don't see the same IDIOTIC threads being made about them.

Russian hockey is just FINE. It's just future National Team roster selections MUST be made to be more balanced, rather then just bringing all the "top names."
The Swedes lost to the same team in the quarters that beat Russia in the prelims.


Last edited by Fish on The Sand: 03-02-2010 at 06:07 PM.
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Old
03-02-2010, 05:16 PM
  #46
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This might work for Russia's women's team...


There is a Japanese pairs figure skater (Yuko Kavaguti) who became a Russian citizen to improve her Olympic chances. So, it's not unheard of. But the idea of defecting to Russia sounds crazy...


Last edited by JacketsFanWest: 03-02-2010 at 05:22 PM.
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Old
03-02-2010, 05:16 PM
  #47
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Maybe they should have let Korneev and Emelin come to the Habs. Maybe they would be decent top 4 by now.

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Old
03-02-2010, 05:24 PM
  #48
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Canada finished 7th in Torino, yet I don't recall cries after those games to get Swedish hockey coaches to come over here and help Canada straighten out its team for Vancouver. Can you imagine the outcry if it were even suggested?

Russia's fine, get off their back. 2014 will be their style game to go with their big ice, and their fans in the seats.

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Old
03-02-2010, 05:27 PM
  #49
RandV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harv View Post
Didn't this already happen by Canadian players getting German citizenship to play for Germany this year?

I know it's not them getting paid, but the purposly got German citizenship to play for the German team.
Yes but these case in Germany and Swizterland are actually legitimate. They are Canadian born hockey players who either couldn't cut it at the professional level here or found better offers over there, so completely up and relocated to a new country, later applying for citizenship. Any kids they may have will likely be Swiss/German citizens, and should they play hockey wear those colours.

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Old
03-02-2010, 05:33 PM
  #50
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I think Russia would be hard pressed to find any Canadian/American/Finnish/Swedish/ who are good enough to play for Russia to switch for Russia. This stuff happens in international soccer, but there is a tangible benefit to those players who take passports from EU countries (being considered a domestic player in most leagues in Europe, more options and money to be made). I am just curious what benefit does a Russian passport offer to entice players?

Just stick to poaching players from Ukraine

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